TES V: Skyrim


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#21 The Veteran

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:10 AM

Thanks for that SV that's a pretty superb video right there! I was going to query a few things I heard and saw over the course of the video but honestly the dragons kind of shut me up :) I think this looks like it'll offer a lot more to the player than Oblivion ever did so I'll quite probably get hold of a copy sooner than I'd originally expected after seeing this...

I'm curious as to people's opinions on '150 dungeons' though. Is that a lot? I played Morrowind from one end of the continent to the otehr and I feel like there were millions of caves but perhaps that was just me... Do we know how big the world is compared to previous releases? By comparison of Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim?

I'm hopeful for the story here, it already seems that it'll far surpass the pile of rubbish that was Oblivion. I'm not sure about these dragon shouts though, I guess the story will explain how the PC is able to control these powers but it'd better be a good reason as it seems very odd to me that our protaganist can summon storms and breathe fire :P

Loving the roaming mammoths out in the Tundra, I hope there's enough of that to occupy the vast spaces of the world as I found Oblivion to be seriously lacking in that respect...
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#22 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:32 AM

In Oblivion, dungeons were all basically random modules slapped together, similar to maps in UFO but with a bit less variety. The only interest came from whether or not you could beat up the monsters inside (and that I only got from OOO). I suspect Skyrim will be similar, as you can only cram so much content onto a disc without a fair bit of recycling going on.

Morrowind didn't have much in the way of terrain variety, but all the maps and layouts were quite distinct from one another. Everything was crammed in close together too, so you were forever tripping over cave entrances. All enemies had unique names, and no humans respawned, so the world felt more "built" then "generated". The lack of fast travel made it feel larger, as you had to walk to many areas to get around (or at least to a boat/silt strider).

Watching the trailer I just couldn't help but picture my Oblivion character (multiple hundreds of speed points) bouncing from one side of those caverns to another in an instant. Morrowind characters were potentially even more broken, being able to rapid-fire 50 foot explosions as if their staves were machineguns, while traveling at speeds typically reserved for space flight (... yes, I abused the crap out of the alchemy system; throw your int stat up into the five/six figure range, you can enchant pretty much anything to do anything). The "shout" powers seem a tad mundane in comparison, and I seriously doubt they'll be anything but a useful gimmick for low/mid leveled characters. I also doubt they'll be the sum total of cool tricks to play with.

Remember, we all know at the end of the day it'll be "good"; the questions are whether it'll be possible to play for ten minutes without a crash, and how many mods will be required for the game to be truly "excellent"!
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#23 The Veteran

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 04:34 PM

Indeed, I'm looking forward to see if they retain the same level of mod-ability that the last 2 games have enjoyed. We know they won't get everything right after all, but the last few games have been pretty comprehensively 'fixed' using the millions of mods available.

As far as insane character stats go I think it's down to the way you play. My Morrowind character made the end game period an absolute breeze but I never felt superhuman and it was always impossible to max out everything anyway. I never played far enough into Oblivion to comment but realistically I think high level characters are 'rewarded' with these super-abilities for having spent weeks on end playing the game. I've never seen any of the superhuman characteristics you're talking about but in my games it's worked out just fine.
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#24 Azrael Strife

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 03:14 PM

I'll wait for mods to make it excellent before playing this time. Made the mistake of playing Oblivion all those times without them, and I got pretty pissed at the inventory / map system.

I hope storytelling is a little better in Skyrim, I've grown spoiled by Dragon Age and am expecting something just as good in my RPGs :P
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#25 The Veteran

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 04:19 PM

Though I admittedly haven't played all that far into Dragon Age, I wasn#t too impressed by it. Story or otherwise... Like I say though I quickly realised the super-hype it recieved on release didn't match my own enjoyment of it so I put it down quickly...

Back on topic (slightly) were there ever any minimap mods for Oblivion? I've used a handful of mods to fix it up enough to play a little into it in the past but the lack of a minimap essentially ruined it for me. I want a system like what Morrowind had as I'm a 'lawnmower' in open-world games and you can't do that in Oblivion...
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#26 silencer_pl

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 05:38 PM

About DA - it isn't very impressive but it is playable.

Back on topic. I have read that Skyrim is primed for consoles while PC will get a port.
Well my two cents about it - SCREW YOU BETHESDA.

