New XCOM game

[Balou]

gravity:

If you can include such physiques (house fall to one side) that would be great. However, this would make some terrain unpassable because of the grid (if I'm not mistaken). For me such physiques are an optional addition to spice up the strategic battle (would be nice but not necessary for me).

 

Greys:

Well, maybe I could give them some kind of armour. They should have developed something to protect their bodies.

 

Government vs. x-com:

My original idea was that other governments will attack aliens by themselves and they get better the more aliens they shoot down (because of alien technology). So, some day they may outperform you if you are not careful enough (you can also buy techs from them).

 

3d graphics:

I do 3d models and then "lay" them out to a flat surface, which will be the texture. It's just a flat picture wrapped around a 3d object (I need to be careful when I lay the mesh out so things don't get stretched etc.).

You could try to paint on this layed out mesh, it requires some practice though (I can't do it).

 

battle against alien:

Well, I meant that there are only a few aliens (after all it's just a colonization ship), not hordes of ufos raining down on earth.

Anyway, your idea about agents and good aliens sounds interesting. How would you integrate it into gameplay?

Exchanging prisoners is also good, saves the hassle to correctly place soldiers in prisons etc. (instead simple interface in geoscope).

 

male template:

Ahm... well, how should the model be set up? How many polys? Should the body be segmented into different objects and what format)? (.3ds?)

Should it have a texture and the necessary texture coordinates?

 

I have not the faintest idea how you do this stuff with the code, but I'm looking forward to whatever you come up with

[Jman4117]

1. Stucturally unstable houses should lean over but if it's more than two stories it would fall apart when it hits the ground.

 

2. If the aliens are colonist (civilian greys) they probably wouldn't have armour or weapons in the first engagement you have with them. Second mission onward body armour and weapons.

 

3. The gov't thing is where they work to help xcom, are against xcom, or are neutral. If the gov'ts loyal to xcom can engage in battle with the aliens why can't the gov'ts who signed an alien pact be 'persuaded' to use military force agaist xcom and maybe other gov'ts. Would be interesting to get support at a terror site from a loyal gov't or to have alien pact gov't defending a crash site. The major countries of the world could be treated as factions and their loyalty may change.

 

Edit: Or maybe have the first encounter before the game actually begins. Drop a nuclear bomb on the alien lander leaving a huge crater visible from space (geoscape). The aliens declare war, then begin the take over of earth. They will not use any kind of doomsday weapon because they want the earth and all of its inhabitats (colony, food, genetic hybrids, slaves).

 

Could also have a 'Roswell' first incounter. Scout ship is shot down and aliens attack.

[Balou]

Jman4117:

1. I agree

2. Well, the colonization ship is only an excuse to have aliens come to our solar system. I think it should be a small fleet of ship and because of their advanced technology they can also produce military hardware in their ships (while harvesting "resources" on mars?).

I agree first mission should be easy, maybe a scout or something like this (sometimes had this in original x-com as my first ufo).

3. Sounds good. Nevertheless, I think the majority of countries should be either neutral or friendly towards x-com.

 

I thought about nuclear weapons too. It would be a reasonable weapon against those large ships.

However, the exact story can be decided on later, first we need to have something that actually works. Until then I think we should keep the ball very low.

 

By the way I now signed up for this .Net Passport. Will join the workspace soon.

[Jman4117]

Point 3 would be if a country signed a pact otherwise they would fight along side xcom.

 

Edit: Just had an idea about the agent thing mentioned earlier. Have a training facility (sort of like the psilab in UFO) at the base to train a limited number of soldiers in covert ops. Put the limit at something like 10 at a time. They gain experience the longer they are in training. Then you can assign them to a particular country or region. Have it where it goes on without your direct control (just assign them and give them an objective). They can spy on countries, locate alien bases, infiltrate hostile gov'ts (maybe get them to support xcom again), sabotage alien plots, etc. The more skilled the agent or the more agents in the area the better they perform the task you assign.

 

Could also use the same facility to train doctors (heal faster), pilots, or mechanics (repair faster).

[Bulma]

I started working on Battlefield. I`ll be uploading new versions of battlefield and screenshots (if you can`t run executable) periodically, so you can monitor my progress and give your ideas. It`s uploaded in XCom.NET File Share on gotdotnet workspaces.

