Hobbes Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 As far as war on global scale goes UFO Aftermath got it best IMO, where you could get local militia to aid you. This could even justify small squads - if your organization would be merely leading the global fight, coordinating the actions. An example; you get a mission and an estimated number of local troops to be led by you. Perhaps even some info on their armament. So your own soldiers would be there as commanders and most valuable troops. Local troops give an idea on global fight and X-COM is in charge of dealing with alien incursion. But the plot behind the first game is that it is not a full scale invasion and that the world governments want to keep it secret to prevent panic. XCOM is also supposed to be an elite unit and those units usually deploy/operate at a level smaller than regular troops. IIRC the premise of UFO Aftermath was that the aliens had already invaded, which then allows to have partisans, etc. On the case of UFO it would make no sense to have both XCOM and local troops involved because it would be a recipe for catastrophe (units not used to training together, coordination, chain of command etc.), plus if the regular militaries could take care of the aliens what's the reason for XCOM to exist? One final thing regarding a 'global fight' - it can have a lot of meanings. The War on Terror was presented as a global fight, but so was WW2, even though they were quite different. One thing is to see a 'global fight' as a 'total war' where every aspect of society is involved on the war effort in one way or the other. The other is to see a 'global fight' as one that can take place everywhere on the world, which is more akin to XCOM's mission. You'd have a 'global fight' against the aliens in case the entire world was fighting them - which is definitely not the situation on XCOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBlade Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Second part is up! Advanced Tactics: Exploring XCOM's Combat, Part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Second part is up! Advanced Tactics: Exploring XCOM's Combat, Part 2 Great article, thanks for the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Mmm. Now, is that a sectoid shooting through a car's windows at the assault trooper? Because if so, that's good attention to detail, most games treat cars as solid blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomb Bloke Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 So "suppression fire" can't kill unless the aliens decide to move. That's makes for odd situations like this one, with the heavy burning off rounds and completely failing to kill the Sectoid he has a near entirely clear LOF on. The heavy stopped shooting as soon as the assault trooper started moving... The mutons in the previous example didn't. It strikes me that use of the rocket launcher in this situation could've been hilarious and far more effective. We've seen two examples which use clusters of aliens; grenades would've been decently effective with either, especially since you can peg the things over cover. Heck, Cornbread had a clear LOF on alien heads as well. I know these are intended to show off certain gameplay mechanisms, but I'm not sure how important they'll be in the game proper. The Sectoid unaffected by suppression didn't bother to shoot at the assault unit running out in the open. I'm guessing the mind merge thing prevented him from firing any reaction shots that turn, which actually makes it sound like a big disadvantage for the alien side if I'm right. But didn't Kimmie have a fairly decent flanking position to start with? Why did moving magically increase her accuracy? The Sectoid who did fire at her, on the other hand, wasn't standing in the same position as he was when the suppression fire started... So presumably the heavy got a free shot at him which missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 That's makes for odd situations like this one, with the heavy burning off rounds and completely failing to kill the Sectoid he has a near entirely clear LOF on. Suppressive fire isn't really meant to kill enemies. If it does, that's nice, but that's not the point of it. You're not really shooting at an enemy but the position of a group. It strikes me that use of the rocket launcher in this situation could've been hilarious and far more effective. Yes, but as you say, this is just a demo of how flanking works. If he had used the rocket launcher, presumably the blast would wiped out the two sectoids and the article would end after three screenshots and a line of text just saying "Flanking? LOL, n00bs." I know these are intended to show off certain gameplay mechanisms, but I'm not sure how important they'll be in the game proper. Given that these are staged set-pieces on what looks like small areas, I'd imagine they'll be very important. They may not be used in simple A-B-C fashion as shown here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomb Bloke Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Suppressive fire isn't really meant to kill enemies. If it does, that's nice, but that's not the point of it. You're not really shooting at an enemy but the position of a group.Yep, I get that, but at fairly close range with sustained rapid fire, even if you're just loosely aiming in the general direction of the near fully exposed unit you'd expect a hit on it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's an artificial tactic, which should be a lot more effective then it is. Ditto for the muton spraying plasma shots next to the van when he could've just melted through the thing. I'm worried there'll be more of this sort of thing - for example, if I'm predicting the trend correctly, snipers will get accuracy buffs based on height and little else, for no other reason then to encourage players to seek high ground... Not because it actually gives them a better angle (which in an open area, yes it will, but in built up areas like these? Not so much). I'm also suspecting that the launcher specifically wouldn't've worked here due to some other abstract mechanic we haven't been introduced to yet (but if the shop door from the previous article was any hint, blowing up cover may not actually hurt the creatures hiding behind/around it). But hopefully that's all just my inner cynic getting the better of me. Really I just want to see more of the rocket launcher in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Hi! Let's see how it turns out, it looks promising to me for once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Voyager Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Where are grenades, on both sides? Looks