Sitrep + questions


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#1 Veki

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:44 PM

Thanks to SV and Kekkonen AARs, I decided to try this game.
Playing Disk 351 star galaxy, 8 players, hard AI, 50% income and research.
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Managed to grab a nice piece of galaxy. I have 2 neighbours. I'm at war with one (green) and I can become an ally with other (purple).
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I have researched these technologies.
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Purple player tech.
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Enemy player tech.
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Questions :
1. I'm getting hammered by stormers and heavy stormers. How to counter them? I'm using shields and better armor, but that doesn't help much.
2. My ships are rather slow in combat. I assume that is because I have fission engines and enemy has fusion engines?
3. Don't quite understand Manage fleet window. Can I have 2 CnC ships in a squad to incease number of ships I can add to that squad? And what are squad for?
4. Are point defense weapons (gauss and red laser) useful? And for that matter PD mission sections? I have a feeling they are borderline useless. ;)

#2 Space Voyager

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 02:36 PM

You're pretty bold to go for a map of max size, a game can drag FAR over the all-techs-researched mark and that is just not as fun (for me). Naturally, all the expansions do move that mark further, though still not that far.


1) Stormers and heavy stormers have a short range and are not very accurate, so you can go for long range weaponry or destroyer swarms (small targets). Best answer is definitely armour tech, which will render them almost useless as you go for magnoceramics or above. IF available, naturally. Better armour has higher deflection rate and with a high end armour you can see practically all mass drivers except armour-piercing being deflected.

Also, you can counter all kinetic weaponry with deflectors that only cover the front half or the ship. That is a bit more micro intensive as you need to keep your formation as firm as possible to have the wall turned against the enemy and you will be trying to hide your back.


2) That is only a part of the answer. When you are designing your ships, check for ship max speed displayed above the ship itself. It varies heavily from section to section - and I'm not speaking about engine sections only. All sections affect speed. One of the fastest combinations is armour mission section and hammerhead command section. This is a relatively sturdy, fast and cheap ship that is also able to maintain the range.

The heavier and more specialized they get, the slower they are, with exceptions.


3) The number of CnC ships will not affect the total number of ships being fielded. A DE CnC will have 20 points, CR CnC will have 36 points and... I'm not sure how many an armada (DN) CnC has, like 60 or something.

You can also research special techs that increase the CnC points and let you field more ships. You have some researched if I recall the symbols correctly.

Than there is the outnumbering bonus. You get extra CnC points if your number of ships is higher than the enemies. I don't know the exact formula, but it is calculated for DEs, CRs and DNs independently than summed. So if you have more DEs and the enemy has more CRs you may both field the same number of ships.

I usually use 2-3 squads. CnC ship is most commonly on its own, than you have the attack ships in the second group. When you use special ships (assault shuttles etc) or ships with a different use (long range ships) they go to squad 3... I don't think I ever used 4 though.


4) PD is EXTREMELY useful. It is a quick tracking weapon that shoots down incoming missiles, boarding pods, some torpedoes, drones etc. Not having PD makes your life hell especially when you are on the offensive and being pounded by planetary missiles.

There are weapons that can serve as makeshift PD, most notably light emitters with 100% accuracy. Still, PD removes the need to manually target missiles, which is a huge load off the micro.

PD sections are not very common though I do use them after researching PD, mostly to complement the PD-less ships and shield them from missiles. After most ships have PD they rarely come into action. Perhaps as a Wild Weasel-PD combination.

Hope this helps! If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

#3 Veki

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:09 PM

Thanks for your help.

1. I have shields Mk2, polysilicate alloys and improved reflective coating, but still my ships look like they are made of paper. Just noticed that enemy has AP rounds + heavy stormers. ;)

2. My ships have speeds between 60 and 40. Is that good or bad? (My guts tell me it's bad)

3. I have 40 CnC points - that's 5 CR + CnC CR. But what are squads used for?

4. All my designs have PD red lasers on all small mounts, so I should be ok.

Here is a savegame after one big fight if you want to take a look. ;)
http://www.mediafire...ha6qdb58g692q7i

#4 Space Voyager

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:19 PM

From a brief glance of that... not so successful battle; you mostly have missile armed ships and the enemy has PD.

