Rifle vs Pistol

[Ross]

I've heard all sorts of rumors and claims that the pistol is better than the rifle, and that it deals more damage on average than the rifle.

 

Assuming this information is correct, would it still be a wise idea to equip my fire teams with 12-shot pistols instead of 20-shot rifles?

[NKF]

Quick Summary:

 

Use pistols when:

- You want fast firing snapshots/reaction shots

- You want cheap ammo

- You want to use other weapons or items at the same time

 

Use rifles when:

- You want to do an extra 4 more points of damage than the pistol

- You want to fire your weapon in wild bursts

- You want an accurate aimed mode

 

 

Well, if you like to use snapshots from medium to long range as most of your attacks, then the pistol is for you. The ammo is very cheap and the gun itself is really fast.

 

The main difference in damage between the pistol and rifle is only 4 points per bullet, and while the rifle gets 4 snapshots a turn, the pistol gets 5. The drop in 4 points is barely even noticed, and having that extra attack makes up for it. See, rather than only having 4 chances at 60% each, you now have 5 chances at 60% each. This raises your odds nicely. Also note that as each shot costs only 18% of your TUs, you'll often have plenty of TUs to spend on something else - like walking.

 

Both weapons share the same accuracy for snapshot - which is 60%. The pistol just gets an extra shot. This also makes it an ideal weapon for reaction fire training.

 

The pistol also excels at being one handed, so you can carry another weapon in the other hand like a grenade or laser pistol and still be able to shoot just fine.

 

The rifle mainly excels with its burst fire mode (for short range combat) and its high accuracy aimed shot - which is mostly wasted due to the low damage, but otherwise handy to have nonetheless for long range killing blows. Having a higher clip capacity helps too, but only slightly. But assuming each hit for an auto shot connects, the 4 extra points per bullet, while very small, can provide a bit more oomph.

 

The rifles and pistols are mostly interchangeable, so just use either and you'll be fine.

 

I tend to prefer the pistols mainly because they mix well with other weapons (grenades and the laser pistol) and they offer me the extra mobility.

 

Then again, this is coming from someone who acknowledges the superiority of the heavy plasmas, but just doesn't like them. Make of that as you will.

 

- NKF

[FullAuto]

I prefer the rifle. The burst-fire option is very useful, and you can usually kill plenty of aliens with sheer weight of fire.

[Jh316]

If you have a laser pistol in the other hand, why use the pistol at all?

[NKF]

For accuracy over distances. The laser pistol's nice, but it is not very accurate at all, especially on new soldiers.

 

- NKF

[Torgulf]

I see it like this: The pistol is a sidearm and the rifle is a... well, rifle I use both. The rocket launcher guy gets a pistol in his belt and the other ones get extra rifle ammo. And then the pistol can be a million times better if it wants to, but it would still not feel logical to give pistols to soldiers when there are rifles available :lol:

 

And if I would be a soldier and get a little laser pistol in my hand while Joe over there runs around with a rocket launcher, my morale would totally drop ("I don't care about what those scientists say... if we're expected to need rocket launchers and only get PISTOLS, I'm resigning!"), so no. But then again, I've always been more of a roleplayer than a powergamer

[NickAragua]

Heh, yeah, if I was arming a bunch of elite special forces guys to do battle with aliens, I'd get a little suspicious if someone recommended I arm them with pistols.

 

In addition to what NKF already put down:

 

The difference in cost between rifle and pistol clips is negligible. Intuitively, a single alien corpse will pay for enough of both kinds of ammo to last you until you switch to laser weapons.

 

Also, personally, the small TU-cost of pulling items off the belt doesn't phase me. I mean, it's what, 8 or 10 TUs (obviously the fact that I don't remember this off hand means I need to play another X-Com session) - there's rarely a need for me to have soldiers walking around with grenades (primed, no less) in hand.

 

I know someone's already done the statistics on auto-shots vs snap-shots, so I won't go there , but I seem to remember auto-shot coming out ahead in terms of "probability of getting a single hit".

 

Of course, realistically speaking, you'd want to give every guy a sidearm, but in the context of X-Com, I feel better off just bringing an extra couple of clips. ::smirk::

[Zombie]

Well, I'm the fool that voted for the pistol. Someone had to do it.

 

Seriously, the pistol and rifle are neck and neck in more ways than one. The reason I like the pistol is because of the low TU snap shot. For mid-to-long-range shots I think the pistol is an excellent choice. It's always good for reaction training too.

 

What the normal rifle does better than any rifle in the game is this: a 110% accurate aimed shot. Sure, the damage is not much to sneeze at, but who cares as long as its hits?

