CE vs. DOS


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:41 PM

Literally as the titles says, I want to learn some differences between the two. I know that the difficulty bug is fixed and that is uses ddraw and dsound in place of vga and the Miles drivers, but I particularly want to know if the game saves between the two are compatible and how manny slots does it have?
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#2 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,545 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:43 AM

Yes a save in CE and DOS are interchangeable and identical. ;)

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#3 NKF

NKF

    Mr. Badger in disguise

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,426 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my mind

Posted 22 February 2018 - 08:14 AM

Most of the data files are exactly the same. The main changes were the combination of the executables into a single windows executable, and replacing the music files with MIDI files. If you were to copy the missing files from one game and stick them into the other, you would be able to launch either version and work with the same set of files. This is what Steam did for their release of the game.

A few other things I can think of that are unique to CE are:
  • The blaster launcher is bugged and is not able to set vertical waypoints. Any attempt to angle the waypoints directly up or down will result in sending the blaster bomb to the south. To work around this you have to use slight angles.
  • Pistols will sometimes only be armed by one person in the squad. That soldier will also fill all inventory slots with pistol clips.
  • Introduction of a screenshot key
  • The numpad Enter key does not work in text boxes such as when entering Savegames or editing soldiers.
  • Game music volume is altered through Windows volume control. The dos version uses the numpad +/- keys

- NKF
NKF, narrow minded fuddy duddy who refuses to let go of the past and will not accept anything newer than 1979.

#4 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 February 2018 - 05:32 PM

Speaking of same data files, Zombie, your polar foot steps fix for CE also appears to work on DOS. I suppose the reason the sound file patches don't is because they were modified to be compatible with dsound vs old Miles.

I was under the impression that CE also had only 8 save slots vs DOS' 10, but I might be wrong about that.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#5 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,545 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 23 February 2018 - 04:14 AM

View Post3371-Alpha, on 22 February 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Speaking of same data files, Zombie, your polar foot steps fix for CE also appears to work on DOS. I suppose the reason the sound file patches don't is because they were modified to be compatible with dsound vs old Miles.

Hmm, I could've sworn that DOS has different offsets for footstep sound effects (hence the reason why I described it as CE-only). Of course, back then maybe we didn't quite have everything figured out yet so maybe "use at your own risk" would be a better descriptor. ;)

View Post3371-Alpha, on 22 February 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

I was under the impression that CE also had only 8 save slots vs DOS' 10, but I might be wrong about that.

CE&DOS both have 10 slots. The Playstation version of course is different (a save takes differing blocks of memory depending on a Geoscape or Battlescape save). Posted Image

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#6 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:50 AM

Yep it works. Perhaps terrain files are version independent, some are included in your combo patch after all. Sound files from CE however don't work on 1.4 DOS. Technically the sounds do play but the pitch is wrong and some of them are scratchy. I found this out thanks to experiments I conducted just for the hell of it Posted Image
Seams more study is needed to tell all the major differences between versions.

Speaking of which does XcomUtil's hotseat multiplayer hack work on CE?
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#7 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 July 2018 - 08:01 PM

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I decided to do my own investigation on some more open questions I had. First I wanted to know if it was possible to use the 2.1 patch on the CE version (CE is based on 2.0). I don't own the CE version but from previous observations the data files are compatible with dos versions. This meant that if the difference between 2.0 and 2.1 was in the data file it could be theoretically compatible. And if it was in the exes what are the differences between it and the beta patch? Long story short the changes were in the exes (the geoscape to be exact) so unfortunately for CE users 2.1 is useless to them. I've also found that, according to my hex editor, the geoscapes from the beta patch and 2.1 are the same; perhaps Microprose first released the beta patch with the stand alone geoscape and later combined it with the standard 2.0 for convenience to 1.0 upgraders in what we now call 2.1.

I'm also curious if anyone has information about the openxcom data patches, what's the difference between them and the ordinary combo patch? Also what's the difference between mods' data files for openxcom and standard x-com (besides things like rulesets and alternate imager formats: stuff the obviously wont ever be compatible)? If the difference isn't that great then they can theoretically be used with the original.