Sorry for harsh language - but it is pissing me off when PC born games are now made console based ones.
And if it is a console based game moding will be limited I guess - you can't mod a console game right ?
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#27 The Veteran

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 06:21 PM

If that's true they've really taken the wrong road with it... The Elder scrolls should definitely stay on the pc with console ports, not the other way around...
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#28 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:28 PM

The Morrowind/Oblivion console ports retained the same modding support systems, but they weren't "supposed" to be user-accessible. You could download stuff off Xbox Live for Oblivion at least, but only the official mods of course (that is to say, the game expansions, such as Shivering Isles, used the modding system).

So yeah, can't see why Skyrim wouldn't use the exact same setup.
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#29 The Veteran

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 06:44 AM

Well let's hope so... I can't remember the exact mod I used for Oblivion but thee was definitely the keychain mod, saddlebags for the horses, the call horse spell, a re-skinned map texture and no psychic guards (why does every game still have these guys!?) In order to make me want to play right through the game though I need a mod to fix the lockpick 'minigame' crap and another one to give me an ever-present minimap on the mainscreen. Do either of these exist yet?

O the oblivion overhaul mod was good too :P
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#30 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:29 AM

Not aware of any minimap mod, but then, the compass was more then enough for me after Morrowind. Google turns up this.

I'm not sure what your gripe with the lockpicking game is - too easy? Hard? Just plain don't like it? OOO made lockpicking hell, as many chests in the game were scripted to fire off spells at you when opened... Some of which would one-shot my high-elf (negative elemental resistance). Spent a lot of time working Alteration for its ability to just pop things open in an instant, but you can also create spells to give an insane Security buff for just a couple of seconds.

Then there's the Skeleton Key, which never breaks. You just spam the "auto-attempt" button a few times and you'll bust through anything in a second or three.

The actual minigame I didn't mind, as I found it quite easy. Could open just about any lock the game would allow me to attempt. Never tried lockpicking in Morrowind, Alteration all the way there...
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#31 The Veteran

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:00 PM

I LOVE YOU BB!!! I am reinstalling Oblivion as we speak so a list of any essential mods would be good :) I think I'd like an infinite carry weight if that's possible. Also how easy is it to mod personally in the game? I'd like to build a stash like my Morrowind one but never tried anything like that in Oblivion...

As for the lockpicking, I certainly can't say I ever found it easy in IV but I never found it hard either. I just felt it was a complete waste of time and (as I just mentioned in another thread) it's the kind of pointless exercise that will really wind me up to the point of exploding. You know how it is, 'Very Hard' lock opens first time yet an 'easy' breaks 50 picks... Yeah that's how my luck goes!

How, when and where do I get me a skeleton key? Can I get access to it right away with a mod or something cos that'd be great... Also is the OOO you keep mentioning the Overhaul mod? I forget what the 3rd O could be for :P What other mods do you use?
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#32 Sgt. Strike

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:41 PM

Vet, I have a number of websites that may help, I'll add them here, so that all can enjoy.

http://www.alquier.org/TES/ This is a good site for load order of mods.
http://www.pixelrage...ouse-261,0.html This is one is a good read, and should have some use as to what not to add.
http://betteroblivion.com/ The name says it all.
http://www.tesnexus.com  This one here is almost the motherlode for mods. It has a bit of everything.

I have a couple more, but they are a bit racy. For those, please pm me on them. They are body mods.
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#33 The Veteran

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:44 PM

Cheers Sarge, I've always used the Nexus for my mods and I've got most of them from there again today. I've started playing and managed to mod most things to my liking so maybe I'll stick with it this time who knows?

I installed the OBMM (mod manager) and OBSE (Script Extender) so that the other mods I wanted would work and then went on to get the keychain mod to help de-clutter the awful inventory interface somewhat, BB's minimap which is just everything I could ever have asked for and more, and a file called 'Morrowind lockpicking' too. It does exactly what it says on the tin and replaces 'lockpicks' with the 4 different classes of lockpick from MW and gives them 25 uses each before they break. It also removes the minigame and causes the lockpicking to function in realtime like it used to. For some reason I can't seem to pick any locks at all now though (and that's true for the first time I started the game with no mods as well) What am I doing wrong? I put my weapon away but I can't highlight the picks in my inventory. I can still do it if I don't have security as a major skill can't I? Not sure what I'm doing wrong so advice please!

Anyway, I also have Obscuro's Oblivion Overhaul (so that's what the third O is for :P) and I've already been killed by a slaughterfish so it's going to be a rough ride I think! I included everything that comes with it which is quite a lot! The otehr mods I've tried to apply have had a varying degree of success and they're all beautification mods so you may be able to help Sarge. One is actually pretty fun as it sexes up all the female characters a bit by making them look better and giving them clothing more common with the fantasy genre in most forms of media. It's harmless fun but I think it'll make it more entertaining to explore as even bandits and the like are addressed.