 

One time where the rifle gains the edge over the pistol is in close range shots. See, if you shoot an alien with only snap shots from a pistol, the probability of inflicting a "kill shot" is extremely low. That's primarily because of the number of shots you can get off before you lose your reaction score to the alien.

 

Put it this way, because pistols have a 18% TU snap shot, that means you can get off 2 shots after using 36% of your TU. Now take the rifle. It has an auto shot. You can get off 3 shots while using 35% of your TU. The accuracy of the rifle's auto shot is 25% less, but that doesn't matter much for point-blank attacks. That extra shot the rifle has is sometimes all you need to kill a heavily armed alien teetering near a reaction shot of its own. At close range, that means instant death to your soldier.

 

I don't normally give all of my soldiers a pistol simply because there are so many other weapons available. I give each soldier a specific role, and don't give the guy everthing he needs for a certain contingency. I send my soldiers out in "packs". Those extra soldiers each have different weapons, and normally one has a pistol. On a normal mission with 4 packs of 3 soldiers, that comes to 4 pistols total. That works well enough for me.

[Jman4117]

Pistol!

 

Gotta love that quick snap and nade carrying ability.

Really a drawback in ufo storming though, so I get a few laser pistols asap.

[NKF]

I think I failed to mention the "Ha ha! I beat you and your top notch high tech weaponry with a pea shooter" David-and-Goliath-ey side to this as well.

 

- NKF

[Jman4117]

I think I failed to mention the "Ha ha! I beat you and your top notch high tech weaponry with a pea shooter" David-and-Goliath-ey side to this as well.

 

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LMAO! That too

[Ross]

I tried out pistols and rifles, and I found that pistols worked better for me and were a whole lot more fun.

 

However, for the sake of realism (imagine 10 armored, elite soldiers stepping off the most advanced transport aircraft in the world... with only a pistol each), I'll only equip Medics and Rocket teams with them (that's normally half of my standard squad).

[Bomb Bloke]

I always load up with rifles myself. This is not based on any real reason other then rifles are bigger.

 

Forexample, although they take two hands... I've never cared about such things. If the soldier can fire the thing, I don't care whether there's a rocket launcher in each hand.

 

Well... As of late I tend to be a bit more realistic with such things, but you get the idea.

 

But keep in mind with the blaster launcher, I see no reason at all not to put a reload in the spare hand. If you can miss with that thing... Well...

 

Anyway, onto useful stuff. USG has this. Make of it what you will.

 

  10.2 The Great Pistol vs Rifle debate

                          Pro              Con

          Rifles  more powerful    use more TUs

                  more accurate    two-handed weapon

          Pistols    uses less TUs    less powerful

                  one handed weapon less accurate

 

          As you can see, they are exact complements of each other.

          Very often, using a pistol is called for, since using a pistol

          would mean you still have enough TUs to duck into cover.

 

          Give pistols to heavy weapons people for when they ran out.

 

 

  10.3 The Great Pistol vs Rifle debate II (by Paul Close)

 

          Not being ad handy with theoretical statistics as I am with

          discrete simulation, I wrote a very simple program to simulate

          100,000 turns where each weapon was used in as many times as

          possible, up to 80% of the turn.  Since the time to use the

          weapons is also a percentage of the turn, simple subtraction

          sufficed.  :-)  In each case where an auto mode was available,

          it was used instead of snap shot. I felt that 70-80% was a

          good compromise between some movement, but still inflicting

          maximum damage.

 

                          TU average    +/- 1 std dev

                        A/S %  hits  dmg  hits  damage

 

          Pistol        0/4  72  2.4 62  1.4-3.4 36- 87

          Rifle      2/0  70  2.1 63  0.9-3.3 28- 98

          Heavy Cannon  0/2  66  1.2 67  0.5-1.9 28-105

          Auto Cannon 2/0  80  1.9 80  0.8-3.1 32-128

 

          Laser Pistol  3/0  75  2.5  115  1.2-3.9 53-177

          Laser Rifle 2/0  68  2.8  165  1.5-4.0 92-238

          Heavy Laser 0/2  66  1.0 84  0.3-1.7 24-145

 

          Plasma Pistol 2/0  60  3.0  155  1.8-4.2 92-219

          Plasma Rifle  2/0  66  3.3  263  2.1-4.5  166-361

          Heavy Plasma  2/0  70  3.0  344  1.8-4.2  203-485

 

          A/S : number of shots taken, Auto/Snap

          TU% : TU% used for the shots taken

          +/- 1 std dev : average +/- one standard deviation,

              roughly covers 66% of the possibilities

 

          Conventional Weapons :

 

          Pistol is a tie with rifle.  The pistol can be shot

          one-handed, but in the early stages of the game, you're not

          likely to have anything in the other hand :-) The rifle holds

          more ammo, but is slightly less accurate.  Each has a clip

          that will last three rounds at this firing rate.  Take your

          pick.

