Future X-com games suggestion thread

[jverne]

Commentary:

 

Moderators: I posted the same thread in the news section but apparently there's nowhere to be found...i'm guessing it didn't even post, so here's a duplicate.

 

OK, first of all i have no idea if this is the right section to put this here, so feel free to move it somewhere more appropriate.

I think there is not already a similar thread open.

 

Yes it's really early to make one because we don't know squat about the upcoming game, but IMO this is the best time, before the devs come up with concrete plans that can't be changed. Once the game is further in development it's hard to change. I've seen this happen to one of my beloved series Fallout.

 

This is not obligatory but PLEASE, PLEASE keep your ideas in a organized and readable fashion (paragraphs, short/er). It would also be great if you separate commentaries not connected to the game ideas (as can be seen from this post). That's because from all suggestion threads i've seen (of other games) all were completely cluttered and illegible, no way any dev would spend that much time to read all trough the ideas in that style.

 

Let me start, well this is just the ideas i have right now in mind at 2:20 AM, so i'll be adding more as i go.

 

Suggestion/ideas:

 

 

Critical issues:

-please don't water down the game, keep it serious, scary and real

-don't trash micromanagement, but automatize it for beginner players. I guarantee you that once that newbie is half trough it he'll appreciate the added custom-ability. Add proper help tips easily accessible, even the average Xbox player will eventually learn it.

-All i need is two or three difficulty modes...BEGINNER (for newcomers), HARD (for old fans)

-don't make it too short, replayability! (more possible endings)

-...that's all i can think of the critical issues right now

 

Story/plot:

 

-a complete restart. I think the x-com series went too far story wise, besides i love contemporary times mixed with high tech future equipment. I'd start it at 2010.

-Even better if set in an after-war world (major cities destroyed,...), but not critical

-I'd love it if the first half of the game you're more or less reliant on homegrown equipment.

-If anyone watched "The andromeda strain" you'd realize that it kept you tense till the very end. Therefore try to keep the plot as mysterious till late in the game. This is basically the essence of x-com!

 

 

Playing style:

 

if 3D tactical shooter (no plane/base management...)->

 

-one word (and a number) SWAT 4. Of course many more tactical features. But the core should be tactical like the SWAT games, not some arcady sh**.

 

if old school style->

 

-minimum everything Xcom1 had, plus elements of Apocalypse.

-i'd like active pause more than turn based

-3d view is the only logical decision.

-please make graphics and physics count. Shadows for stealth and destructible environment for...hehe

-make dogfights more interactive, i don't want a Flight sim, but at least let me choose fight attitudes, weapons, aircraft types, equipment (radars,...). basically an Xcom1 on steroids (apocalypse would be a bit un-fiesable for the whole geoscape)

-base managment, meh...more or less like the first game

 

 

Ideas from other games (UFO series specifically and fallout tactics):

 

-give those games a look.

-i like the added mission varieties

-smaller but memorable squad

-incapacitating enemies, soldiers a good idea (plus look hot fallout tactics handled medics)

-i loved the larger arsenal of homegrown weapons

-also the ability to distinguish handguns, rifles, heavy,...

-MAJOR AWESOMENESS was the fact that enemies were more damage specific or resistant to certain attacks

-the fact i could use earth weapons late in the game (major plus IMO)

 

 

Random ideas:

 

-it feels really gratifying if you can see the actual effect the weapon has on enemies (gibbing, blood, blows them away)

-i'd make it so that you have to research and later develop your version of an alien weapon, not that you can just use what aliens drop off. (see District 9 for ideas)

-as for tactics, take a look at modern low intensity warfare

[jverne]

how peculiar...not even one reply. is it because nobody cares, or a poorly made thread, or to early?

[Hobbes]

There has been rumors of a new X-COM game in the works for years. To be honest I've long stopped paying attention to them because either the studio goes bankrupt, the rights are sold to another company who has no plans for the trademark or no one simply cares about X-COM at the company.

 

Whatever there's really a new game in the works it is highly doubtful that they would pay any attention to what the fans want, unless the guys designing it were fans of the series themselves.

[Azrael Strife]

Personally I've seen literally hundreds of threads over at xcomufo containing suggestions of what a new X-Com should have to post yet more

[Zombie]

how peculiar...not even one reply. is it because nobody cares, or a poorly made thread, or to early?