First of all, with missile ships you need speed. Armour and hammerhead sections would be a possible combo, but when the enemy becomes PD heavy you'd need something else. When you go for speed you don't want to need shield at all. You want to go away and shoot from distance. But it may not be good to go for missiles any more.

You have deflectors and you have HCLs, so perhaps a deflector command section and blazer mission section, no reflective coating. Ships slow as hell, but you'd use them as next-to-static anyway. Use two or three to target one enemy ship, CnC FIRST!

Also I'd go for AP rounds. If you read the latest Antiquarians scenario, you see I'm not kidding. ;) It is a very good all-around weapon, useful into antimatter age.

The speed 40 is bad, 60 not that bad. The combo I proposed will go down to 25 with fission... So it really is static...

Oh, and squads. If you assign squads 1-4 and hit no. 1, all the ships in your 1. squad are selected etc. Just like in TW games. Group ships with the same mission (not necessarily mission section, just mission) and grouping will help you use them.

#5 Veki

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 10:46 AM

Again , thank you for your help. ;)

How can I know which one is CnC? And what do I get if I destroy it?

I'll go for AP rounds as soon as I research Fusion.

Could you recommend me some good configuration for Swarm Infestation and Alien Derelict encounters?

#6 Space Voyager

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 11:14 AM

View PostVeki, on 16th February 2011, 11:46am, said:

Again , thank you for your help. ;)

How can I know which one is CnC? And what do I get if I destroy it?

I'll go for AP rounds as soon as I research Fusion.

Could you recommend me some good configuration for Swarm Infestation and Alien Derelict encounters?

CnC ships all have some sort of communication equipment on their mission section. Your CnC ship has a radar dish (like AWACS plane), Tarka CnC has antennae, a rotating radar on top and also something I don't quite know what it s on its belly... If you pause the game and take a look at their ships, you'll recognize the CnC ship for sure.

If you destroy it the enemy won't be able to call in reinforcements. If you destroy them ALL, naturally. But even if you just destroy the one that is currently fielded, the reinforcements (new CnC ship and so forth) won't appear directly in the same spot where the battle is taking place (unless you are fighting in their spawning place). Meaning that until the enemy is able to regroup you will be fighting less and less ships.

Swarm is not a problem when you have PD. If you have PD on your standard cruisers you don't need to build any specially designed additions to the fleet. Perhaps you can add a PD laden (PD section) destroyer or two just for kicks. Use your normal weaponry against the queen, let PD take care of the drones. BTW, gauss PD works better against drones and torpedoes. Laser PD is better against missiles.
If you didn't have PD than lasers are always an answer to the Swarm but you can't really destroy them all with no losses.

Alien derelict is never a problem, just keep your ships on the side it can't fire to, so your ships will be circling it on its back side.
If you want to get a larger research bonus for it, use lasers, beamers or even heavy beams to destroy the weapon turrets from it instead of destroying it. The battle will be over when the last of its turrets are destroyed.

#7 Veki

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 11:36 AM

Thanks SV. ;)

Going to try some of your advices in SOTS. Maybe I'll have some more questions later.

EDIT :

I managed to salvage 2 technologies from my enemy (he lost 2 colonies ;) ). I know I'll get one tech I don't have. But will I get one I can't research or one I can, but haven't researched it yet?

#8 Space Voyager

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 09:28 AM

View PostVeki, on 16th February 2011, 12:36pm, said:

I managed to salvage 2 technologies from my enemy (he lost 2 colonies ;) ). I know I'll get one tech I don't have. But will I get one I can't research or one I can, but haven't researched it yet?
You only get salvage possibility for techs that not only you can't research at the moment but not at all in this game (the tech is not in your current tech tree), but you do have the prerequisites for already researched. As an example; you can salvage point defence
if
you don't have it in your tech tree
and
you have already researched VRF technology.