EDIT: the readme for the data/universal patch says it contains files from the official EU patches, the Zombie's combo patch and "additional fixes from the openxcom community". I decided to mush together all the official patch files with the combo patch and found all files check out except 2; the openxcom version contains a plane.mcd (used for the skyranger)file in its terrain folder while the mush of officials and combo contained a geodata.dat (used for saves) in its maps folder. Of course the mush one also contained at least 20x more route fixes however as mentioned by Zombie in his combo mod thread, openxcom likely intentionally works around route bugs in the original file thus causing it to break when they are fixed; makes me think of games that used to take advantage of bugs in the MT-32's ROMs, when Roland patched them in later models those games broke. I wonder exactly what these "additional fixes from the openxcom community" are.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#8 NKF

NKF

    Mr. Badger in disguise

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,426 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my mind

Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:40 AM

I've always been a bit vague about the source of 2.1and was always under the impression that it was a fan released patch. Someone with a better memory may know better.

The main change should be a tweak to the portions of the executable that checks the requirements for the MC Reader. If you could find the same section in the CE executables then you theoretically might be able duplicate this with your hex editor. The data files with it should be straight up 2.0 files.

As for the OpenXcom fixes, it might be better to inquire on the official forum.

- NKF
NKF, narrow minded fuddy duddy who refuses to let go of the past and will not accept anything newer than 1979.

#9 Hobbes

Hobbes

    Peace through superior hairdos!

  • Fan Fiction
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Area 51

Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:43 PM

View Post3371-Alpha, on 04 July 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

I wonder exactly what these "additional fixes from the openxcom community" are.

IIRC the additional fixes are related to TFTD since its implementation revealed several bugs with the original game files that were never patched before.

Like NKF said, if you want more details just ask Warboy or SupSuper on the OXC forums since they were the ones responsible for that patch ;)
Terrain Pack - 44 new terrains for the original game, using OpenXcom

My X-COM Fan Fictions: The Unknown Menace, Abyssal, Eulogy

#10 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:53 PM

View PostNKF, on 05 July 2018 - 05:40 AM, said:

I've always been a bit vague about the source of 2.1and was always under the impression that it was a fan released patch. Someone with a better memory may know better.

The main change should be a tweak to the portions of the executable that checks the requirements for the MC Reader. If you could find the same section in the CE executables then you theoretically might be able duplicate this with your hex editor. The data files with it should be straight up 2.0 files.
If the beta and 2.1's geoscape are the same then it's likely it both fixes the mc reader and adds better terrain selection as many have stated the beta does.
If 2.1 is fan made then they likely just repacked the beta geoscape with 2.0 as I mentioned before.

View PostHobbes, on 06 July 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

IIRC the additional fixes are related to TFTD since its implementation revealed several bugs with the original game files that were never patched before.

Like NKF said, if you want more details just ask Warboy or SupSuper on the OXC forums since they were the ones responsible for that patch Posted Image
The user Sherlock has made many fixes to the combo patch, perhaps his are included too? They can be found here and here.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#11 SupSuper

SupSuper

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 14 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 02:44 AM

View Post3371-Alpha, on 04 July 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

I'm also curious if anyone has information about the openxcom data patches, what's the difference between them and the ordinary combo patch?
Historically, we started by just linking people to the Combo Patch. But then the community found bugs not covered by it, so it was easier for us to maintain our own patch than rely on third-parties. Every bug in X-COM is a potential bug in OpenXcom, so we gotta fix it one way or another. Posted Image It'd be great if everything could be unified but the community is too spread around and a lot of people have different ideals (i.e. X-COM purity vs OpenXcom).

There's no detailed changelog, sorry, as they're a mix of fixes the community sends us or we fix ourselves. It's likely they overlap with other patches out there online, as we can't go around tracking them all down.

Best I can tell you is the OpenXcom data patches are focused on fixing bugs that affect OpenXcom and can't be easily worked around. This is mainly MAP and MCD problems, like incorrect LOFTEMPS, invalid tiles, etc. We usually don't bother with spawn point and route fixes as those are worked around by the engine. Fixing them wouldn't break OpenXcom, it's just not worth the trouble.

So, the "OpenXcom UFO Patch" = v1.4 patch (because a lot of people use the 1.0 versions out there on the pirate web) + Combo Patch (the starting point) + extra map fixes from the community. And the "OpenXcom TFTD Patch" is just community map fixes, as there were no official or combo patches to base on.