Not too early, we've been discussing this on and off for a while in the X-COM Resurrection thread here, at xcomufo.com, at the x-com wiki, on the net, etc. It's probably more of a case of being burnt out on the discussion. I mean, I'd kill to have a new X-COM game, but discussing it over and over again just get's tiresome if there isn't any indication that the rights-holders are reading them or taking them to heart. (And like the lyrics to The Christmas Song - "Although it's been said, many times, many ways...", the result is always the same: a lot of talk).

 

At this point in time, no one is even sure if the supposed X-COM game(s) are being worked on anymore. It's been years since someone has let anything slip, and with a project of this size and importance you would expect that to happen every once and a while. Also, with the tough economic times, game company layoffs and downsizing, everything could have been shelved... again. After enough people cry wolf, you begin to ignore the rumors and focus on other, more fruitful, activities (like playing the original X-COM)!

 

Whatever there's really a new game in the works it is highly doubtful that they would pay any attention to what the fans want, unless the guys designing it were fans of the series themselves.

Ken Levine (who is supposedly head of the X-COM game in development) is reported to be a huge fan of the original game. But being a fan and listening to other fans are two different things as we both know.

 

- Zombie

[The Veteran]

While it would be brilliant to see a new XCom I'm probably one of those in the small minority who is hoping the rumours aren't true this time around. The reason behind this is probably obvious to anyone who's been actively checking the new topics here at strategy core but for anyone who's missed it and a little free advertising it's all because of Project Cololisation!

 

We started our own fan made successor years ago and it waxed and waned several times before being basically forgotten in about 2007 due to real life issues being faced by the core team. Now it's back and this time I'll be damned if I'm going to let other peoples real-life commitments get in the way of it as for me this project IS my real life commitment!

 

I have a good team already working on the game and this time around we're doing it the way all games are made with the right documentation, a properly structured team and good resource management.

 

The main problem we're facing with attracting attention to our own project is similar to the reason this thread is quite quiet. The fact is everyone has heard it all before and noone will buy it until there's a new game on the shelves! Well maybe you need to stop looking at companies that keep going bust and start looking closer to home where we've started off with no money anyway! We're not about to sell out on this so it's just a matter of time!

 

The fact is, the more support we get, the less time it'll take and the more of what you actually want to see in a new game will be included in this one! So take your suggestions over to Project Colonisation in the special projects forums and tell us what you'd like to see! You'll get the jist of what we're already working on if you do a little homework!

[Civilian]

There is ONE single thing that keeps games like Xcom and Diablo fresh and interesting for years: Random maps! I don't know why so many game developers are unable to recreate that simple feature.

 

Games like UFO:Extraterrestrial or UFO:AI are nice and good, but they lack one important thing: The Replay value. The list of Games that are good but are "One-Hit-Wonders" is endless, the list of games that are eternally (well almost) playable is short but everybody will know those games, simply because they are great.

 

Xcom

Diablo 1 + 2

Most Rogue-Likes

 

It is no wonder those games are still supported and loved today, because all their eye-candy follow-ups and clones did miss to include the ESSENTIAL ingredient of those games: The Dynamic Campaign/Terrain/Maps!

 

One example: Sacred 2. It is a wonderful game with breathtaking graphics, good balance etc etc, it surpasses Diablo 2 in many ways. But once you played through it you will NEVER have the desire to play it again, simply because you have seen it all. There is nothing left to surprise and interest you anymore.

 

Forget 3D, forget Graphics, forget ANYTHING, but simply make the game replayable. Easy as that.

[The Veteran]

Sterling point Civ! I think it's a real shame that these games have dropped the ball on such an important feature of these games as you're quite right, replayability is a must! I have a lot of games that I loved completing but will never complete again, but XCom is not one of those games...

 

It even seems strange that they seem to have taken what must be a harder to code approach to their games by simply designing a dozen or so set level designs and reusing them over and over. How much code would it really take to divide each of their standard maps up into just 4 quarters and then randomly assemble those segments when the mission loads? Just by doing this they would be providing 2400% more maps!

 

Imagine how many more possibilities the original XCom had when each mission contained 36 individual map segments and I have no idea how many different tiles per set. Even then they weren't happy and continued to make a variety of tilesets for urban/rural/desert/snow and forest environments just for starters.

