Diplomacy


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#1 silencer_pl

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 06:50 PM

I am playing now second scenario mission where I have to find 5 alien derelicts. I'm trying to make peace with alien races to expand peacfully. But although I get casfire treaty Ai attacks either way and if I defend they cancel casefire. Also I have reached Alliance packed with on of them and I get each turn information that my alliance was canceld and next turn that we are united again. Also one of the races attacks me - in manuall fight they propose casefire - then treaty is signed but after 2 turns bam - they have more ships on my planet and they don't want piece anymore.

What gives - am I missing something ?
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#2 Veki

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:09 AM

Yes, you're missing the fact that AI is a cheating bastard. :(
Ceasefire != peace. AI uses it to make you feel safe when in fact it's building ships and preparing to strike you. :(

But seriously, ceasefire is not a peace treaty. It just means you're not in active war with a race. You can both still attack each other without penalty. As for alliance on-off thing, that is a bug, I think.

#3 silencer_pl

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:42 AM

Then what is the point of casefire
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#4 Ulzgoroth

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 03:29 PM

View Postsilencer_pl, on 6th November 2011, 6:42am, said:

Then what is the point of casefire
It helps put the AI in a peaceable mood, I think (but no guarantees they'll actually make peace!), and keeps your ships from picking fights at un-occupied planets while allowing them at colonies.  It's not so good for expanding peacefully since enemy ships over your new colonies will result in a fight, but it can reduce the violence of scouting.

None of the treaties are 'hard', though.  The AI can rapidly switch in and out of them, just like any player.  Don't assume they'll hold to the treaty indefinitely just because they signed it.  Don't let the Hivers gate your worlds just because you're currently at peace!

There's also an issue where the AI winds up on the edge between preferred diplomatic states and flips back and forth, resulting in rapid-fire make/break alliances.

#5 silencer_pl

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:14 PM

Then it is implemented badly - In civilisaion series if you had casfire treaty you couldn't attack until the treaty was over (20 turns). Same would go for NAPs and alliances but if I am allied I am for good and worse. Naps can be broken but you must clearly state that you want war. Its something here like this - Hey we are at piecie but I don't like your colonies so screw you...
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#6 Space Voyager

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 07:44 AM

Veki explained it correctly. Ceasefire is not non-aggression pact. It does not end a war, it halts current battlefield hostilities. But during a ceasefire nobody is expected to march an army into enemy city or headquarters peacefully. March it there and there will be a battle. In SotS terms it goes for colonies.

AI does not usually attack your colonies during a ceasefire unless it had that agenda all along - but it does have a problem when an army was already en-route. It has a general problem with redirecting fleets (it just never redirects them) so offering a ceasefire will not protect you from an incoming fleet.

It is a step towards a non-aggression pact though and offering or accepting it is taken as an act of good will. If you abuse it and take your fleet past the defenders to AI colonies... it is not taken lightly, naturally.

Frankly the way you describe a ceasefire in Civ it seems to be pretty weird system they have there.

#7 silencer_pl

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:01 AM

Actually it is good system there - casefire means I don't attack you - you don't attack me but that dosen't make us friends. Here it is simply useless. Though we have casefire we can attack each other freely. Well especialy AI tends to. And AI sometimes tends to forget we had a NAP and attacks colonies but if my defences are stronger he then goes peacefull and again we have NAP.

If AI has such a behaviour then how can you complete special projects with it if it keeps attacking you even on NAPs - I think the only way is to be in team.
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#8 Space Voyager

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 09:22 AM

View Postsilencer_pl, on 7th November 2011, 9:01am, said:

And AI sometimes tends to forget we had a NAP and attacks colonies but if my defences are stronger he then goes peacefull and again we have NAP.
This is a diplomacy bug. One that is promised to be squashed in an update that should arrive after SotS2 is free of game breaking bugs.

Which may take quite some time, judging by Kerberos forums...  :(

#9 Veki

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:19 PM

It's been a while since I played Civ games, but if I remember correctly cease-fire works pretty much the same there. Usually AI won't attack you during cease-fire, but if it finds a nice target it will break cease-fire and attack you.

I'm glad to hear there will be an update for SotS, SV. I hope it will come, as they said, after they fix that mess of SotS2. :(




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