Strange things in X-COM


  • Please log in to reply
392 replies to this topic

#21 NKF

NKF

    Mr. Badger in disguise

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,445 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my mind

Posted 14 October 2004 - 08:06 AM

My guess will have to be the Avenger. The Skyranger and Interceptor are leased ships, so they get sent back to owners after the base is wiped out. I always get 0 for these. Can't for the life of me explain why the Avenger just doesn't head to the next base.

The very action of losing the base is penalty enough. No sense in making it worse.

You do get penalised for every soldier that dies in a base defence mission, and you do get credited for every alien you kill. So if you know you cannot save the base (i.e. rifles -v- sectopods), well, surrendering cuts your losses a lot more than doing the macho thing and saying lines like "I will go down fighting for glory, honour, and that other stuff" "I shall never ever surrender" and "I've got an owie" and then letting yourself get mowed down.

It's not so bad for the cheap small feeler/interception bases with 1 hangar and 1 interceptor.

- NKF
NKF - finally built a gaming PC in 2020 (though not any of that RGB nonsense). Can now play games up to '89!

#22 Sean Do

Sean Do

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 16 October 2004 - 08:43 PM

Hello to the members of this Forum,

  Wow, I was beginning to think that I was alone in this universe in my fascination with everything X-COM (UFO in particular) until I stumbled across this Forum by accident. The greatest time/resource management and strategy game in my opinion. I've been exploring the forum and I have to say that I like what I see and have learnt a few things about my favourite PS1 game that I didn't know about.

Anyway, I've decided to add to the collective with a post of my own;

The strangest thing that I have ever encountered in X-COM UFO was once when I was in a downed large scoutship mission against Floaters.

For some reason the Floaters in that mission were 'invisible'. When it was the aliens turn the screen would show the aliens movements but I couldn't actually see the aliens.

It was only when I used AC Incendiary ammo and set the floaters on fire could I see the flames moving on the invisible aliens when it was there turn. Funny thing was that the game treated the whole thing as normal and my men could still see the aliens to shoot them.

I do have quite a few scratches on my disc which I put this discrepancy down to.

#23 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 17 October 2004 - 03:16 AM

The scratches may be it. The game failed to load the graphical data for the aliens, for whatever reason. Things get a lot more weird when it fails to load parts of the scenary.  :P

Zombie, hate to send you on such little errands, but do you gain score for *patroling* your craft in areas? What about if they spot a base, or another craft (which is outside the range of your base radar systems)?

Perhaps the 'lost craft' score stands for the base. Does it still say you lose one craft if you have two X-Com built craft in stock? What if you have no craft at all?

I had the exact same message last night. The base in concern had one craft in it, and it was an Avenger. I was doing some testing of my own... Didn't wanna be bothered killing all the aliens, so I just aborted the mission and lost a base.
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#24 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,582 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 17 October 2004 - 04:11 AM

Welcome to the forums, Sean Do! Wow, Floaters that only became visible after being hit with Incendiary ammo. I play the PS1 version of X-COM quite regularily and have never witnessed your problem. This is probably due to the fact that I keep my game disc in pristine condition. A replacement X-COM game for the PlayStation is pretty expensive these days! :P

----------

Quote

Bomb Bloke  
Posted: Oct 16 2004, 10:16 PM
Zombie, hate to send you on such little errands, but do you gain score for *patroling* your craft in areas? What about if they spot a base, or another craft (which is outside the range of your base radar systems)?

No problem at all B.Bloke! Like I said in an earlier post, X-COM does not get activity points for patroling an area. Even if you somehow manage to spot a UFO with a craft's onboard radar system, you will not see a rise in X-COM activity for that area. I did not test this with spotting an alien base, but I suspect that it would be the same as the previous scenarios.

The only time you will see an increase in X-COM activity for an area is when you actually do something. By "something" I mean grounding/destroying a UFO, or visiting a UFO crash/landing site, or assaulting a Terror Site or alien base. That's it. You have to take an active part to gain points.  And points are added for every action you do, whether successful or not.

Say you shoot down a Medium Scout in Russia. This nets you +75 points. Now say you send your transport to the crash site. You finish the mission and have a score report of +161. Your total in Russia for these two actions is 75+161, or +236 points. Now say you go to the mission but get spanked by the aliens for a loss of 10 rookies (-200 points), 1 HWP (-20), and the loss of the Skyranger (-200 points). Your total for this mission would be -420 points. Add this to the +75 for shooting down the Medium Scout and your activity will come to -345!