 

Even TFTD took it further than these new games and that was set on the seabed 90% of the time. It still featured multiple tile sets and even included sunk ships and aircraft! Then there were the odd atlantis tile-sets and even bizarre underwater research stations! Even though it used set elements of coast for things like port attacks and island terror missions they still had a massive variety of combinations with a host of interesting and challenging segments. Anyone remember the strange spiral bunker on the island terror sites? Couldn't even throw a grenade in there safely and that's what made it a good piece of terrain but you wouldn't want it on every level in the same damn place with the same alien in the same location with the same preset route.

 

If UFO got it right 20 odd years ago why are people trying to fix it now? It's clearly not a broken concept...

[Civilian]

I guess game developers are simply very short-sighted and think that they can make more money by producing more and more addons instead of making one good game. But even that is wrong, they can still make addons AND make the game and the addons dynamic/random, there is no need to chose between those concepts. (see Diablo 2 + addon).

 

Surely Diablo 2 and the addon sold a LOT more often than e.g. Sacred 2.

 

I mean, they still sell it now after all those years, but do you see Sacred 1 anywhere in the shops? Nope. Even the rather new Sacred 2 addon is already dissapearing in the bargain bins.

 

Another reason might be laziness by the programmers. I mean, it takes one more line of code and one more test-run to implement those feature, who would even dare to include something work-intensive like that

[NKF]

Even with games with a limited number of pre-set maps, if they give you many ways of accomplishing your goals, then it's not too far off.

 

Look at games like Fallout 1/2, Ultima Underworld 1/2 and even Systemshock 2. I dare say Deus Ex fits that bill too. Just to name a few games. All the maps are the same - Fallout 1/2 was terrible in that almost every wilderness battle was on the same nearly blank desert map, with minor variation depending on region. Certainly got old very fast.

 

However, these games were really nice to replay because of how you can choose to approach the battles or puzzles or how you build the character. Some of them had almost freeform gameplay in that you could go off and do your own thing most of the time. But not too freeform that you end up wandering aimlessly around wondering what to do next!

 

That's replayability in a different guise. But I do yearn for a game that can randomly generate outdoor terrain and scenery. With today's knowledge and technology, I'm sure it's not impossible.

 

- NKF

[The Veteran]

Well how about applying the fairly simple mission generator of UFO and TFTD to individual tiles as well as the map as a whole? Take the barns on farm levels for example, what if the hay bales were in different places every time? Or maybe a better example would be the crates in the warehouses on terror missions as these actually make good cover. Even things like park tiles which only have a few trees and bushes on could get mixed up a bit and why not even take it one step further and instead of composing a map of 26 tiles why not use one big blank map (so blank grass for farm/country) and then have things like barns, plowed fields and orchards as placeable anywhere so we would lose the uniform arrangement that was present in the original xcoms. This may be the best idea as any hardcore XCommer knows exactly what the level is going to consist of as soon as they see the corner square of a new map tile but move the items and landmarks around a bit and have a bit of a juggle and it becomes a much more natural terrain generator. It probably wouldn't take much to even introduce item rotation so our barns are all at different angles. The only prerequisite for this would be that the battlescape itself was free from limitations in the sense of the original XComs (and most other similar games) had square grids allowing for limited movement.

 

That would make a good generator though in my opinion. Start with a blank map of whatever tileset you're working in then randomly place buildings, terrain features and other large landmarks such as fields and orchards for example. Place these at random positions and random angles to create a realistic believable and living landscape and then populate any remaining spaces of a certain size with preset items such as trees bushes or other scrub etc. dependant of course on the tile set in use.

 

You are absolutely guaranteed a different map evry time you play. And I'm going to talk to my devs about making it happen lol

[NKF]

Exactly my line of thought there. Start with blank map. Throw in a couple of elements (houses, 'themed' areas, and other natural objects). Woodlands for example could have little 'tree clump magnets' dropped down at random around a grassy field, and then a selection of various trees and underbrush segments are clumped together around this point. Throw in various other fun scenery elements. Instant outdoorsy fun.

 

With 3d maps, you can even go a bit further and raise/lower the terrain randomly, with a bit of smoothing so that you don't get sharp jagged dips. Urban or human made areas could have a designated flat area where it can be built up with its own special rules, like roads, railroad tracks, trails, etc.

 

Of course, I guess it's easier said than done. But the ideas are there and I'm sure they can be realized somehow.

