New XCOM game

[Bulma]

I am big fan of XCom and still waiting for some good sequel of XCom, but I don`t see any...

So, what about building our own XCom game? No multiplayer, card game, e-mail or some other junk, but something close to original...

I have some knowledge of C++/C#, DirectX programming. Anyone interested in starting some serious-nonprofitable project?

 

Bulma

[Munkeylord]

it actually sounds like fun.............but how would we go about doing this...i mean, how would the sequal continue? New items, weapons, tanks, armor....aliens? thats alot of graphics! but i'm not sure what i think of the idea yet...give me a few days and maybe, hopefully there will be more replies as well.

[Jman4117]

Probably best to use the existing game and edit graphics, text, music, etc. Maybe have a sequel that begins about a year after the cydonia mission. The aliens only lost the base in our solar system, but more remains. They only used a small force the first time and are now going to throw everything they've got at us. Prehaps anvance the weapon technolgy a bit. You start with the original alien tech and the aliens have stuff that they has just developed. They also may have better armour, better ships, new power sources, etc. Maybe have a medium scout that carries 10 aliens and more for the larger ones. 10 Sectiod soldiers armed with tachyon pulse cannons and wearing body armour at the begining of the game would make things pretty interesting.

 

Anybody know how to change the start year to something like 2002?

[BladeFireLight]

Best I could do is advance it after the first combat.

 

Rehashing the original game will be and interesting chalange.. the mechanics of the research tree is part of the EXE so there is no way to change the flow of the research tree.

 

unless some one feels like reverse engineering the geoscape.exe

 

-Blade FireLight

[Jman4117]

Thinking about keeping the same research order but doing something like changing the results. Cydonia or Bust may be The Globular Cluster.

 

Could also 'upgrade' the floater, muton, cyberdisk, and sectopod. Do minor graphics changes and mention the upgrades to these cyborg/robots in the research

[Bulma]

I found out that there are some projects like Xenocide or EDF that are trying to do something similar. But it like they all want some portable code, and want to use C++/OpenGL. Well, I want to use c#/DirectX because it`s much simpler and faster to code. I don`t get what is wrong with this people, why do they care about few percent of people that have FreeBSD, Linux or some other weird OS...

[daishiva]

aha, another C# person, good language huh =)

 

ive toyed around with creating an xcom engine - got it to do random map generation and started animating the guys too, fun stuff, but its in SDL and that feels like a hack just cause of how im doing it. I would like to do it in directx 9, and probably will once i take the time to figure it out

[ssvb]

C++ language is a rather good general purpose language. Much more people know it. In addition there are many libraries for use with C++. As opposite, C# is a very young language and needs time to become mature.

 

And also I do not like M$ stuff very much (although Windows is very convenient for end user). Their API is sometimes weird, documentation unclear, their code has bugs and the worst thing is that you can't change anything because you do not have access to the sources

 

When writing portable code you do not restrict yourself but have a freedom not relying on things that can be changed in the future. C++ is standartized, I do not know about C# but think it is unlikely to have standard. A good example is Visual Basic, it is changed with every new version. Don't think I would ever like this.

 

--

Serge Semashko

ufo2000 development team

https://ufo2000.sourceforge.net

[Bulma]

daishiva:

Interested in starting XCOM .NET project?

 

ssvb:

I know that C++ is more portable and I can`t argue that... But, I don`t think many people have something other than Windows either...

I am not sure that more people know C++ than C#. Maybe C#, but if you code in .NET you can code in many more languages, VB.NET, C#, J#, C++managed, and even more .NET languages (Phyton, etc.). So any C++/Java/VB programmer can be used. More, you can even code in pure C++, create DLL and call it from .NET application very easily. You can use unmanaged code. There are many choices... Speed for complex calculations can be compensated with unmanaged/unsafe code and/or C++ DLLs, so that`s not issue either.

C# is standardized as C++. Java for example isn`t...

You don`t have Windows API source anyway, so it doesn`t make much of a difference.

What is main benefit of C# is coding speed. You can do much more code in less time. And we all know that time is money...

Or, one other that I heard

Better average code today than perfect code tommorow.

 

And for average developer, c# code will probably have less bugs than C++. No memory leaks, shorter code, boundary checks, much better exception support, etc...