[Bulma]

Balou:

male template:

Depends on maksimum number of units in game. Let`s say maximum is 100000 polys, so for 20 units, one should have no more than 5000. Parts of body should be linked, but I have to test that, so you don`t have to worry about that for now.

Which program you use? 3ds Max, Maya?

 

I need someone to make some parts for map: walls, grass, chairs, etc. Download latest Battlefield (v0.11) and you`ll get idea. I made three simple parts (floor, wall without picure and wall with picture), but I need many more of course...

This is how to create parts:

Every part can be in 5 positions: left, right, top, bottom and floor. Top rotates objects in block for 90deg, bottom for -90deg, right for 180deg, and left and floor are actualy the same and they both leave object in default position. Each block is 100by100by200 units in size. So, everything you draw should be inside that block. Default position is in direction of X coordiante. So, if you want to make wall, you draw box from -50x-50x0 to -45x50x200 for 5 units thick wall. Of course, you may use much more than just one box. For now, only one texure is supported (diffuse layer). Texture coordinates are needed. I`ll upload my three objects to gotdotnet, so you`ll get the idea...

 

I would like first to try to create some demo map, so we can start adding units, weapons and stuff... I am still not sure how to do damage to walls, it looked easy on 2D walls(3D, but without thickness), but 2D would be very ugly so we do need 3D.

[Balou]

For my civ3 units I also used around 5000 polys (without texture though). That's quite a lot but I'm fine with it. The model I work on now is a generic male, not really related to x-com. It will be useful later when I can use it to build other character from (with the right proportions).

I use 3dmax, although not the latest version. Just tell me what format the model should be. I will also include some rough texture coordinates.

 

Right now I can't access the workspace because of some unspecified error.

I will try it again later...

[Jman4117]

I am also getting this error.

[Bulma]

We just got new member, his name is Scott Worley, and I hope he`ll soon join our discussions...

 

What errors are you getting? Try using HTML version for fileshare, because there is something wrong with Windows Forms interface. Choose Fileshare from left menu, and that HTML version.

 

I am converting to .X format (currently using Panda exporter) from 3DSMAX.

Just send me .MAX, I`ll do do the rest... for now (until I test it, and give you detailed instructions how you can do it)

 

About 5000 polys, it is pretty lot, and lower end graphics card will have problems, but I think it`s easier to reduce number of polygons than increase it...

[Jman4117]

Haven't got direct x 9.0 yet. (Only have ver.6 now, I think.) But looked at jpg and bmps. Is the grid 1m x 1m x 2m? Couldn't tell how many times brick was repeated up an down.

 

Edit: Download in progress.........

Managed to get the 10MB free on my HD that I needed to install it. WOOHOO! Now have 54MB free.

[Balou]

Well, all it says is "unspecified Error".

Anyway, I can access the worksspace now.

 

I downloaded the latest battlefiled build, but it doesn't work for me because a file can not be found ('Microsoft.DirectX.DirectInput' at 'Battlefield.Engine3D..ctor' etc.). I use version DirectX 9.0a (at least that is what it says when I run dxdiag.). Do you have an idea what I need to make it work?

Anyway, I managed to take a look at the .x files through a seperate viewer. I also found some directx exporters for my 3dmax version (Microsoft, EffectWare and Pandasoft).

[Jman4117]

I also have problems with Directx 9. Is there a required plug-in for it?

[Bulma]

I was affraid of something like this. First did you install .NET framework before DirectX? If you did, then Directx9 MDX should be installed. But, I remember that I tryed that once and for some reason it didn`t work.

Did you installed DirectX 9.0 - Managed DirectX from windows update? If not try this first.

If all failed you could try to install mdxredist.msi which I uploaded to fileshare. Note, this is for DiretX9 not 9a, so maybe is better to wait few days till I download 9a SDK (which was released few days ago), and try to found out what is wrong.

 

Balou:

Microsoft .X exporter used to have some problems with vertex normals. There is a fix, but you have to recompile it.

Is EffectWare good?