 

I guess one of the appeal of all the fixed maps we see (and the reason why we see a lot of it) is that it's easy for the programmers to coordinate the AI. The programmers can make AI to learn the maps or throw down hints (like UFO's nodes) to the AI so that it knows how to behave and work around the map and make a lot of trouble for the player. Hordes of enemies can be made to pop up here and there. It's all scripted to an extent.

 

- NKF

[The Veteran]

Yeah but the chances are if somethings easy to do it's probably not worth doing in the first place. It's only when things get harder that the rewards increase. Surely even if the devs want to take the easy route there are good enough designers involved in these projects to know that cutting corners won't help the game sell in the long run and will simply result in people getting bored very fast!

 

Bit of a false economy methinks...

[jverne]

comment:

 

well i thank you for your replies, but there goes the organization.

actually you mentioned some suggestions, maybe some day a dev might read them. it won't hurt to be a bit more organized, cause you never know, right?

 

anyways...i just like to comment on non-profit game developers. i say, keep doing the good work. but sadly i doubt any non profit game dev could make a modern complex game in their free time with no pay. professional game developers spend 8-10 hours a day making the game. they are paid and have a strong manager. i just don't see how an amateur team could rival them. not to be insulting, but let's be real about it.

[The Veteran]

Wow way to support the community jverne... Why exactly do you think we're an amateur team? And exactly how many man hours do you perceive as going into this and other similar projects on a daily basis? Yes you're right that it's going to take more time and a lot of dedication to complete a low-budget project than it would a professional build but I think you're completely missing the point. How many developers have started to make a new XCom and then given up, gone bankrupt and sold out? Groups like ours are absolutely the best chance you have of ever seeing another game but if you don't want to play it then that's fine too! Maybe you should think about who you're talking to next time before you decide what to say.

[Civilian]

jverne, ever heard of Tetris? ONE hobby programmer made it in his free time and believe it or not, he had some success with that game. Some....

 

I'd suggest you take a look at pages like scourceforge and rethink your somewhat one-sided opinion.

 

Of course I could list more games here like Battle for Wesnoth or Spring etc etc, but I guess it's better if you discover yourself how completely and utterly wrong you were with your statements.

[Zombie]

Step back and look at this from a different perspective though. How many fan-based X-COM projects are completely playable? None. The odds aren't good. How many commercially produced X-COM spinoffs are there? 2-4 depending on how you look at it (UFO Extraterrestrials, UFO Aftershock, UFO Aftermath and UFO Afterlight). See where I'm going with this?

 

That said, supporting the fan-based projects out there is the only way fans will ever see a proper X-COM game we want to play - not a game a developer want's us to play. Big difference. Plus, fan-produced games are generally free and don't tax our computers as much. We wish you all the best, The Veteran.

 

- Zombie

[The Veteran]

Thanks Zombie it's much appreciated. Hopefully one day I'll be able to prove the curse wrong and we'll all finally have something new to play! Till then though you're support is more than appreciated!!!

[Hobbes]

Step back and look at this from a different perspective though. How many fan-based X-COM projects are completely playable? None.

 

I know UFO2000 doesn't have the Geoscape implemented but the tactical combat is completely playable

[jverne]

Wow way to support the community jverne... Why exactly do you think we're an amateur team? And exactly how many man hours do you perceive as going into this and other similar projects on a daily basis? Yes you're right that it's going to take more time and a lot of dedication to complete a low-budget project than it would a professional build but I think you're completely missing the point. How many developers have started to make a new XCom and then given up, gone bankrupt and sold out? Groups like ours are absolutely the best chance you have of ever seeing another game but if you don't want to play it then that's fine too! Maybe you should think about who you're talking to next time before you decide what to say.

 

hey hey wait. why so defensive? i'd love to have a fan made game. never said i wouldn't.

i totally support you in your quest.

but from my experience fan based non-profit games are mostly less complex games that can be made with a smaller team. you can't compare tetris and let's say...Half-life 2.

that doesn't mean they can't be fun.

amateur games take a looong time to develop and are often very buggy and partially made and if one miraculously succeeds then they usually want to make it profitable.

 

complex amateur games are rare.

 

as i've said...please do continue with your work, no reason why we can't have both. don't take it so personally.

[Bomb Bloke]

Don't like the Tetris analogy? How about Counter-Strike, then?

 

Anyway, the mistake you're making is in stating that "non-commercial" = "amateur". I assure you, many of the best bits of software have been produced outside of the commercial market. Heck, even Windows incorporates public domain code (as the source leak of Windows 2000 revealed).