You should be able to apply the patches to the original games, as AFAIK we don't make any changes to the file formats, but they won't include stuff not relevant to OpenXcom like GEODATA.DAT fixes etc.

View Post3371-Alpha, on 04 July 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

Also what's the difference between mods' data files for openxcom and standard x-com (besides things like rulesets and alternate imager formats: stuff the obviously wont ever be compatible)? If the difference isn't that great then they can theoretically be used with the original.
Most OpenXcom mods probably won't work in the original without significant rework. Even if the file formats are the same (MAP, MCD, etc), they can be much bigger than the original game would support (map block sizes, amount of tilesets, etc).

Hobbes can give you more specifics, as I believe he expanded a lot of original X-COM & UFO2000 mods for OpenXcom.

#12 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2018 - 03:30 AM

View PostSupSuper, on 07 July 2018 - 02:44 AM, said:

There's no detailed changelog, sorry, as they're a mix of fixes the community sends us or we fix ourselves. It's likely they overlap with other patches out there online, as we can't go around tracking them all down.
That's what I was afraid to hear. I assume the map fixes are fairly compatible with vanilla, but the MCD. How did you fix the Alien Reproduction and Habitat? I ask because there's a MCD patch here for the original game, but the corresponding files in the universal patch are strait from the combo patch.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#13 Hobbes

Hobbes

    Peace through superior hairdos!

  • Fan Fiction
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Area 51

Posted 07 July 2018 - 03:43 AM

View PostSupSuper, on 07 July 2018 - 02:44 AM, said:

Most OpenXcom mods probably won't work in the original without significant rework. Even if the file formats are the same (MAP, MCD, etc), they can be much bigger than the original game would support (map block sizes, amount of tilesets, etc).

Hobbes can give you more specifics, as I believe he expanded a lot of original X-COM & UFO2000 mods for OpenXcom.

Any mod for the original game needs to replace the original game files and their structure to work, regardless of being terrains, weapons or alien races. Converting OXC mods to work on the original could be possible, by adapting them to fit with the file structure and/or by hex editing the hardcoded values.
Terrain Pack - 44 new terrains for the original game, using OpenXcom

My X-COM Fan Fictions: The Unknown Menace, Abyssal, Eulogy

#14 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2018 - 05:07 AM

View PostHobbes, on 07 July 2018 - 03:43 AM, said:

Any mod for the original game needs to replace the original game files and their structure to work, regardless of being terrains, weapons or alien races. Converting OXC mods to work on the original could be possible, by adapting them to fit with the file structure and/or by hex editing the hardcoded values.
Isn't that how BB's uniform mod does things, replace the uniform files depending on the terrain used? I know because I used Bagirov's Camo without his tool before; you can find an explanation of the details on the download page for the camo.
Although I lack the tools and experience for such an under taking, I've thought about writing a tool for xcomutil that would randomly select between several terrain presets and still be able to load the correct one upon loading a battlescape save. This is actually what I was going for in the old Adding maps instead of replacing them thread. I think weapon and alien mods would only be good as replacements due to limits in how many the engine allows though.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#15 Hobbes

Hobbes

    Peace through superior hairdos!

  • Fan Fiction
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Area 51

Posted 07 July 2018 - 11:53 AM

View Post3371-Alpha, on 07 July 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

Isn't that how BB's uniform mod does things, replace the uniform files depending on the terrain used? I know because I used Bagirov's Camo without his tool before; you can find an explanation of the details on the download page for the camo.
Although I lack the tools and experience for such an under taking, I've thought about writing a tool for xcomutil that would randomly select between several terrain presets and still be able to load the correct one upon loading a battlescape save. This is actually what I was going for in the old Adding maps instead of replacing them thread. I think weapon and alien mods would only be good as replacements due to limits in how many the engine allows though.

I never used BB's uniform mod, so I can't answer your question. As for XComUtil a long time ago I used it to add additional mapblocks/terrains but it was very limited and you needed to select manually which terrain you wanted to play.