[NKF]

Before this degenerates into heated debate over programming languages or OS's, I'd like to point out that you can never please everyone in these matters, no matter what. Everyone has their preferences and reasons, and not all of them are necessarily justified or unreasonable either.

 

Not everyone has a Windows PC, or can afford to get a windows PC (or upgrade to the latest version for that matter). Then there are your brand zealots who won't touch another company's products with a ten foot pole. For them, well, you can't do anything about them. The fact remains: there are many other systems out there. Not just Microsoft's. Everyone wants a piece of the cake, but not everyone is willing to share or is able to share.

 

There's no reason why you should write portable code -- and conversely, there's no real reason why you shouldn't. You can also say that there's no reason why you should or shouldn't use a plain text editor and a non-commercial compiler over a fully intergrated devlopment environment with all its useful bells and whistles that only runs on cutting edge technology (not singling out .Net here, I just meant in general).

 

Really, it's up to you. Just develop whatever you want with whatever tools you have or want to use as long as you can get the job done. Any way you go about it, there will always be some advantages and some disadvantages that you'll need to deal with along the way.

 

- NKF

[Balou]

Helle there,

 

I'm new to this board and, just like everyone else here, a huge x-com fan (especially the first game).

I have only played the first and the third (apocalypse) x-com game though, with the first one being my favourite. After genesis was cancelled I lost interest and looked around for other strategy games... (only Ja2 catched my interest)

To make a long story short I would love to help creating a fanmade x-com game. I could do some 3d graphics. In the past I have done some weapons for Quake3 (3d) and just recently some infantry units for civ3 (2d - fully animated). I'm by now means a pro in 3d art but I'm really devoted to the work I do (that is if I'm really interested).

Personally I would like to see an x-com game in a more realistic environment, although I still need to come up with a concept for it.

I can still remember the first time I played x-com and encountered my first alien (sectoid). Personally I would like to build up on this "first alien" feeling (not an all-out battle, instead rare and scary encounters). About the game engine I think a 3d engine would be best, however, not one for spectacular zooming and rotation, just simple isometric view. What I experienced so far is that it's easier to create art for a 3d game because you are not limited by the palette and such things (and things like weapons can easily be changed without changing the whole graphic), but that's just my view.

 

I have also heared about the edf project, but for me their plans are a bit too ambitious (single- AND multiplayer, unlimited levelsizes, play as the aliens etc.)...

[Bulma]

Personally I would like to see an x-com game in a more realistic environment, although I still need to come up with a concept for it.

I can still remember the first time I played x-com and encountered my first alien (sectoid). Personally I would like to build up on this "first alien" feeling (not an all-out battle, instead rare and scary encounters).

You mean something like X-Files? Searching for aliens? Exploring crash sites, maybe even trying to communicate with some friendly aliens?

 

I am planning to keep it as simple as possible, and finish this project in 4-6 months. If you are interested, drop me an E-mail, so we could start this project immediately...

My E-Mail: BulmaXP@hotmail.com

[Jman4117]

The 'simplest' way to do this would be to make a patch for the original game, instead of trying to program the entire game scratch. You could keep the general way the game functions in this manner. Although the buildings would still float with the first story knocked out.

[BladeFireLight]

I am planning to keep it as simple as possible, and finish this project in 4-6 months. If you are interested, drop me an E-mail, so we could start this project immediately...

My E-Mail: BulmaXP@hotmail.com

4 to 6 months?

 

-Blade FireLight

[Jman4117]

Probably longer than that doing it in spare time from scratch. Read something about EDF, and they are taking 2-3 years with a pretty large number of people.

[daishiva]

I code in c# because i like the language, noone says you have to run my programs and i dont expect anyone to =)

 

Bulma: I would have to learn how to do things in directx before i really started any sort of work on an xcom.net. Soon as i finish my map editor thats what ill be doing next, and then once im comfortable blitting sprites to surfaces and whatnot, then ill begin some sort of battlescape engine - which will be about revision 3 for me (once in java, once in SDL, and the one in DX) so hopefully it wont take that long to do *knock on wood*

 

So ill get back to you when i get that far ok? =) dont hold your breath waiting, blade can attest to how long the map editor has been in development

[Balou]

Bulma: Yes, somehwhat like x-files, although I'm still a little unsure how that could be integrated into gameplay. Also, x-files is based on the thesis that the government tries to hide alien existance. I don't like that very much, sounds too much like a movie.