 

Granted, for every gem out there, there are a hundred or more failures. This is true. But you can't expect developers to take that well if you point it out to them (especially when you consider that they already know) - it sounds like you're implying something about their project.

 

Personally, I've got to the point where I feel no new game would ever live up to what I've dreamed up in my head. It'd have to be something like Alliance crossed with UFO crossed with Dungeon Keeper crossed with the Sims crossed with Syndicate crossed with etc...

 

I imagine if a new game was "officially" made, they would want to "reboot" the plot and re-start from the first invasion (in order to draw in gamers who never played the originals). But that just annoys the old timers - we end up more disappointed in what was changed, rather then interested in what was introduced... And so we go back to playing the originals... Again...

 

You don't mess with the canon!

 

X-Com 3 actually had a rather clever ending in that all the technology researched became useless at the end of the game. Near everything relied on the portals remaining open in order to function, but the entire point was to shut said portals down. Likewise, the first two games also relied on resources that became scarce once the aliens were beaten. It's something developers continuing the "plot" would need to keep in mind for their own game.

[The Veteran]

Not going into a big post here but regarding the weapons and technology failure BB just mentioned I've got to say it's difficult filling 65million years of Ethereal history when we already know their most developed weapon in 1999 is a plasma. I eman yeah it's pretty cool but I reckon given 65 million years I could probably make one... So we're facing new challenges from a prequel that I think it's safe to say none of the sequels ever had to deal with as well as some that I'm sure they did!

[Bomb Bloke]

It could be surmissed that the Ethereals put more effort into "self improvement" then weapons development - they supposedly control the entire Muton race via mind control, for example. With that sort of power, who needs guns?

 

There's also the matter of when they discovered Elerium.

 

I suppose time travel might be an easy out. Seed a world, jump ahead a few million years, head back and start reaping. Stasis works too, as does "super fast" travel (the faster you go, the less time you experience).

[NKF]

I'd like to see a time travel scenario, even if it is a horrid sci-fi plot device for any series to fall back on. (not counting shows that are centred around time travel, of course)

 

I once made a joke to Byron (of XCommand) about an X-COM set in the wild west. Weapons could include revolvers, cannons and good old hand cranked gatling guns. Throw in a bit of steam-punk styled technology and use the railroad or horsedrawn carriages for transport. Mail coachs being attacked, cows rustled, towns terrorized, steam engines exploding.

 

Yes, it started as a joke, but sometimes I do wonder if it would work.

 

- NKF

[The Veteran]

It's a nice thought NKF, I'm ll for a bit of steakpunk after all! Unfortunately I don't think Jim West would stand much of a chance against a chryssalid attack, even if he did take out a giant spider

 

As far as the ideas mentioned above though they do sound like an 'easy out' as mentioned! Travel over large distances in stasis has already been considered as a possibility as although our martians (and by extension our aliens) are already quite an advanced race they aren't too into space travel as they feel the only planet worth visiting is essentially out of bounds for scientific reasons so where would they go? Obviously they probably could land on Earth if they wanted to and they've almost certainly visited other stellar bodies such as Phobos and Deimos already but things such as time compression or 'hyperdrives' are unlikely to exist!

 

I like the sound of 'super-fast' travel or time-compression to speed things along as essentially these aliens won't return to 'seed' earth for 63 million years and we need to pass that time. If they're travelling only between colonised or colonisable planets then it'll probably be verging on a few million years between stops without advanced technology anyway. And of course the aliens who manage to escape Mars in the first place will be fairly few with poor resources and only basic technology so the first stop will involve a long period of construction and development.

 

It may actually be fun to put ourselves in these guys shoes for a sort of 'population' chapter in their existence where for once it is they who are the defenders trying to develop and expand!

 

As a last point I also agree with BB on the mind-control element of the ethereal race, why have big guns when using them is wasteful anyway? Now our ethereals already feature mind control in colonisation but once they begin cloning as a means of survival their traits will never evolve via natural evolution so this can be easily explained away. Elerium is another interesting thought as we know it is rife on Mars but do we make it common household fuel for our game or have it as an undiscovered or underdeveloped element until after the initial drama plays out?

 

I have some thoughts on the matter thanks to all these new issues being raised but I'm going to sit on this one as it comes hand in hand with a massive spoiler!