When you are in the lead you'll rarely get something extremely useful though. Do check how much of your inncome is eaten away by a single additional research before adding several.

A researched salvaged project will only open a possibility to research the tech itself, meaning it will add it into your tech tree. It will not become instantly available for use.

#9 Veki

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:47 PM

Thanks for clearing that up.

And now for something completely different.

I just don't get it. I have 5 blazers with 4 HCL firing on 1 enemy ship and they all hit it, but fail to destroy it. ;) They didn't even destroy the section and they were all hitting the same section!!! ;)  ;)  ;)

#10 Space Voyager

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:58 PM

That is never a good sign. Unless the targeted ship is yours... ;)

The enemy either has a high end armour tech or it is a Hiver ship (meaning a flying fortress in every case) OR it a dreadnought.

Whichever it is, it is not good.  ;)

#11 Veki

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:31 PM

It's Tarka cruiser with reflective coating.

I think I just suck big time in manual combat. :laugh:

And my ships just blow up as soon as enemy fires at them, regardless they are hit or not. :oh:

#12 Space Voyager

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:54 AM

I'm afraid you might me a bit behind in research and your ships and weapons could be outdated...

I managed to get two nice shots of CnC ship for you though:

Liir CR
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Tarka CR
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#13 Veki

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 11:32 AM

Thanks SV. I recognized Tarka CnC cruiser.

New sitrep :

Managed to get DN class AND my enemy still hasn't got them. :oh: Now researching DN CnC that I really need. Also got a couple of nice techs as well (mines, fusion warhead, better sensors).
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Enemy switched from Stormers to Fusion cannons due to me mass building Blazers + deflector (big thanks for this life saver :laugh: ).
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Frontline is a bit streched, but I'm holding the line for now. Hope I'll be able to get DN CnC soon. Since my fleets are based on blazers I'm having a hard time destroying CR defense platforms and I noticed one science station. :P
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#14 Space Voyager

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:36 PM

View PostVeki, on 19th February 2011, 12:32pm, said:

Now researching DN CnC that I really need. Also got a couple of nice techs as well (mines, fusion warhead, better sensors).
If you manage to get to Armada CnC first that is a big edge over the enemy. It is devastating to recognize it from the other side... If you plan to continue with missiles you could research some additional techs to make them better, like microfusion drives. And later the multi warhead missiles. Even phaser PD has problems with those.

View PostVeki, on 19th February 2011, 12:32pm, said:

Frontline is a bit streched, but I'm holding the line for now. Hope I'll be able to get DN CnC soon.
That is not a stretched frontline. Perhaps you colonized to close to it, but this frontline is not stretched, trust me.

View PostVeki, on 19th February 2011, 12:32pm, said:

Since my fleets are based on blazers I'm having a hard time destroying CR defense platforms and I noticed one science station.
What problems? Catching the station or what? I do remember my ships had troubles catching them when on pursuit mode. Manually steering the ships and targeting the station made a BIG difference.

If the enemy has shifted to fusion cannons you might think about an adaptation, too. Deflector section is pretty fragile so perhaps only have two in front to soak the possible first mass driver attack, than have rest in the rear without the deflector, pure warships to destroy what gets behind those first ships. Or something...

#15 Veki

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:57 PM

8 turns to DN CnC.

Maybe stretched is not an accurate term. Due to interesting node line layout I have 3 fronts I have to cover. Lower left is an enemy planet with Asterioid monitor + 20-30 CR which is not possible for me to destroy it ATM. In the middle I have a planet that acts as a staging area and first point of defense. On the right is another planet that is only connected to enemy planet. I hope that I'll destroy it soon enough.