As for the 'lost craft' score, I'm not too sure whether that score is for a lost craft or a lost base. An educated guess would be a lost craft. I will test your various craft/no craft at a base scenario tomorrow after I reload my game from the Geoscape, and switch things around a bit!  :(

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#25 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,582 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 19 October 2004 - 07:25 AM

After some serious testing this afternoon, I came up with answers to Bomb Blokes and my questions.

First, by spotting an alien base with an X-COM crafts radar, your activity score will not go up. This is exactly what I expected. You actually have to do something in an area before X-COM will show activity. Just flying around or spotting UFO's or alien bases nets you nothing. You have to directly attack these sites to show a difference.

Ok, now for my question of what the "X-COM Craft Lost" score refers to. The three craft stationed at my base are the Skyranger, the Interceptor and the Avenger. Is the 0 score because a certain craft was lost when you abort, or is it the loss of the base itself? I figured the easiest way to do this was to change the configuration of the number, and type, of craft at my base right before the aliens attacked. Here are the results:

1) Skyranger, Interceptor and Avenger - Outcome: 1 X-COM Craft Lost
2) Skyranger and Interceptor - Outcome: 1 X-COM Craft Lost
3) Skyranger and Avenger - Outcome: 1 X-COM Craft Lost
4) Interceptor and Avenger - Outcome: 1 X-COM Craft Lost
5) Skyranger - Outcome: 1 X-COM Craft Lost
6) Interceptor - Outcome: 1 X-COM Craft Lost
7) Avenger - Outcome: 1 X-COM Craft Lost
8) No craft at base - Outcome: 1 X-COM Craft Lost

It turns out that the message of  1 X-COM Craft Lost does not refer to the craft at all. What this actually means is that 1 X-COM BASE was lost! It's nice that you get only a minor "penalty" for aborting a base defense mission: A slap on the wrist and a score of 0! Another problem solved!  :P

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#26 FullAuto

FullAuto

    Catching the next pimpmobile outta here!

  • Chief Editor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 19 October 2004 - 11:39 AM

I think I may have found a way to open doors without walking through them.  I'll keep testing it out until I'm sure.

Erfworld - the finest comic about turn-based gaming ever.


#27 Sean Do

Sean Do

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 19 October 2004 - 04:23 PM

I'm gonna wait here on the edge of my seat Fullauto until you get back on the opening door without going through it thing. It bugs me so much that you can't just simply open the door!!!!!!

#28 FullAuto

FullAuto

    Catching the next pimpmobile outta here!

  • Chief Editor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 19 October 2004 - 06:52 PM

Ok, first off, I'm happy to announce, you CAN open doors without walking through them.   :P
  Secondly, I'm sad to announce that SO FAR, I have only been able to get it to work on the PSX version.   :(
  I'm still struggling, though, so it's not the death-knell yet.
  Here's what you do:  Get your soldier and position him next to the door, facing it (duh).  Then put your cursor on the other side of the door.  Bring up your shoot/throw/use menu thing, choose something so that the cursor is now the target instead of the box, ok?  Then tap R1 a few times quickly.  The cursor should revert to being the usual rectangular box and the door should open.

I'm working on my speech for X-Com's "Man of the Year" award, don't worry.

Erfworld - the finest comic about turn-based gaming ever.


#29 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 19 October 2004 - 10:33 PM

*tries it on PC*

Er... I don't have a R1 button.

Actually, I didn't test, but I presume the right mouse button (cancel aim mode) would be the closest alternative. Guessing that's what R1 does.

Ha! I said the craft lost was probably a base, didn't I?  :P
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#30 FullAuto

FullAuto

    Catching the next pimpmobile outta here!

  • Chief Editor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 19 October 2004 - 11:25 PM

Like I said, only works on PSX so far.  But it's probably in the PC version too.  Somewhere.  I mean, a button on the PSX version must have an equivalent key on the PC.
I think.

Erfworld - the finest comic about turn-based gaming ever.


