New X-COM Announced

[Thorondor]

To quote an "outsider's" view:

 

[quoting Mr.Michael Smith, Avault E3 Coverage, XCOM impressions]

 

2K Games caused something of an uproar in classic gaming circles when it announced that PC squad-based strategy legend X-COM: UFO Defense was being turned into a first-person shooter for the upcoming XCOM. Not being tainted by any of that talk (I never played the original game), I found the reimagining to be a combination of a 1950s-style art aesthetic and some engaging shooter gameplay. For the uninitiated, you are part of a secret mid-20th-century American intelligence unit tasked with investigating the unknown after a mysterious artifact is discovered and is later identified as alien in origin. Not only do you hit the road with two AI teammates to eliminate the alien threat, but you also take pictures of unusual objects and creatures so that the boffins back at HQ can devise a way to use them to defeat the invaders. PC gaming loyalists should put away their torches and pitchforks and check out this combination of fear, strategy and shooter elements when XCOM is released in 2011 for the PC and the Xbox 360.

::

 

Enough talk. Now it's pitchfork time, bubba!

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Doom III didn't really "contradict" the original Doom, it was basically a re-iteration with more detail. More to the point though, the original Doom was an FPS where you killed demons in a space colony on mars, and the third Doom was an FPS where you killed demons in a space colony on mars.

 

(The second game was essentially the first game but on Earth. With an additional double-barrel shotgun for your arsenal, and one more demon).

 

One thing I like about older games is the lack of DRM, the small size on disk compared to the amount of playtime they provide, and the complete and utter lack of load times. I suspect these things contribute to why the original UFO is typically considered "better" then the all-around better developed Apocalypse.

 

There's also the actual level of depth, or the "pick-up-and-play" rating. The original UFO, the entire campaign will probably be over within the week, and if you take a break for a while it's easy to jump back into things. It takes an age to get anywhere in Apocalypse, and if you haven't played for a while, you'll probably want to start over when you get back to it.

 

I know people complain about games being "dumbed down", but the original struck the perfect balance between "simple" and "user in control" somehow.

[Gimli]

A few things I would like to address:

 

"Remakes are not well received by the fans." Serious Sam HD proves you wrong. Not everyone is happy with everything but people are satisfied for the most part. Whether or not it will cover its costs remains to be seen, but we do know that the first part of SS HD has sold over 100 000 copies, and I think that will be enough to break even, considering everything. I think the Monkey Island remake sold well enough too. Of course, none of this guarantees that a remake of UFO would turn a profit, it really depends on how the remake would be approached. 2D or 3D, realistic physics or not, licensed engine or in-house, size of the development team etc. Just because everyone has a different opinion and may not like some aspect of the game, it doesn't mean that a game is not worth being made. After all, I could name a lot of the original's flaws yet I still play it and I'm sure it's the same case for some other people. I'm also having a lot of fun with the newest version of UFO: AI despite it being inferior to X-COM in some aspects. I'm playing it because it is superior in some other aspects, but most importantly because it's a fun game. I'll have to raise the difficulty though, it's a bit too easy for me on normal.

 

C&C and tank rushes. While this became the norm for later games, the first was better in this regard which is why it's still my favorite of the series. Not only because it had a decent amount of missions where you had no base at all, but also because in some of the missions where you did have bases it was difficult or impossible to do a tank rush. I remember specifically a mission for GDI where the UN cuts your funding and you're stuck with a base that has neither a Construction Yard nor a Weapons Factory. All you're left with is infantry. I tried using grenadiers but they have a nasty effect where the death of each one causes splash damage to the rest of them. They were quickly annihilated. This forced me to come up with a smarter solution. I did the same thing except I also trained some engineers and put them in an APC. The grenadiers served as a diversion and while NOD was busy with killing them, I got engineers into the construction yard and some other buildings and immediately started building turrets. It was over shortly after that.

Another example would be GDI's last mission which requires another coordinated attack (and then pray that NOD doesn't knock out the important buildings). The reason you can't just rush NOD is that you have a very limited amount of Tiberium. You can destroy maybe half the base before losing your tanks, but because NOD has another construction yard and airstrip (both of which need to be destroyed) they'll simply rebuild and you'll lose.

It still could have been done better, but I thought the SP was better than that of Blizzard's games.

 

As for Doom 3. While I found it not to be all that good, I think that the little flying babies were pretty scary. I think the reason they scared me and the rest didn't was because I felt they presented a threat (they were hard to hit).