Four to six months for a game sounds a bit short, there is no need to hurry after all. Working on it and seeing it evolve will be much more fun than playing it anyway. And there should be a more or less complete concept for all important parts.

So in my view there first should be a planning phase were different people bring up concepts and ideas, then it is roughly decided what the game will be like and the process can begin (just to prevent us running into a dead end).

 

Jman4117: You are probably right, however, the first x-com is very old and the graphics, the ai and many other things need an update. For me it would be very exciting to work on game from the beginning.

[NKF]

That got me thinking. For another aspect of the game, I thought a little of undercover detective work could be in order. Say you get a small group of plainclothes agents put into a city setting and you are only armed with easily concealable weapons (silenced pistols, for example). You roam the city, trying to look for that alien in disguise. Pulling out your weapon in public will have the same effect as it did in the Syndicate series. Civilians will run off screaming and the cops will be on you the moment they see you and try to arrest you or start shooting if you start firing back.

 

The missions would be of all sorts. To tag an alien, follow it, kill undercover alien terrorists, impersonate them or plant false data onto them, for example.

 

Of course, all this would have to happen while the organisation is relatively unknown. But once the word gets out that the organisation exists, then you can start tromping about the city in your power armour and snazzy futuristic boots, and not get shot at by the local law enforcers.

 

Just tossing out ideas.

 

- NKF

[daishiva]

Thats a cool idea, you should post that in the 'fan ideas' forum =)

[Bulma]

Ok, I see there is some interes for this project, so it`s time to announce official start of project

Project name: XCom .NET

Started: 30.5.2003.

End: unknown

Type: Turn-based strategy

Platform: Windows

 

Ok, now, first phase is planning, so let start planning. Listening your ideas...

Meanwhile, I`ll start same alpha coding of battlefield ASAP (whatever concept will game have, it will probably have some sort of battlefield). But first we need to know few things:

1. Will this be turn based or not?

We are not making Half-Life or Quake, so it probably be turn based...

2. Will battlefield have Grid?

There are actualy two possible grids:

a) Movement grid - if this is turn based, it would be logicaly to have movement grid

B) Map grid - if map is build from square blocks, it would be much easier to build map, and even to play, but it will be somewhat limited...

I would like to use both grids (at least for start, as I usually recode my projects few times till they take its final shape , it would make it easier to code, and I have a few ideas how to implement it, so some basic version of battlefield could be done in few weeks...

Generaly, idea is that map is divided into square blocks, and every block consists of four walls, and one floor. Every part (of these five) can be any 3D object, anywhere inside that block. If I recall correctly, original XCom use something similar, but 2D not 3D...

 

Ideas please...

 

Balou: No government. Maybe more like Psi-factor, you are the government...

[Balou]

Ok, here some ideas:

story/background:

- aliens around alpha centauri (or any place we don't know for sure if life is possible or not)

- aliens launch colonization ship in our direction a long time ago (because interesting area...?)

- alien ship loses contact with alien world (opens up the option to let another alien ship with superior technology arrive later in the game)

- alien settle down on mars, first communication - aliens want us to surrender (because we are too primitive compared to them?) -> x-com is founded

- player enters game and needs to build a base, squad (train them), select research, build air(ufo) defense, things like that (prebattle phase)

- x-com only founded by a few countries (so you have some competition by the military of other countries - not really vital to the game though)

- aliens are a bit more civilized (discussion: can only civilized species have advanced technology?) -> that would mean no more naked aliens...

(- include some apocalypse gameplay features, like different corporations, police... public opinion?)

 

battle:

- each squad member has a specifc function (sniper, heavy weapons etc. and is trained for this purpose)

- every agent has a favourite weapon he/she is best with (agents should have a bit more personality)

- x-com agents (and aliens?) can go prone

- explosions don't go through walls...

- aliens/x-com agents can surrender (and are imprisoned in the nearest alien/x-com base -> can be freed again (well, this is from ja2..))

 

geoscope:

- earth should be alive (maybe a newspaper at the beginning of every week - all optional, for deeper atmosphere when everything else is done)

- maybe also include a "mars camera"

 

That's all I can think of right now.

I agree that we should first have some kind of demo level of the strategic combat.