#31 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,582 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 20 October 2004 - 01:59 AM

Opening a door without stepping over the threshold in the PlayStation is hardly a new phenomenon or development. I have been touting it's use since 1997 when I found out this trick, and publicly on this website since May of this year. The only thing I never did was explain how to do it (pretty simple actually). Here are my posts listing this capability:

Quote

Zombie Posted: May 30 2004, 01:30 AM   
If doors were opened during the aliens round, the soldier right at the door opens it without stepping inside. (Do you see why I like playing UFO on PSX? This tactic is impossible in the PC version!) If he sees an alien, he shoots at it - usually killing it. If he was unable to log the kill, one of his buddies will pick up the slack and mop up!

Quote

Zombie Posted: Jun 18 2004, 02:13 AM   
Let me add a little here:

In the PC version of this game you cannot just open a door. You have to completely step through, which sucks! You should be able to right-click just beyond the door to open it - like the PSX version allows.

Quote

Zombie Posted: Jun 23 2004, 02:52 AM   
The "Just Open Door" is for PSX users only.

Ok, to just open a door in the PlayStation version, put the controller in Mode 2 (or the Point and Click Interface). Now, align the box so that it is right in back of the door you are trying to open. Simply press the circle button and VOILA!, the door opens up without the soldier stepping through. So far, I have been unable to find a similar way to open doors in the computer version of the game. The right-click button was my first choice, but unfortunately, it does not work!  :P

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#32 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 20 October 2004 - 03:52 AM

It does work under TFTD, but I'm sure you all knew that.  :P
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#33 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,582 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 28 October 2004 - 07:03 AM

Here is a strange tidbit in the wonderful world of X-COM: What is the only alien ship that cannot be destroyed by Blaster Bombs? Give up? It is the lowly Small Scout!

I was mucking around with Blaster Launchers this past week, and wondered what would happen if Blaster Bombs were used on a Small Scout. Being too lazy to purchase and equip one of my Avengers with a single Cannon to shoot one down, I decided to wait until one landed. Whew! It took a looong time but eventually a Floater piloting the smallest UFO in the game landed at night to secretly scope out a spot for a future harvesting mission.

When I got into the mission, every one of my soldiers was equipped with a Blaster Launcher and 4 Blaster Bombs plus a Laser Pistol, just in case. Luckily, the Small Scout landed about 10 tiles away from my Skyranger. Now I just blasted away at the Small Scout. I targeted various parts of the ship but was unable to even damage it. After 10 bombs were used up, I took revenge on the Floater who was starting to get shell-shock from all the explosions!  :P

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#34 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 28 October 2004 - 07:19 AM

They never did get around to adding the sprites for the destroyed small scout. In fact, it get's it's very own tileset file, while all the other UFO's have to share.

The catch would be if you could destroy it. If you took out the legs (the most likely parts to take fire, as they are at ground level), then you're left with the top hovering in the air.

I've got a save game of a very damaged medium scout, just out of interest. It has one wall, and one cieling tile. The two are quite a distance apart. The ceiling hovers on it's own above the ground. The rest of the craft is either molten metal or burnt dirt; you can see where the seats were, but there's no sign of the power supply.
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#35 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,582 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 28 October 2004 - 07:29 AM

Speaking of damaged Medium Scouts, I recently shot one down with dual Plasma Cannons. When I visited the crash site, the only thing that was left was one wall tile and one ceiling tile. To top it all off, only one Muton was alive after the crash! Kinda easy to mop up a crash site when 8 of the 9 aliens are already pre-killed!  :P

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#36 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 28 October 2004 - 10:21 PM

Five aliens in a medium scout...

No floor tiles, destroyed seats, or even some molten metal? That's pretty axed.

Spekaing of which, I had a map start where an alien had a fatal wound. I hit end turn, and the thing died. Doesn't happen every day.
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#37 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,582 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 29 October 2004 - 05:23 AM

Yep, only one alien alive (and fatally wounded) at a crash site is a very rare occurrence indeed. This never happened for me in UFO yet, though it did show up in TFTD for me one time. If I may quote myself from a TFTD post:

Quote

Zombie Posted: Sep 16 2004, 04:49 PM  
Recently I shot down a small sub. The crash was so horrendous that nothing was left of the USO! No walls, no hulls, nothing! There were some dead alien bodies laying inside, and one live alien alive outside! That's gotta suck for that alien. He probably thought "Hurray! I survived the crash" Unfortunately for him, he had 2 fatal wounds, and no weapons because he dropped them from the morale loss of his friends. So I just sat there watching that poor thing until he died! Always fun to have a mission where you don't do anything and still win!