 

Anyway, I think I've derailed this too much. Like I said, personally I have little interest in this game since I'd like something like the first 3 games. Maybe I'll get the demo if they make one, but I doubt I'm going to get it. Not saying it's bad, it just doesn't interest me.

[Matri]

The Monkey Island "remakes" were basically Monkey Island 4 with a new plot and a tweaked control interface.

 

And Serious Sam HD was a "remake" the exact same way Star Wars Special Edition is a "remake". Nothing in the game was changed, except for the graphics. Every level, every item, every enemy, every spawnpoint, every scripted event... All were faithfully reproduced.

 

Using SS HD to argue for this XCOM game is counterproductive to your argument because it was a 100% faithful reproduction of The First & Second Encounters, whereas this one completely scrapped the mythology in favour of slime.

[Bomb Bloke]

He's not using SS HD to argue for XCOM. He's replying to this:

 

Thanks for posting that SV - I had in my head a vision of the disappointment a straight remake would be. You'd know exactly what to do, exactly what was coming and not even a Chrysalid would scare you. In short, there would be no point - if I want to play a game like the original, I know exactly where it is on my hard drive

Frankly I agree with Pete. There are always gonna be problems with a remake. If it's perfect, it's boring; if it's altered, then it wrecks the canon. I'd much prefer to see a game following on from Apocalypse.

[Matri]

Ahh, I mis-read you then.

[Gimli]

Hehe, that's internet for you.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind a straight up remake, as long as it worked well out of the box on new systems and came with a good set of modding tools.

But even more than that I would like a sequel like the first 3 games.

 

I've been wondering something that is somewhat related. I know there are some who prefer RT to TB in Apocalypse. My question is: would you still play the game if it were TB? I know I prefer TB, but would still play RT if it didn't have TB so I'm wondering if it works the other way around.

[Pete]

I too would prefer any new XCOM game to be something following on from the style of the first three and the history developed over the first four () but we'll see what this turns out like.

 

Ah, the old TB vs RT Apoc - I played the RT version, loved the RT version and very rarely played the TB version. I simply found some of the maps far too large for TB! I'd like my tactical missions to last less than a few hours if possible I know that wasn't always the case, but it put me off enough, and there was (to me personally) more fun to be had playing RT.

 

Now if Apoc had been made using something like the turn based system in Silent Storm (disregarding the time difference between when both games were made for a sec) then that would be different. There were some big maps in that game too, but somehow the TB movement system in SS took this into account and made it less tiresome. Maybe the maps just wren't quite as big, I don't know.

[Matri]

Ah, the old TB vs RT Apoc - I played the RT version, loved the RT version and very rarely played the TB version. I simply found some of the maps far too large for TB! I'd like my tactical missions to last less than a few hours if possible I know that wasn't always the case, but it put me off enough, and there was (to me personally) more fun to be had playing RT.

Frankly, RT was the only way to make dual-wielding chem guns work, but you do lose a sense of tactics as everything gets kinda rushed. Only the aliens could mount a perfect flanking strategy and it usually spells doom if you don't have dimensional armour.

 

Now if Apoc had been made using something like the turn based system in Silent Storm (disregarding the time difference between when both games were made for a sec) then that would be different. There were some big maps in that game too, but somehow the TB movement system in SS took this into account and made it less tiresome. Maybe the maps just wren't quite as big, I don't know.

Or maybe because you had a heck of a lot more action points in SS. Not to mention more effective weapons.

[Bomb Bloke]

I've maybe played through Apoc about three times now. Probably played one, maybe two maps in TB. I just found it far too tedious.

 

On the other hand, I've lost track of how many times I've played through UFO, which is obviously TB only.

[Thorondor]

I've tried Apoc's RT for a very short while. Found it too messy for my taste, and went right back to TB...

 

Somehow I didn't have the same trouble with ALTAR's UFO: Aftermath & Co. pausable RT. Maybe it was because I had since played Baldur's Gate.

 

Anyway, I continue to love TB; it's system with great merits of its own that still apply this very day. True, it can get tedious under some circumstances, but, as was said of Silent Storm, there are ways to play to its strengths too...

 

::

 

 

"Hidden Movement"

[Gimli]

This is interesting. I had a similar experience that BB had with Apoc. I mean, I don't mind either system in it, but I've had problems with both, where it would become tedious. In RT and even with only 2 6-man teams it was a bit tedious and complicated to have them split up and control each separately at the same time. I think part of the problem was that the maps were too big. I mean, that slum map had 9 floors worth of buildings. This and the fact that people typically don't have a problem with TB in UFO leads me to believe that UFO's size of maps was better. TFTD is also despised by some because of Shipping Route missions which can take a long time to play. I know I don't like them either, especially the second part where there's a lot of nooks and crannies.