 

Now, about ideas:

I`ll try to summarize ideas:

- x-com only founded by a few countries, other governments will attack aliens by themselves, AND MAYBE: Governments hostile to Xcom should attack xcom (an alien pact)

- aliens/x-com units can surrender - can be free by attack or prisoners exchange

- Xcom needs gravity, buildings collapses after enough structural damage

- some weapons shoot through walls instead of blowing out sections

- two types of units: agents and soldiers

 

Did I forgot something?

 

It would be nice if you could call reinforcements while in combat. Then you could first send only few agents, which would be enough for most missions, but if you encounter heavy resistance, you could call for an army (lots of heavily armed soldiers). However, there is a timing problem: if this happens on other part of world, agents should wait for few hours, and if one round lasts 1 min, then there will be lots of "end turns". But than again, we can bend physics a little, and make ship to arrive in few turns, or even set option to put agents to some waiting mode, so you don`t actually play those turns waiting for other ship to arrive.

Using agents for spying and stuff is ok, but I would rather use them in more interactive mode like combat or exploring...

[Balou]

I downloaded those plugins from maxplugins.de (free plugins for all 3dmax versions). The description there states that the EffectWare exporter includes mesh, material, texture and node information. However, the Pandasoft exporter is said to export the most information from the .max file (including materials with diffuse maps).

 

About the DirectX problem, I think will wait until you have the latest version of the SDK to solve the problem.

 

'Agents':

Maybe you could make it so that the public gets upset every time you do strategic missions with heavy foot soldiers and lots of shooting/damage to buildings (which results in less money). This way agents would make sense because they can 'get rid' of aliens without making much noise. Agents could get close to Aliens because they think of them as normal citizens (no direct thread until found out - may be hard to make the AI support this).

Agents could then go into battle (although not good against many aliens, especially groups of aliens) as well as spy out countries not friendly to x-com (assigned to spying missions in the geoscope - no graphics involved).

Maybe later in the game there could be Aliens that cannot be tricked by Agents (Commanders or Aliens with great 'Psy-abilities' - if we chose to integrate this).

[Jman4117]

Maybe have it where you get bills for damages.

 

I agree, agents should be combat units as well as units that can be assigned to countries in 'geoscape'. Maybe use soldiers and 'upgrade' them to agents.

 

Edit: With the alien pact thing, the gov't in question should at least tell the location of the bases on its soil, and maybe protect crashed ufo's, and attack xcom craft.

 

Using agents would also help to keep 'xcom' a secret from the general population. Less invasive to sneak up on an alien leader a put a bullet in his brain than to send in a platoon of soldiers, trashing a neiborhood in the process.

[Bulma]

Sorry for delay. I had some personal problems to solve...

 

OK, here is how to install DirectX:

1. You need to install .NET Framework first, you can use Windows update or you can download .NET redistributable, and install it. Once .NET Framework is installed, go to step 2

 

2. You need to install DirectX9. There are two options:

a) If you have redistributable directx installation (DXSetup.exe), start it with with the /InstallManagedDX command line attribute:

Example: DXSetup.exe /InstallManagedDX

B) If you use windows update, first install DirectX9, and then install DirectX9 Managed from windows update.

 

Then you should try Test.EXE from fileshare. If it work, you have succesfully installed DirectX9 Managed. There is possibility that Test.EXE work and Battlefield don`t, becuase of some compatibility issues.

 

Ok, I need to know do you like this grid thing, or should we make some changes? I would like to add multiple level support, and add some options for working with maps (loading, saving, adding elements, etc.).

After that, we create some sample map, and start working on menus, units, weapons, and stuff... OK?

 

 

I would also like that both of you send me spec. of your PC configurations (CPU, memory, OS, video card)...

 

Jman:

Using agents would also help to keep 'xcom' a secret from the general population. Less invasive to sneak up on an alien leader a put a bullet in his brain than to send in a platoon of soldiers, trashing a neiborhood in the process.

 

Yes, that would be great...

 

Scott:

If you are still alive, say something... :devil:

[Jman4117]

Pentium I MMX

233mhz

48MB RAM

Win 98SE

Display: NeoMagic MagicGraph 128XD

Sound: 16 bit Sound Blaster (I think it's off brand and uses SB2 driver)

[Bulma]

NeoMagic MagicGraph 128XD[\QUOTE]

 

That is not 3D accelerator. right? DirectX9 doesn`t support software rendering, so I am afraid I have to tell you that you won`t be able to run Battlefield on your PC... You could use Ref. rendering but on your hardware you won`t have more that 0.5 fps...