----------

Getting back to the discussion a bit. I became curious on which structures at an X-COM base can be annihilated by excessive shelling with Blaster Bombs in a base defense mission. After some exhaustive research last week (and many, many Blaster Bombs later) I found some answers.

Modules that can be destroyed in an X-COM base defense mission:
- Fusion Ball Defenses
- Grav Shield
- Hyper-wave Decoder
- Laboratory
- Large Radar System
- Laser Defenses
- Mind Shield
- Missile Defenses
- Plasma Defenses
- Psionic Laboratory
- Small Radar System

Modules that cannot be destroyed in an X-COM base defense mission:
- Access Lift
- General Stores
- Hangar
- Living Quarters

At the moment, I am unsure whether an Alien Containment module can be destroyed. My guess would be yes, but I have been wrong before. I'll try to figure this out sometime soon!

And yes, as NKF pointed out, indestructable modules can be destroyed by means of the domino effect. Imagine a line of modules in your base, the first structure is a Psionic Laboratory and the rest General Stores. If you obliterate the Psionic Laboratory, all those General Stores will go down with it.

To be on the safe side when building a new base, always use the Strategic Base Design technique described by the OSG and USG. In short, isolate the Hangars from the rest of the base by connecting them to the access lift. If I may, I will refine this technique a little with my new information:
Isolate the Hangars and Access Lift from the other part of the base as normal, but CLUSTER the General Stores and Living Quarters around the Access Lift. The most intense fighting occurrs near the lift so it makes sense to place indestructable modules here in case the aliens decide to use Blaster Bombs against your troops. As an added bonus, your troops and HWP's will mostly spawn near or in the General Stores and Living Quarters so they are starting closer to the action!  :P

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#38 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 29 October 2004 - 05:34 AM

It would seem that facs which store things can't be destroyed. I guess that's because it'd cause problems if you had no where to store your troops (at least in terms of logic).
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#39 NKF

NKF

    Mr. Badger in disguise

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,445 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my mind

Posted 29 October 2004 - 12:56 PM

I've always been of the opinion that the small radar module cannot be destroyed. But I suppose I've just not been persistent enough with it. Heh.

I'd also recommend having two entrances into the isolated hangar area. It does mean two choke-points, but it also means you can also perform a pincer attack, which can be brutal depending on the sort of firepower you choose to use.

It's still better than the three way entry points that the default base layout gives you.

- NKF
NKF - finally built a gaming PC in 2020 (though not any of that RGB nonsense). Can now play games up to '89!

#40 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,582 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 30 October 2004 - 04:28 AM

Here is something that might be interesting. I was just playing some UFO landing and crash site missions today and decided to fool around with Power Sources and the Elerium they contain.

First part: Let a UFO land anywhere, then visit the site. Kill all the aliens but one. Shoot out the Power Source(s) with a Heavy Plasma and recover the Elerium. Now get back to your transport ship and abort. When you get back to the Geoscape screen, the UFO is magically airborne, without a Power Source or Elerium! (Nothing really new to me, but some of you may not have known this).

Second part: Send one of your intercepting craft to shoot down the UFO that somehow managed to take off. Save the game. Now visit the crash site. Because damage to UFO's is figured pseudo-randomly by the game, the UFO might survive the crash with it's engines intact. If it did not survive the impact, reload the game until it does. Do the same thing as above: shoot out the Power Source(s) with a Heavy Plasma. Presto! More Elerium-115!!! (Well, you don't have to shoot out the Power Source if you don't want to - you will recover the Elerium anyway. I did it just to see if more Elerium was spawned in the engines, or if the engines were unpowered).

It ends here though. If you abort from this mission with your Elerium in-hand, the UFO is not airborne when you return to the Geoscape. In fact, the UFO disappears completely off the map. This is because you shot the craft down. Abort any crash site and the UFO will disappear, this is how the game deals with it. So make it a point to finish those crash site missions. If you abort them, you will not get a second chance!

Still strange that you can get double the stuff if you let the UFO land first, then shoot it down and do another mission to recover more. This doesn't surprise me too much since alien base missions are very similar in nature. Do a smash 'n grab - go to the base and haul everything back to the green rooms, then leave the base. When you get back to the Geoscape screen, the base is still there, even if you managed to recover everything except one alien!  :P

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users