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#1 Gimli

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 08:39 PM

In this topic you can discuss the wonderful game of football.

Today's hot topic: Eduardo's dive

Seriously, it's a dive. I find it hilarious that Wenger is defending him. Is it OK for UEFA to be singling Eduardo out? No. But at the end of the day, he dived and should be punished. And so should every other diver. If you mess up, you have to be ready for the consequences.
What did surprise me is that he dived in the first place. I would expect it from anybody else, but him... having followed him from way back when he used to play in our league, he always seemed like the guy who would never do it. Oh well.

Upcoming: Arsenal v ManU
Should be interesting. ;)

#2 Zombie

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 12:03 AM

This depends on the coach and the team, but most soccer players are taught how to dive and are expected to do it when they get in the penalty box. Fact of life. This along with faking an injury (playacting) are the two things which I despise about this sport. These two issues should be dealt with by the referee and linesmen but they don't always catch it. If it were up to me, a player pulling either of these stunts would be immediately ejected from the game - no yellow card, no red card, if you do it, you're gone. Aw heck, this article says it better. ;)

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#3 FullAuto

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 02:43 PM

It's become acceptable practice everywhere at professional level.  That's a bit sad.  When I played at school we were taught that diving or faking injury was unsportsmanlike and generally scummy behaviour perpetrated by our traditional enemies on the continent (pretty much everyone), but now it offers such potential rewards, and fairly light punishments, that sometimes you can't afford not to do it.  It's also diminished the 'contact' part of the sport.

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#4 Zombie

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 02:59 AM

View PostFullAuto, on 29th August 2009, 9:43am, said:

It's become acceptable practice everywhere at professional level.  That's a bit sad.  When I played at school we were taught that diving or faking injury was unsportsmanlike and generally scummy behaviour perpetrated by our traditional enemies on the continent (pretty much everyone), but now it offers such potential rewards, and fairly light punishments, that sometimes you can't afford not to do it.  It's also diminished the 'contact' part of the sport.
Way back when, playacting or diving were never even mentioned by my coaches or even the players. Our teachings consisted of ball control, shooting, offensive and defensive strategies, set plays and communication. So this is a more recent occurrence, and that is the sad part. Bring back soccer to the way it was. No reason to call every little infraction - just let everyone play. ;)

Seems to me this behavior became more prevalent in Europe, so that may be why we never even focused on it here. :)

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#5 FullAuto

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 11:30 AM

TV replays are great at catching this sort of thing, and are already used in rugby and American football.  Should be implemented, and immediate multiple-game suspensions should be used as a punishment.

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#6 Matri

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 12:12 AM

Turn it into a season-wide suspension, and they'll either clean up their act or (sadly) get sneakier.
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#7 Zombie

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 02:13 AM

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I was thinking that if the team also got punished when a player took a dive then that would help to clean things up. I mean, it's just as much the coach's fault for expecting this behavior from his players. Not sure what kind of punishment to dish out to the coach which would be meaningful, but if you would target all the players on the team by giving them a big cut in pay, that might overrule the decision of the coach/organization. Then again, maybe not. ;)

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#8 FullAuto

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 12:03 PM

I wouldn't use financial punishments, because the richer clubs will merely absorb them as part of their normal operating costs.  Ideally it would be seen as a disciplinary issue just like red and yellow cards, resulting in progressively harsher suspensions.  This is quite good as the club has to keep paying the player, but he can't play.  When they have a goalscoring wonder boy on 60k a week or whatever, and he's out for six games, they'll soon stop.

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#9 Matri

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:43 PM

Something like a permanent record?
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#10 FullAuto

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:50 PM

If it potentially carried over from season to season, that's a harsh punishment that the richer clubs can't just throw money at.  Any player getting it would probably be made ineligible for awards like the Golden Boot, and would be less likely (perhaps) to get offers from sportswear companies to endorse their gear.

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#11 Gimli

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 04:24 PM

Well Croatia beat Belarus yesterday... barely. It was looking OK, but there was no finish. And then near the end Corluka got a second yellow and it became a nerve wreck. Thank God Runje (goalie) saved a few sure to be goals.
We're in the second spot, but we have no place for mistakes, because Ukraine currently has the same number of points.

Next up: Croatia vs England, Ukraine vs Belarus

#12 Zombie

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 09:13 PM

Do you think you stand a chance against England? ;)

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#13 FullAuto

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 09:32 PM

They flippin' did last year.  ;)

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#14 Gimli

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 09:53 PM

@Zombie: It's hard to say. I'm not sure what the status of England is right now, but even last time it was pretty close, and I have a feeling it will be much harder for us now, because we're under a lot of pressure while England is already through. If I had to make a guess I'd give England a 1 or 2 goal advantage, but it could easily be more. On the other hand, we tend to play best against the hardest opponents, especially if we're the underestimated. I don't think that's going to happen here this time.

Honestly, all I really want is for us to pass and meet Turkey in WC somewhere.  ;)  Not even the match against Germany in 1996 hurt us so much (we lost 2:1 with some suspicious refereeing, as I recall), and we all know what happened to Germany in France 1998. :)

#15 Gimli

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 06:57 PM

Ukraine drew Belarus! Woosh, that makes me feel a bit less uneasy. Well, off to the match, popcorn is ready. May the best team win. ;)

#16 FullAuto

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 07:18 PM

2-0, I can relax.   ;)

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#17 Gimli

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 08:41 PM

M-m-m-monster kill. ;) Thank God Ukraine drew with Belarus. I decided to save myself from watching the last 10 minutes.
Horrible defending from Croatia, and absolutely fantastic England. Well deserved victory, we were totally outclassed.

In other news, Bosnia & Herzegovina drew with Turkey (1:1), and it looks like they'll take the 2nd spot in their group.

#18 Space Voyager

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 07:49 AM

Slovenia:Poland   3:0

#19 Azrael Strife

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:28 AM

Uruguay 3 - Colombia 1, next match against Ecuador, but I'm rooting for Brasil this World Cup!

On better news: Paraguay 1 - Argentine 0 ;)
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#20 Gimli

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 05:36 PM

Oh man, it will be soooo funny if England loses this match. :oh: I can already imagine our media screaming about a conspiracy, bribery and so on.




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