 

          Cannons :

 

          This seems like a no-contest, but the higher damage of the

          heavy cannon makes it not so simple.  The lower accuracy of

          the auto cannon in auto mode make it a more erratic weapon.

          Still, it's more satisfying to shoot off six shots instead of

          two  :-)  The clip holds 14, which will only last two rounds

          at this rate compared to three of the heavy cannon (which

          holds 6 shots)

 

          With only one shot, the three shots of the auto cannon imporve

          the odds of at least one hitting to 69% vs 60% for one snap

          shot of the heavy cannon.

 

          One final consideration is that the auto cannon takes 80% TU

          for its two auto shots, compared to 66% for the heavy cannon.

          With weaklings early in the game, you may need the extra

          time...

 

          Lasers:

 

          As you may expect, the heavy laser sucks due to the lack of an

          auto fire, and a rather slow snap shot.  The pistol and rifle

          get about the same number of hits, and the rifle does 30% more

          damage.  The rifle gets the nod in this case.  Even with a 20%

          penalty for one-handed use (not shown in table) rifle gets

          1.0-3.4 hits and 62-204 damage, still better than the pistol.

          So forget th elaser pistol and the heavy laser.

 

          Plasma:

 

          What can you say? The heavy plasma is king!  With pretty much

          the same accuracy and firing time as the rifle and pistol,

          over 40%/120% more damage (respectively), and bigger clip,

          there's no reason not to use the ehavy plasma.  The only down

          side is the ammo takes 3 elerium to manufacture, but with

          careful unloading of weapons, you'll get all you need during

          recoveries and assaults.

 

 

          (Editor's note: the advantage of heavy plasma is even greater

          when you realize that it weighs exact the same as a regular

          rifle.  Perhaps that why even those Sectoid weaklings can tote

          one around...)

[Ki-tat Chung]

i voted rifle....i think it really is just psycological, the fact that a pistol is....well....a pistol! but NKF proves that pistols are very formidable weapons in the right hands.

[NKF]

Actually, it's mainly because I'm mad.

 

Just remember to always acknowledge the faults of your weapons and try not to do more than they can possibly handle (like attacking a sectopod on any difficulty level with a rifle...)

 

It's an Art of War thing. Know yourself, know your enemy...

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

Mad? No, you just like to test the envelope of the pistol way beyond its standard operating environment. Nothing wrong with that. It's always nice to know the limitations of your weapons, cause its too late once you are out in the field.

 

You know, the Pistol, Rifle Auto-Cannon and Heavy Cannon all have roughly the same accuracy for their snap shots: 60%. The only thing that sets them apart is the % TU used, the weapon damage and the weight.

 

Since a loaded pistol weighs only 8 units, even the worst rookie having 20 for strength can carry an extra 12 points of weight around without being encumbered. Realistically speaking, the soldier should always carry an extra clip plus set aside 3 weight points so encumberance won't play a role. That leaves the pistol-toting rookie with 6 weight points left over. You can use them for hauling a spare clip for the Heavy Weapon folk, or carry a couple of grenades.

 

Once you are talking about strengths in the low 30's, the Heavy Cannon or Auto-Cannon should be used instead of the pistols, because they deal more damage. Heck, even the Rifle would be appropriate. Just depends on the player I guess.

[OmegaTwo]

Did anyone stated that carrying two pistols (one on each hand) gives you some good amount of extra ammo, since you can fire them with only one hand? That's why I prefer pistols! I use one for reaction fire and the other for snap shots.

[Bomb Bloke]

What is the actual penalty for for holding two items, and then firing a two-handed weapon?

[Jman4117]

like 15% I believe.

[Zombie]

Sorry, but firing a two-handed weapon with one hand decreases accuracy by 20%, not 15. However, there is no penalty for carrying two one-handed weapons like pistols (as OmegaTwo was doing).

[Makinus]

I myself prefer rifles, but i always equip my rocket soldiers and medics with pistols (the rocket in the belt and the medics in the other hand)...

 

About the Heavy and Auto Cannon i only equip them with soldiers that have good strenght and i don't need them as rocket soldiers ( i try to have at least 20% of my soldiers with rocket launchers).

 

In the end my pistols are only used by my medics and rocket soldiers after they expended all their ammo.

[Pete]

Topic Edit:

 

Poll removed as upgrade completely destroyed it.