The original game is simply not easy to mod and quite limited when compared what UFO2000 and OXC allow.
Terrain Pack - 44 new terrains for the original game, using OpenXcom

My X-COM Fan Fictions: The Unknown Menace, Abyssal, Eulogy

#16 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2018 - 06:34 PM

I see. I must know though, is the universal patch compatible with vanilla or does openxcom process things differently enough that it breaks more than it fixes? It's never too late to make a true universal patch that supports both vanilla and oxc.
EDIT: I realize now that you already answered that question; it works but doesn't contain fixes not relevant to oxc. It's based on the latest 01/31/2013 version of the combo patch right, wasn't forked in the middle of creation was it?
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#17 SupSuper

SupSuper

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 14 posts

Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:38 AM

View Post3371-Alpha, on 07 July 2018 - 03:30 AM, said:

That's what I was afraid to hear. I assume the map fixes are fairly compatible with vanilla, but the MCD. How did you fix the Alien Reproduction and Habitat? I ask because there's a MCD patch here for the original game, but the corresponding files in the universal patch are strait from the combo patch.
We didn't fix it AFAIK since the patch is focused on bugs, not unused features. There's a separate MCD mod if players want to bring them back (probably same as the one you linked).

View Post3371-Alpha, on 07 July 2018 - 06:34 PM, said:

EDIT: I realize now that you already answered that question; it works but doesn't contain fixes not relevant to oxc. It's based on the latest 01/31/2013 version of the combo patch right, wasn't forked in the middle of creation was it?
Yes, as far as I know we grabbed it in 2014 and there haven't been any changes to the Combo Patch since.

#18 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 July 2018 - 02:49 AM

View PostSupSuper, on 09 July 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

We didn't fix it AFAIK since the patch is focused on bugs, not unused features. There's a separate MCD mod if players want to bring them back (probably same as the one you linked).
According to the creator of the mod, the features weren't intentionally unused but accidentally given wrong values in the MCD files. Considering their counterparts in TFTD are obtainable and sellable he might be right. It's worth noting his mod does include some optional map "patches" that do enable the brain vats at alien bases (I think it's based on the one made by Zombie).
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3

#19 magic9mushroom

magic9mushroom

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 263 posts

Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:11 AM

View Post3371-Alpha, on 09 July 2018 - 02:49 AM, said:

According to the creator of the mod, the features weren't intentionally unused but accidentally given wrong values in the MCD files. Considering their counterparts in TFTD are obtainable and sellable he might be right. It's worth noting his mod does include some optional map "patches" that do enable the brain vats at alien bases (I think it's based on the one made by Zombie).

Alien Reproduction might be a bug, as might Examination Room in TFTD. Alien Habitat is simply not implemented; while the item exists (unobtainably), there's no research or UFOpaedia data for it (no entry in RESEARCH.DAT or UP.DAT, and no text in ENGLISH.DAT to serve as a UFOpaedia entry).

#20 3371-Alpha

3371-Alpha

    Classic Mac User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 July 2018 - 06:57 PM

I forgot about the Examination Room in TFTD. I found a patch here from the same guy, unfortunately the link expired and he doesn't have it on his file archive.I can understand if you don't want to integrate these "unused" features; it's a bit controversial.

Regardless what do you think of the idea of making a patch to succeed the combo patch that supports both vanilla exes and oxc? I think the only thing that would really need to be added are Sherlock's route fixes I linked before; the single UFO_150 map file it includes is the same as the UFO_150 his research mod includes and only removes a single pillar from a UFO, so it can be left out.

He also has patches that could integrated into the TFTD data patch, however some files overlap; ENTRY03, GRUNGE08, and GRUNGE09 map files as well as TRITON.RMP. I cannot say which version of these files are better or if they should be merged so you may want to examine them yourself.

EDIT: found another patch for TFTD data files here. According to the thread it's based on the oxc data fixes minus the triton map and route "as it replaces the triton landing size from 10x20 to 20x20" and the xbase route files for unknown reasons. Additional overlaps with Sherlock's fixes are as follows; A_BASE00, A_BASE01, ALART07, ALART10, ENTRY04, ENTRY05, ENTRY07 and ENTRY08 map files. A_BASE00, A_BASE01, ALART03, CARGO00, ENTRY03, ENTRY04, ENTRY05, ENTRY07, ENTRY08, GRUNGE07, GRUNGE08 and GRUNGE09 for route file overlaps. TFTD would benefit the most out of a unified data patch I think.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon X800 XT (GPU overclocked to 500MHz, VRAM to 550MHz)
Boxer emulator 1.3.3




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users