Problem is (don't laugh please :laugh: ) I don't play battles manually. I leave every battle for computer to calculate. Reason is when I fight manually I loose 12 ships and destroy 2. When computer does it, it loses 2 ships and destroys 12. :oh:

Other problem is I have very few ships. 5 DN and 30-40 CR (blazers) divided in 3 fleets. Not enough to advance. I can raid a planet when I see there are 2-3 CR, but the next turn I have to pull back as 20+ CR arrive and I don't have a chance against that. For now.

Question about trade :
I can see I have full trade rutes on most of my planets, but why do I always get messages that I need more ships to maximize trade revenue?

#16 Space Voyager

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 03:15 PM

View PostVeki, on 19th February 2011, 2:57pm, said:

I can see I have full trade rutes on most of my planets, but why do I always get messages that I need more ships to maximize trade revenue?
Each trade route can accommodate (read: profit from) 5 freighters. Having trade routes maximized is good both for economy and in morale, though obviously you could profit a lot more from your trade network as you don't have 5 freighters per route.

#17 Space Voyager

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:08 AM

A Hiver CNC.
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I seriously hope that I won't have an opportunity to post a Morrigi CnC ship in the near future.

#18 Veki

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:55 PM

Well, I managed to catch an enemy fleet of 4 ships after they cleared someones planet. Imagine my surprise when I saw 4 DN. Luckly, 2 of them were damaged already. I had 2 Blazer (deflector) DN + 2 Blazed CR. I put CR very close DN so DN deflector would cover them as well. Lots of damage, but 0 lost ships. :oh:
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I'm researching AI, which should be fun. :laugh:

A few questions :
1. Are minelayers any good? I have fusion mines. I noticed there is no difference between nuclear nad fusion mines. Is that a bug?
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2. I'm getting invitations for NAP and alliance from 2 players every other turn which I decline. But when I propose ceasefire to them, they decline. I find this strange.

#19 Space Voyager

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:28 AM

View PostVeki, on 21st February 2011, 5:55pm, said:

I'm researching AI, which should be fun. :oh:
Don't try to speed the research by throwing extra money in it, the risk is high enough as it is.

View PostVeki, on 21st February 2011, 5:55pm, said:

Are minelayers any good? I have fusion mines. I noticed there is no difference between nuclear nad fusion mines. Is that a bug?
Not a bug as such, it works in game. Probably just poor presentation in the tech tree or the difference isn't big enough for the devs to show it.

Mines are a cheat IMO. The AI has no real answer to them. Just fly away from the enemy fleet and it will destroy itself...  :laugh: Well, mostly.

View PostVeki, on 21st February 2011, 5:55pm, said:

I'm getting invitations for NAP and alliance from 2 players every other turn which I decline. But when I propose ceasefire to them, they decline. I find this strange.
Ceasefire may not be enough for them as it doesn't give them any insurance for their colonies. So NAP/alliance or nothing...

Oh, when I helped Morrigi in their defence I managed to take a pic of their CnC CR, no war necessary. :P
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#20 Veki

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 12:51 PM

Space Voyager said:

Oh, when I helped Morrigi in their defence I managed to take a pic of their CnC CR, no war necessary. :laugh:
Nice. ;)

New sitrep :

Things have changed a bit :
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As you can see I have Cutting beam and Quantum capacitors. :oh:
I'm still using deflectors as my enemy is using impactors quite often.
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My enemy has imp. reflective coating, but that doesn't help him much. Luckily he hasn't got Disruptor Shield. :P
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As you can see, I managed to push him back quite a bit and got a couple of his colonies as they went independent. Just recently I paid a visit to his homeworld. :) You can see my fleet returning from it in the upper right corner.

Questions :
1. Cloaking. Is it any good? I can research adv. cloaking so my ships can fire while cloaked.
2. I'm quite agitated by Tarka ships strategic range and speed. How cone they can travel so far and so fast?




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