Anyway, do you think (from screenshot), that grid is OK?

[Jman4117]

Looks like xcom with improved graphics.

[Bulma]

I have add some function for map building in Battlefield.

Balou:

Download Battlefield v0.2, and try to make some simple test map. First go to File/New, and select desired map size. Then press Elements/Load Blocks to load .X blocks from Blocks directory (you can add your own blocks there).

Block is placed by pressing left mouse button on desired location. For browsing map use arrow keys, and page up/down. If you need to delete block use DELETE key. With +/- you choose block to add, and with SPACE you select position to add. There are five positions, and only one object can use one position on same block (so, total is five objects per block). LEFT and FLOOR looks the same, so beware (use FLOOR for floor elements, and LEFT for wall elements). Map is saved with File/Save, and loaded with File/Load.

If you have any problems, or request for additional features, I am here

 

Jman4117:

While Balou is making demo map, you could draw some pictures for Battlefield HUD where unit stats, turn and other data will be displayed. Also, we need some basic characteristics that units will have like AP, HP, ACC, etc. Any ideas?

[BladeFireLight]

how does one access the files you posted.. It get a "not have permissions" error

[Jman4117]

You have to join, I think.

 

This is the thing at the bottom of screen with rank, stats, and option buttons right. If this game is going to play in Windows maybe it should be at the top of screen.

 

Rank system: Private/Recruit, Corporal, Sargent, Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Colonel, General (Player). Also using real rank insignias (Sargent was the only one that looked right in xcom).

 

https://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/jgodwin/HUD2.jpg

Maybe have two stats columns to eliminate that extra screen and rearange buttons. This would make interface similar without breaking copywright laws.

[Bulma]

BladeFireLight:

I have upload it to Releases, so now you can download it without join.

 

Jman4117:

I think we should put it at bottom, it`s common even for Windows games to have menus at bottom...

Which buttons do we need?

There is no throwing, shall we use ACC for bomb throwing?

[Jman4117]

That was just a summary. (15 minutes in paint)

 

Probably could have the bulk of the stats (TU's, Stamina, Firing Acc, Throwing Acc, Strength, Psi abilities on left and Armour taking up several entries on right, along with Health, Moral, Bravery). It would eliminate the extra stats screen and help distinguish this game from the copywrighted xcom game. Would also be more convenient to have all stats visable (no looking on another screen for fatal wounds, armour status, Psi ability, etc).

 

As for buttons:

There needs to be buttons for stand, squat and prone (maybe 3 buttons or possibly an up and a down - standing; press down; squatting; press down; prone).

Center on unit

View a level of the map or all at once.

Abort

View unit's equipment

Reserve TU's

 

Hand to Hand combat would also be good. This would allow you to keep fighting after you are out of ammo (bayonet, rifle butt, knife, punch, kick, etc.) Maybe treat it as a third weapon, perhaps a button, weapon option, of something to do with empty hand. May also stun alien by beating it senseless or a strong alien, like a muton, would be practicaly immune and decide to return the favor the next turn.

 

Also found a page with pictures of rank insignias. May be good to have real ones. I think that was originaly the plan for xcom, because in the manual they showed a private's insignia and also made references to hand 2 hand combat.

[Bulma]

BALOU, WHERE ARE YOU?

 

Jman4117:

Ok, we`ll start with these stats:

TU's, Stamina, Firing Acc, Throwing Acc, Strength, Psi abilities

Armour taking up several entries, Health, Moral, Bravery

We need some buttons for next units, end turn, etc. Can you try to draw another picture with all needed stats/buttons?

Yes, we need Hand to Hand combat. I am thinking to use available weapon slots for Hand to Hand combat. And every weapon along with snap, auto, aim and throw would have kick too. but then you couldn`t be able to use legs or body for combat. What about using this idea plus one more weapon slot for other types of Hand to Hand combat (legs, etc...)?

Agents should be better at this type of combat.