About your questions:

1. I suggest turn based (and no realtime option )

2. If grids are easier then we should do grids (I like games with a solid game world).

 

Sorry, I don't really know Psi-factor. What is it mainly about?

 

A bit about my graphical skills:

I can only do 3d objects (weapons/buildings/characters/animation/other items), no textures or concept drawings (I'm just no good at those things). I like to work with low-poly meshes, not so much high-poly stuff.

Today I began work on a generic male template which I can use to build other characters from. I also need to mention that I work very slow (little things can occupy me for hours and days).

 

I hope we can find more people interested in making a x-com game.

(And by the way I don't want to compete with the edf projetc, it's all about making a dream come true (for me at least).

[Bulma]

daishiva: No problem, pop in when ready...

 

Balou: Psi-factor was bad example anyway, Men in Black is probably much better example... Speed is not an issue, and we won`t compete with anyone. Competition makes me nervous...

I have to write these ideas somewhere, in case this forum dies or something

 

I just created XCom .NET project at www.gotdotnet.com.

Goto:

https://www.gotdotnet.com/community/workspa.../directory.aspx

And search for "XCom .NET" project.

OR, try this link:

https://www.gotdotnet.com/Community/Workspa...8c-3e5e2bf6792e

 

We`ll still use this forum for now, as it has much more traffic, but gotdotnet is good for file sharing (at least I hope as I have never use it before )

[Jman4117]

1. Xcom needs gravity!

2. Perhaps have weapons shoot through walls instead of blowing out sections.

3. I agree, prone is good and the aliens should be able to do the same.

4. It needs to be turned based. (That's what makes Xcom a statagy game.)

5. Greys are a must. (They are the classic alien)

6. Governments hostile to Xcom should attack xcom.

7. Maybe in the equip screen have the weapons where they can be turned. (Something like putting a pistol on a man's shoulder.)

 

Was the first colony ship what started the first alien war? If so use that as a continuation of xcom1. The main alien force is investigating the destruction of the Martian base.

 

Skills: Some graphics (Buildings, ships, maybe weapons; no people, I have problems with shading the characters right.) Also I have a low end computer; will the graphics be done in a program like paint that can run on a 200mhz?

[Bulma]

Jman4117:

1. Agreed. I have some ideas how to implement "WTC" effect: After enough structural damage to one floor, whole building collapses at same position. It could be ok for skyscrapers, but I don`t think it`s very real for smaller houses. Maybe it should even fall to side (if you blow walls from that side) or something.

Any ideas?

2. My current plan is that weapons make holes in walls. But smaller weapons should just pass or not pass through , because it would be too small hole to draw it. So, yes, like in Counterstrike, you should be able to shoot throw walls...

3. OK

4. Of course

5. This depends on a story, we`ll be back on that question later. Anyway, I hope they are not patented or something?

6. I don`t like that idea, other governments should do the same job as you , or not do anything I can`t imagine this situation: lets say that govenment of X country don`t like you, and tries to shut down any of your plane that fly over. So you would have to watch where you send your planes, and keep distance from this X country...

7. Don`t understand what are you trying to say, can you be more specific?

 

We are doing 3D graphics, but we`ll need textures, and idea sketches (pictures with cities, aliens etc...), and you don`t need fast CPU for that...

 

Balou:

Wouldn`t you story lead to an all-out battle, and that`s exactly what we are trying to avoid? Maybe more like MIB stuff: Good/Bad aliens, most of them are just on vacation on Earth, but there are some that don`t like anything that moves

Instead of attacking prisons, maybe some prisoners exchange?

I like the idea that there should be two types of units: agents and soldiers. Agents should have some special abilities, and soldiers should be cheap

Which reminds me of: "MI does the dying. Fleet just does the flying."

 

When you finish template, send me, so I can start playing with kinematics, skinning, etc... And don`t expect miracles, as I have never do it before...

[Jman4117]

5. Greys are just the aliens that everyone expects to see.(sectiods in ufo)

They are not patented unless you make an exact copy of someone else's grey. :alien2:

6. Something like an alien pact. They work to help the aliens so that they will be better off after aliens win the war.

7. Pistol in xcom is 2 high and 1 wide, shoulder is 1 high and 2 wide. They are the same size but pistol will not fit shoulder.

 

Also consider weapons shooting through unit in battle. (Anything but a pistol should shoot through an unarmoured target.)