On top of that one (one of colourwheels many mods) I've tried to improve both bodies and faces (and after playing a while I'd like to improve textures in general too) but they don't seem to have worked. The most recent ones I've tried are 'soya hair' and 'beautiful people', I got them both bundled, I don't care about hair so much as better faces! Anyway I had to download both originals but then use a combined ESP for them so I'm now trying to use the individual ESPs instead of the joint one. Maybe that'll work... Let me know if you have any thoughts on what alternatives I could use Sarge as it may still not work for me. I don't care either way about racy but I'm trying to improve graphics across the board really so textures are what I'm after!
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#34 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 03:32 AM

The main guide for OOO advises against making a "jack of all trades" character. This is rubbish. Whenever you walk anywhere, make sure you're casting over and over again in order to buff some school of magic or other - Restoration in particular is invaluable, but takes forever to raise.

The difficulty of a spell does not affect how much skill you gain from using it.

The best weapons in the game, as in any RPG, are swords. Forget about the other weapon schools. Use something fast and one handed so you can carry a shield. Armour with a "detect life" enchantment will also do wonders for your life expectancy.

Set your main skills to areas you don't use. This ensures that you only level up when you want to, meaning you can arrange for the maximum stat bonuses first. Main skills do level up a bit faster then others, though, and some skills level so slowly you will want the "main" bonuses - acrobatics and atheletics are two key examples.

One of the things OOO adds is the option to bash through locked chests. Can't remember how to do it, though... It's documented anyway. Not sure if this'll interfere with other lockpicking mods.

The Skeleton Key can be obtained from this quest. Note that OOO removes the silly level restrictions from Daedric quests, so you can do them whenever you're "capable". However, because it also trounces the silly level-matching system, a low-leveled character will have serious trouble fighting through the trolls in the cave (which regenerate health quite quickly) - try to find some scrolls/potions of invisibility first, or be prepared for some drawn out hit'n'run tactics.

The Daedric quests in general have decent rewards. With a bit of "alternative thinking", it's quite possible to get most of them without fighting fair. The last one, which can only be started after doing all the others, grants character bonuses that can will push you past your skill/stat caps (assuming you've already reached them).

The Bag of Holding mod is the next best thing to infinite carrying capacity (and is probably the first mod I hunted down prior to playing). Note that Oblivion has a bug where a container with too many items will fail to display its full contents (removing some will return it to normal; nothing actually gets lost) - this happens much sooner if the items are repaired past 100% (Something you can do once your Armourer stat hits sufficient levels. Train this from the word go, because the extra durability grants decent offensive and defensive bonuses).

The actual bag is found in the ruin located directly in front of you once you get out of the sewers at the start of the game. You won't be able to kill everything in there, thanks to OOO, but if you're prepared to do a bit of dodging it's possible to clean out most levels and escape in one piece with the bag.

I had issues with the keyring mod. It made certain keys go "bye-bye" when picked up. They didn't go anywhere; they just... went. I just dumped all spare keys in a bag in the end (... once I was able to afford the obscene price OOO makes you pay for Rosethorn manor).

I'd recommend going through all the guild quest lines before concentrating on any "major" mods (... other then OOO). They're all quite good (the Mage's guild in particular is probably more interesting then the main quest, and the rewards are certainly more valuable then any other in the game). Remember that if you disable a mod and save your game, all progress with that mod will then be lost.

Shivering Isles is the main "official" expansion. Worth getting if you don't already have it. Quests are fun enough and many other mods require it.

Mart's Monster Mod adds a ton of weapons, creatures and monster spawn points. Werewolves, giants, craptons of stuff. The creature leveling in MMM doesn't always mesh with OOO, though, so difficulty in certain areas may seem easier then it rightly "should". Install this one from the very start if you intend to use it at all. Ignore the crafting features it adds, they're rubbish.

I get the impression that OOO also removes some of the leveling effects from quest rewards, while MMM adds them back in. For example, in the vanilla game, quest rewards are severely nerfed if you complete them while low-level (meaning that big pretty sword WILL be useless by the time you've leveled a bit). OOO makes the rewards proportional to quest difficulty, so if you have the skill to perform a hard quest early, you'll get a bonus that'll last the game.

This is important, when you consider that you can't remove spells you learn in Oblivion. Win a crap spell at a low level, and it'll clutter your list forever. Earning an awesome spell early won't break the game anyway, as you can't cast it until you earn the skill.