It's funny because I remember someone saying how it could take you 2 hours to finish some missions in UFO (base defense I think) and implied that it's good. Yet I couldn't disagree more. I know that base defense missions do have the problem of sometimes being too long, because you kill most of the aliens quickly but then have to waste time looking for the last few. And it's not because the AI is smart and is intentionally hiding from you or preparing an ambush, it looks like the AI just gets stuck. I don't know if you ever noticed, but Apocalypse dealt with this problem wonderfully (in my opinion) and something tells me that the developers noticed the same problem and their solution is what we got in the game; that being the "All aliens have fled" message. Personally I always found it great and even more realistic that the aliens would do this when they decided that the odds were against them.

[Matri]

Personally I always found it great and even more realistic that the aliens would do this when they decided that the odds were against them.

That still means the aliens have gotten loose into the city, so you know it will still negatively impact your performance review and that they'll turn up again at the worst time.

 

*mutters* Bloody aliens.

[Bomb Bloke]

Well, you could always chase them. Check the infiltration graphs in a few hours, check what buildings are adjacent to where you were fighting, and if you get a match, you can be fairly certain where to stage your next investigation.

 

Never really had trouble finding aliens in original base defense. I tend to make few bases, but equip them with at least a couple of hangars each. So long as your hangars/access lift have enough spawn points between 'em, they'll contain all the aliens.

 

Now in TFTD base offense, on the other hand.... finding that last Tentaculat (which would inevitably announce itself by killing one of your units, long after you'd given up on "tactics" and just had everyone randomly running around trying to spot the wretched thing) was a royal pain. I suspect this was somewhat intentional on the dev's part, because there's no good reason for melee aliens to sit out in the open from a tactical perspective.

 

In the new game, it appears aliens just spawn into the map, and more come the longer you stay. I wonder if this is really the case, or perhaps they're all there to begin with - if you know where to look?

[NKF]

Aliens that have fled dont' impact the adjacent infiltration very much. Any infiltration in adjacent buildings would've been there from the start. You do have to monitor the infiltration site and its adjacent buildings (using the graphs) after the initial investigation for a couple of hours until the levels drop off anyhow. By carefully monitoring the graphs, you'll never have to worry about nasty surprises from the aliens' front after clearing the infiltration zone.

 

Turn based, real time. I think it doesn't matter as long as it's fun. One thing I'd like to see the series try, if it ever gets back to turn based, is to use sequential turn based as opposed to its more traditional simultaneous turn-based mode. That is to say, speed queues. Sort of like the turn based system used in a lot of tactical RPGs where the TU or action bars are filled up until one reaches the full bar, then is allowed to move. Anyone who has played games like Nethack or ADOM might be familiar with this system - just expand the concept to controlling multiple characters. It has its perks and disadvantages like any other system. Just for a change rather than for any practical reason.

 

As for Sans Hyphen, my stance is one of a pessimist. I have very low expectations of it. Rather depressing, I know, but it has the advantage that the game can only get better from here on, whether it flops or becomes a best seller amongst the XCOM supporters and naysayers. So, looking forward to trying the game when it comes out (if I can get it to run). And I'm hoping the blobs are just placeholders.

 

- NKF

[Matri]

And I'm hoping the blobs are just placeholders.

I doubt it, judging from the quality of those blobs it's hard to believe that they weren't lovingly crafted.

[Pete]

There has been at least one video interview where a dev said that the titan and the blobs are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the aliens you'll encounter, so there will be others. I guess from that that they're holding back on the others either to not give too much away or (more likely IMOP given the 2011 release "date") because they're still working on them.

[Space Voyager]

Hehe, that's internet for you.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind a straight up remake, as long as it worked well out of the box on new systems and came with a good set of modding tools.

But even more than that I would like a sequel like the first 3 games.

 

I've been wondering something that is somewhat related. I know there are some who prefer RT to TB in Apocalypse. My question is: would you still play the game if it were TB? I know I prefer TB, but would still play RT if it didn't have TB so I'm wondering if it works the other way around.

Agree with everything you have written.

 

As for TB vs. RT, I am not a huge fan of either one of them. Total RT usually makes it clickfest (not necessary though) while total TB makes my beard grow faster. I know we have been onto this several times, but I like UFO:After... approach the most so far.

 

I bought UFO:ET but just couldn't play through the game, the battles just dragged forever. I'll definitely wait for some feedback on UFO:ET2 before buying.