good otherwise. Great Sectoids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer_pl Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Mmm. Now, is that a sectoid shooting through a car's windows at the assault trooper? Because if so, that's good attention to detail, most games treat cars as solid blocks. If you look closer - the van is considered high cover and small cars medium cover or low cover so it is logical that through high cover you will not be able to shoot and through low/middle one you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Strike Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 There should be grenades for the troops at least. If nothing else, some smoke, flash-bangs, tear gas, etc., to use during the mission. That Assault wouldn't have had to change anything if she had a flash-bang, and tossed it, then shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Where are grenades, on both sides? Looks good otherwise. Great Sectoids. Due to lack of funds the base quartermaster had to choose between them and toilet paper. Tough call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBlade Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I wouldn't start criticising what's missing. The videos are likely merely illustratory of game mechanics and such. I'm sure there's grenades and all, and given GI's screenshots seem to always reflect the same context, my guess is they just got a small tech demo. Or were just briefly showed part of the current development version and had to work with that limited information. By the way, about the cutscenes (the one with the Mutons and more recently, Sectoids), I remember hearing they'll be using them in-game in various dramatic occasions. That sounds good, but might be too revealing in this case, giving away the number of enemies you'll be facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Strike Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 What I meant, I was pointing out somethings I would have either put in, or added to, the game already. However, I am willing to bet that they are already there, just not shown, or used right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Voyager Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I wouldn't start criticising what's missing. The videos are likely merely illustratory of game mechanics and such.Words of wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnKill Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ahem, for those that suggested Grenades or the use of a Rocket Launcher in this scenario... Do you remember what happens in the old game when you throw a grenade or fire a rocket in the vicinity of a gas station? Not to say that I won't do it just to see shit blow up, but if I want to live, I'd probably be a bit more cautious in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer_pl Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ahem, for those that suggested Grenades or the use of a Rocket Launcher in this scenario... Do you remember what happens in the old game when you throw a grenade or fire a rocket in the vicinity of a gas station? Not to say that I won't do it just to see shit blow up, but if I want to live, I'd probably be a bit more cautious in this scenario. Another words of wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBlade Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 GI posted the full interview with Sid Meier, which is more focused on the future of strategy games than XCOM:EU. Nevertheless, it seems they added it to the game's hub. The Future Of Strategy Games: An Interview With Sid Meier I hope it's not the final article of their coverage of the game. I'm waiting for a big feature, hoping they've been saving the best for last. That or more sites coming out with brand-new information and coverage of their own. Do you remember what happens in the old game when you throw a grenade or fire a rocket in the vicinity of a gas station? And yeah, that completely flew over my head: using explosives near gas pumps = recipe for disaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Voyager Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Do you remember what happens in the old game when you throw a grenade or fire a rocket in the vicinity of a gas station? Ha, so this is what I forgot: to think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Strike Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Doesn't have to be fragmentation, or other types of those grenades. It could be things like tear gas, smoke, or even flash bangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer_pl Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 All grenades use explosion - and any spark = distaster in gas station.Still they only tried to show how you can benefit from flanking using suprression fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomb Bloke Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yes, I know what happens when you use explosives near gas pumps, but I don't understand all these negative connotations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBlade Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well, to be honest, going full-auto with a machinegun in the middle of such gas station isn't particularly wise either. And yes, there's other types of grenades. Flashbangs and smoke grenades would be nice, but tear gas and most forms of traditional chemical warfare would be unrealistic if they were effective against aliens. We're talking about a coalition of several extraterrestrial races here, not the good ol' human body, and it's very unlikely you could design a compound that'd have the wanted effect on so many different organisms. Hell, given potential differences in sensory capabilities, some species might even be immune to flashbangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 We're talking about a coalition of several extraterrestrial races here, not the good ol' human body, and it's very unlikely you could design a compound that'd have the wanted effect on so many different organisms. Hell, given potential differences in sensory capabilities, some species might even be immune to flashbangs. Field Regulation 3785 - Use of non-lethal grenades against the aliens Sectoids: no effectFloaters: recommended - makes them wobble around while flyingSnakemen: recommended - gets them high, aliens will be lazy and slow to respondMutons: not recommended - makes them even more madEthereals: no effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBlade Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Might be an interesting mechanic, now that I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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