The mod I've been playing the most of recently is Morroblivion. Pretty obvious what it does. It's not 100% complete... for example, Oblivion has no concept of "blindness", so the Boots of Blinding Speed give the speed and nothing else, for eg. I suspect this particular mod has doubled the time it takes for the game to start up though...

The Golden Crest grants a pirate-based quest line, and is all around very good. Unfortunately it's unfinished and probably never will be complete, but it's still got more meat then any quest line in the unmodified game.

Hentaimania is quite fun (no, it's not what it sounds like, honest!) - basically adds a ton of pretty/unique weapons/armour/costumes to the game (by adding NPCs to certain dungeons), including weapons intended for parrying. Aims to be a bit like Diablo II (the Horadric cube is one of the drops). The main downside is that it locks certain dungeons until you steal (read: loot) the keys off bosses, so again, you'll probably want to deal with the vanilla questlines first.

Midus Magic is one I intend to get to upon finishing Morroblivion. Haven't tried it but it seems to be one of the "must haves". The videos I've seen for it look pretty awesome (eg, you get wings).

There are a fair few mods around that alter the "fast travel" markers in the game. You can get some to remove them, or add more; personally I use one that adds all the Doomstones. They can be a pain to find otherwise, and since you have to mount up your fame before you can even use most of them, it's nice to be able to keep track of where they are...

There are mods that fill in the missing areas of the world, such as Elsweyr (others include Valenwood, Skyrim etc).

For performance, there's stuff like Low-Poly Grass and Streamline. BOSS is also helpful, as it attempts to work out the best load order for your mod mix automatically (certain mods "need" to be higher/lower on the list in order to function correctly).

... Now you've done it. I'll be stuck playing Oblivion for the rest of the day. Again.
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#35 Sgt. Strike

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 05:56 AM

I have a couple more sites then. I know we are all adults, and everything I send here is relatively pg-13, anyway.

http://kalikut.silgr...m/ob_mods1.html Is one sight you can get interesting stuff from. Armors and what not.
This one I have to warn about if it's not kosher, then you will have to pm me for it:
http://www.uesp.net/...emale_Eye_Candy

Anyway, I'm downloading mods myself, a bit at a time. I'm also categorizing them as well, so I can keep them organized.
When all else fails, CHEAT!!!

#36 The Veteran

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 10:18 PM

Cheers for the uber post BB :) I made my own class but went with the generic 'Adventurer' name as my brain wasn't really with me at the time... I think my Major skills are Restoration, Blade, Block, Athletics, Acrobatics, Light Armour AND Heavy Armour. I figure that way I can wear whatever I find at any point in the game :P I may have one of those mistaken for marksmanship however as I do like sniping when possible!

Anyway not played very much yet but the level of enemies does seem to be all over the place thanks to Obscuro! It makes for a very unpredictable game which is probably good but I remember I always used this before anyway so we'll see how I get on this time round! Got the minimap working now and the keychain too. Wish the horses were a bit faster but I'm loathed to keep adding more mods at the rate I currently am!

About this bag of holding, where the heck is it? I'm in the ruins mentioned and am systematically eradicating it's inhabitants but there's been no sign of it yet and now I'm locked in a room with an automatic gate behind me and a hard door in front... I have 5 lockpicks but because of my mod they work like morrowind ones. Sadly, they don't seem to be able to pick the 'average' ayleid chest in the room which holds the key to the exit... Even the Master's lockpick I happen to have isn't doing the job so I'll try again tomorrow with that mod disabled I guess, unless you can remember how to bash chests?

EDIT : here's the UESP wiki of the ruins you said it's in Bag of holding

Sarge, I'm not really so bothered about new items in the game, I'm just looking to make what's already there look better :) I actually already have the Eye Candy mod though. It's fine and all but to be honest it only makes a difference when people are nude... I tend not to see many nude people so it's pretty redundant :) It's the faces that I'm finding let everything down. One mod I'm using edits the NPC files to make them 'more attractive' but using the same textures. Another one is Beautiful People which is meant to change face textures rather drastically but personally it feels like I don't have it running at all so may change it.

