Slythe1 Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 It happened. I've never seen it before. My base was attacked by floaters and after killing 20 aliens, their next turn I see the messages that a floater leader, floater commander, and reaper, have all panicked. Thought it was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 That's a good one! Reapers are fairly easy to panic - the commander and leader are a little more difficult. Just a couple of questions though: 1) What difficulty level were you playing on?Aliens seem to panic more on the easier levels. 2) How did you kill the Floaters?Did you use a blaster bomb and nuke a bunch of them one round? Group kills seem to reduce morale faster than say, one kill every round. ------------ By the way, does anyone know how much an aliens moral drops after an X-COM soldier kills one of his buddies? For example, an X-COM soldier kills a Floater Soldier in round 1. How many points (or percent) of morale are lost for each of the following aliens: Floater Soldier (another soldier)Floater NavigatorFloater MedicFloater EngineerFloater LeaderFloater CommanderReaper And going down the line, how many points of morale are lost to the various ranks if a navigator gets creamed? Are the points related to the aliens victory points or is this number different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slythe1 Posted May 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 I had been picking off the floaters and reapers one and two a turn as they'd exit the access lift then get shot down by my soldiers. Eventually after killing 20 the last few aliens back in the hangars who had dropped their weapons started panicking, including a reaper, leader, and commander, all in the same turn. This is on superhuman. Oh the first thing the reaper did was go berserk. I can't imagine that'd do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I can't say for sure, but xcomutil may have some options for viewing alien stats. And the morale level is somewhere in the unitref.dat file, though I don't remember where exactly... let's see... oh, yeah. It's 59th byte in every soldier record in unitref.dat file. This record describes every soldier and alien in the battlefield and it's overall length is 132 bytes. So anyone that is intrested can check* the value of that byte after he's killed some alien to see the morale drop. *For that you'll need some bin editor like MS Edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKF Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 It's 124 bytes. I've actually been thinking about creating a battlescape unit stat viewer (and maybe display a few other statistics not normally displayed, such as the unit's current reaction score). I'm part way through it, actually, I just need to come up with a decent command line interface of some sort. I can probably whip up a very basic viewer if you want. Just let me know what stats you need to see and I'll compile it and put a copy in a temporary directory on my webpage. Do keep in mind that having high ranked soldiers on your team will reduce overall morale loss for your lower ranked soldiers (and it will increase morale loss should they get killed). So do keep that in mind when doing your comparisons. - NKF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Sorry for the confusion everyone. What I am trying to get at is this : Example 1 - A Floater Soldier gets killed by any X-COM soldier. Ok? It does not really matter which of your soldiers did the actual killing - I am after the resulting morale of the remaining aliens on the mission, not the X-COM soldiers. So then:How many points of morale are lost to another Floater Soldier?How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Navigator?How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Medic?How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Engineer?How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Leader?How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Commander?How amny points of morale are lost to a Reaper? Example 2 - A Floater Navigator gets killed by an X-COM soldier.How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Soldier?How many points of morale are lost to another Floater Navigator?How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Medic? ... and so on. Example 3 - A Floater Medic gets killed by an X-COM soldier.How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Soldier?How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Navigator?How many points of morale are lost to another Floater Medic?How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Engineer? ... and so on. And so on down the line until the Floater Commander. Since there is only one Floater Commander on a given mission, you cannot get a value for morale loss for another Commander. (You can get a value for the other aliens though). Example 4 - A Reaper gets killed by an X-COM soldier.How many points of morale are lost to a Floater Soldier?...How many points of morale are lost to another Reaper? Understand now? Points of morale lost to an alien might be figured using percents, because X-COMs soldiers are found this way. In the OSG by Dave Ellis (pg. 189) shows morale loss of a soldier (rookie/squaddie) when a Sergeant dies: 20%Captain dies: 30%Colonel dies: 50%Commander dies: 75% It does not state what would happen to let's say the Sergeant when your Commander dies, or the Captain when a Colonel dies. This is because these numbers are based off a rookie or squaddie dying. Help anyone?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkinhead Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 All Floater ranks, as well as the Reaper, have a bravery stat of 80, so they would all panic just as easily as each other after losing 30pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomb Bloke Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Note that if you kill an alien that is under your control, your units lose the morale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman4117 Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Just have a mass execution at the end of the battle. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Pumpkinhead Posted on Jun 29 2004, 09:20 AM All Floater ranks, as well as the Reaper, have a bravery stat of 80, so they would all panic just as easily as each other after losing 30pts. Thanks Pumpkinhead, that makes a lot of sense! I can't figure out why I never thought of that! I figured that maybe Victory Points played a role in morale. It just seems natural that a Floater Commander would wreak more havoc on the surviving aliens' morale than the death of a Floater Engineer would. I guess that this is next on my long list of things to check out in the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkinhead Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 I really wish my game didn't crash back to the Geoscape all the time so I could do some experimenting of my own I guess I'll just have to wait for your CSG to be released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Ever think of getting X-COM for like, the Playstation? Sure, the loading times can be long, and you would have to make an investiment with some $$$ to get a PS1 and a game disc. But at least the PS1 does not crash like the computer version seems to do. I have both copies of the game and they run good. I feel for people who cannot get their game to run the way it was meant to! You already know part of the information that is contained in my CSG. I give it to you here! And no, the CSG will be free to the public when I finish it. It is a labor of love, but I would gladly accept a donation if it helps people out! Same for your online UFOpaedia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkinhead Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 I spent months putting together that bloody thing! I'm sure Pete and all the other fan-site hosts can sympathise with the whole "labour of love" concept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 I am a year and a half into my Comprehensive Strategy Guide and every time one thing is finished, I turn around and there is 10 or 15 more things to investigate or test! Those 1000 soldier lists, and 1000 reloads for Countries funding in the start of the game all take time. It does not get done within the day, week, or sometimes month! I have probably logged more hours testing the damn game than actually playing it for fun! I have got to start playing more for fun. But when guys like you pose a question that I do not know... *rushes off to test some things* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkinhead Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Amazingly, I managed to play an entire mission without it crashing! I got down some preliminary data:Each alien soldier killed results in 6pts of morale lost to their team-mates.The navigator I killed resulted in 7pts of morale.When the MC'd Navigator killed a fellow soldier, it resulted in 10pts.However, the results were confusing for several reasons:Morale seems to be regenerated: Forgetting about a soldier I'd MC'd who had 82pts, I got back to him several turns later and he had full morale of 100pts.This regen doesn't seem to apply to all: Despite that particular Muton returning to 100pts, the Navigator I found later on, still had enough Morale loss to account for each death since the start of the mission. In other words, he hadn't regenerated at all.It doesn't seem uniform: After killing several Mutons in a forest, they all received 6pts each, yet when I went into the UFO, I found that the Mutons inside all had varying Morale. My assumption from this is that it must be based on proximity to the kill. They must have to see or hear the death to be effected.I'd like to see what sort of results you guys might come up with when you get a chance to check it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehm 98 Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 i think it is probably one of those random percentage things. Also, maybe the noncombatant aliens(navigators and engineers) dont' regain moral as fast or at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkinhead Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 I guess we'll just have to wait and see if someone gets the time to crack it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehm 98 Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 ahem. NKF!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKF Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 What? Eh... Here's a thought I was going to post but I hit the browser's back button instead of clicking submit, because after thinking about it, I thought it was a pretty obvious thought. But anyway, I'll say it now: Navigators are much higher in rank than a soldier. Higher ranks means slower morale loss. Losing a higher ranked unit causes heavier morale loss. At least that's the impression I got from reading the game manual. From practice, your own higher ranked soldiers do cause heavy morale loss when they get killed, and they don't lose morale as quickly when a rookie dies for example. But I don't know if they have a group effect. I could probably set up a game to test this, but I need to work out how the rank of the units are stored. X-Com's are stored in running order, but the aliens seem to have their ranks stored in reverse for some reason. One thing I'd like to know though: How much morale does a target lose when the target gets hit by a bullet and is hurt by it? It's probably based on how much damage was done. - NKF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkinhead Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I was under the impression that morale was only effected if a unit was killed Hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehm 98 Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 it lowers if they are shot at i think. Theis game has tons of percentages though, so it probably has something like if <unit> hit and <armor> >= <damage>, Then <unit> <Bravery> <= <damage>/<Fatal> You get the idea. The game needs to simple itself up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkinhead Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 If was simpler, I don't think it was be as good, and it would give us nothing to work out and discuss You'd come to the board and someone would post, "A+B=C", and we'd all look at it and agree... and then be bored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehm 98 Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Well, maybe it would be easier to learn what it means though. INstead of speculating "Wonder what this does?" "I dunno." we will be talking more like modern people and not like cavemen(not like its better, or anything) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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