[Bomb Bloke]

In regards to RT in Apoc, that implementation is only a click-fest if you disable all the game-pausing notifications (which are on by default). Even then, you can still pause the game at any point so you can give orders at your own pace.

 

The game also tries to strike a balance between AI-controlled soldiers and "complete user control". By default, your units take orders with a grain of salt: If they see an alien, for example, they'll stop whatever you've got them doing, and either shoot at it or take cover. If you've got them holding position somewhere, they'll step aside to dodge incoming fire (and then step back when it appears safe).

 

However, all of this can be over-ridden via "aggressive" mode, in which case your units follow orders blindly and to the letter. They won't stop and shoot unless specifically told to, and will never attempt to dodge fire.

 

I thought it was a nice compromise, as you effectively got to enable or disable the AI of your own soldiers as you wished. In many cases, you could tell them to wander across the map and leave them to it: they'd automatically kill anything along the way. Of course, they'd get themselves killed if allowed to make their own decisions in the larger fire-fights (which is true for pretty much all AIs, which is why I want to see some "squad control" appearing in the new XCOM. Again, it's hard to feel responsibility unless units are getting blasted while carrying out your orders).

[Space Voyager]

Yes, I too really liked Apoc RT. Firstly I thought it is so uncool (only wanting TB), but once I tried it out and saw the behaviours... I never looked back to TB. Awesome.

[Azrael Strife]

Indeed, it was, IMO, a huge improvement over previous iterations of X-Com.

[CapnKill]

The fact that this game hasn't shown us that it is even related to X-Com besides the name kinda defeats the purpose of bringing it back, wouldn't you say?

 

I read some stuff that suggested you'll still be researching alien tech, and you'll still find it in your best interests to keep your AI squad mates alive because they will progress their stats just like the original did... I'm sure there might be more similarities, but at least there's something there.

 

People are upset with the blobs for some reason, but they look pretty neat to me and pretty creepy when they can get in your mouth and suffocate you from the inside.... but obviously there will be a ton more aliens to deal with than just the blobs.

 

And if anyone is complaining about the blobs but liked Apoc, then I don't know what to say, cause the Aliens in Apoc were ridiculously stupid.

 

IMO our best shot at a good X-Com remake is UFO: ET 2. The modding community has done wonders for UFO: ET and now they're working on the sequel with the help of that BMan guy, so I'm expected a pretty darn good title when it comes out.

[Sgt. Strike]

Ok, from what I understand, that aliens started to really invade in the 1950's. (Roswell New Mexico). Assuming that this game, made from some X-Com fans, takes place in the era that U.F.O.'s start making appearances. I doubt that the makers are going to run this game as a prequel to the X-Com series, but more like an earlier off shoot of the storyline. Nothing really organized, and also, nothing more than getting rid of black moving tar, from what I see of the video. This will probably be a parallel starting point to the original X-Com games. Anyway, I'm holding my opinions on the game anymore than I am simply because I've not played it yet. When I do, I'll let y'all know how I feel about it.

On a side note, I've played Bioshock, and thought it a good game. Not great, but good. Could have done a bit better with things, but overall, it was rather enjoyable.

[CapnKill]

Ok, from what I understand, that aliens started to really invade in the 1950's. (Roswell New Mexico). Assuming that this game, made from some X-Com fans, takes place in the era that U.F.O.'s start making appearances. I doubt that the makers are going to run this game as a prequel to the X-Com series, but more like an earlier off shoot of the storyline. Nothing really organized, and also, nothing more than getting rid of black moving tar, from what I see of the video. This will probably be a parallel starting point to the original X-Com games. Anyway, I'm holding my opinions on the game anymore than I am simply because I've not played it yet. When I do, I'll let y'all know how I feel about it.

On a side note, I've played Bioshock, and thought it a good game. Not great, but good. Could have done a bit better with things, but overall, it was rather enjoyable.

 

Well if its one things these guys know to do well, that's a FPS. So with their rep on the line I'm confident that this new x-com game will at least be an enjoyable FPS game, but obviously we all want a bit more, so we'll see how it all ties in together.

[subdane]

Well I wont simply write it off, "just" because its a FPS instead of TBS, that being said I dont think its going to be as good as the orginal xcom series, they were/are perfect. But maybe its gonna be fun playing the tactical missions in FPS, a lot more spooky thats for sure!

 

I am gonna watch this game very closely and of course I am gonna preorder the game

(unless there is another competetion here on this fantastic website, and I can win the game here "Wink wink")

and take the day off when its released!

 

 

 

Just finished playing Xcom3, think I am going to play Xcom1 again. Thank you Pete for telling us that it is available on Steam.