I think there's something called 'Natural faces' out there which I could try. Might improve it a little. There's also a big mod with a similar name 'Natural Oblivon' maybe. It has better textures for the sky, and pretty much everything else from what I can tell! Maybe give that a go as I can't help but feel this game seems a lot older than it actually is when I'm sat playing it :)
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#37 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:34 PM

View PostThe Veteran, on 11th June 2011, 8:18am, said:

About this bag of holding, where the heck is it?
You'll eventually reach a level with a large amount of swinging blade traps (save whenever you enter a new level if you don't immediately know what I'm talking about, as these will one-shot you). In it is a chamber containing a necromage, a ghost knight, and a ghost wolf. Any of these will easily kill you (you'll need special gear to even damage the undead), so don't stick around - run in, grab the bag located slap bang in the middle of things (can't miss it, it's on an alter and everything), then run out.

If you have difficulty getting away, try running up the stairs to the side of the room, then when you reach the broken railing higher up jump back into the area below. The monsters will path find their way back down the stairs, meaning you can flee back through the blade traps.

Don't go thinking the blades will take down the monsters. They won't. Keep running until you get back into the city, as the guards there will be able to take them down if you're still being followed.

View PostThe Veteran, on 11th June 2011, 8:18am, said:

can remember how to bash chests?
I looked it up. You have to have a weapon drawn and not be in sneak mode. Attempt to open the chest, and it should instead just glow purple. Now start wailing on it using only power attacks. Time taken depends on your damage potential versus the difficulty of the lock.

The docs say something about interruptions cancelling the process, but I'm not sure if that means "monsters on the other side of doors" or "getting hit".
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#38 The Veteran

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:09 AM

I found it in the end but had no weapon to kill the ghosties :) Having been informed that one of the enemies in the room 'had the bag' I assumed that meant on his person so I used a console 'kill' command on the ghosts as I couldn't touch them... Got the bag, looted the heck outta the place and left :P

I too have been reading up on lock bashing and although I'm doing exactly what it tells me too it still won't work. It lets me try the first time but as soon as I do it once it becomes impossible. If I try again it says 'there is no time for lockpicking or lockbashing' and if I try to lockpick in the normal way it says 'can't lockpick while in combat' which is BS as there are no enemies anywhere thanks to the kill command lol

Thankfully there is also a console command for 'unlock' so I'm going to ignore all lockpicks and mods and just use the console for it in future. Crap I know but afaic they messed up the game by changing the process from Morrowind. I won't use the kill command again but I needed the bag :) Where do you suggest I go from here? I already went to old Jauffre and got Paint but not sure if I should head straight to Kvatch or try to level a bit first...
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#39 Sgt. Strike

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 04:08 AM

I personally like the mod that adds backpacks to the game, and are fairly large in size, etc. What I personally would like is a key ring type thing, a scroll case type deal, and a gem bag. All of course from a slightly different game, Baldur's Gate II.
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#40 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:06 AM

View PostThe Veteran, on 11th June 2011, 10:09am, said:

Where do you suggest I go from here? I already went to old Jauffre and got Paint but not sure if I should head straight to Kvatch or try to level a bit first...
Stay away from the main quest line, certainly do all you can to avoid triggering the Oblivion gates over the world until you're high-level enough to really enjoy them. The arena in the Imperial City is a good warm up for a brand new character. You won't be able to do it all in one go with OOO active, but it's a good excuse to hit things without wandering too far away from town. Save before you initiate each arena battle.

Horses aren't all they're cracked up to be. Yes, they're faster, but they're not as fast as "fast travel" is and you can't do anything while riding one. If you must have a horse, though, go murder someone and join the dark brotherhood. They'll give you an ubermount if you stick with them a while, but they don't have much to offer other then that.

Thieve's guild is fun, and you need to at least join in order to sell stolen stuff. Mage's guild questline is probably the best in the game, and the rewards are definitely the best. Fighter's guild is, unfortunately, rubbish. Way too much combat for a low-level character to progress swiftly, and there's no rewards that I can even remember.

If, on the other hand, you want a "challenge" that's available from the get-go, read books. There's one about vampires that, when read, starts a quest to find a sword. If you can locate the dungeon it mentions you'll find that the vampires it contains are all high level - kill even one and you'll get some very potent rewards. Get the actual sword and you'll have a weapon that could potentially last you the game. Don't expect to achieve either task without a lot of leveling (or at the least a bit of cunning), but if you can somehow do so early on, you'll be a lot more powerful as a result.

If you have difficulty staying alive while wandering the world, I found summon spells to be the way to go - that and the occasional potion will get you out of most scraps. Summons also allow you to recharge soul gems, and because enchantments don't auto-regen in Oblivion, that's a huge plus point. Remember to carry tons of repair hammers everywhere and use them on everything and anything you loot.
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