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Mozhaisk - CMBB AAR

AAR CMBB Combat Mission

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#1 FullAuto

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 02:26 AM

In September 1941, the Germans launched Operation Typhoon, with the ultimate objective of capturing Moscow.  The Das Reich division, on the highway to the Russian capital, needs to capture a strategically important objective, a crossroads, where the village of Mozhaisk has grown.  The Russians are taking not one step back, defending stoically and ignoring losses.  The Germans are determined to continue.

The unstoppable force meets the immovable object.

OBJECTIVE
The objective is to capture the crossroads and the town of Mozhaisk.  If all goes well, securing the road beyond the village is a secondary objective.

Overhead.
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Approximately 700 metres from the start line to the objectives.
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The lay of the land is interesting.  The ground slopes up, mostly, towards the objective.  The rail line running parallel to the road down the centre of the map is on a bare ridge, suicide to use that.  To the left of that, it's rather bare, some patches of trees, some shell craters.  In the centre, it's not bad at all, plenty of trees and brush.  On the right, the ridges could be used as cover IF the troops can cross the ridges before getting shot up.

Reverse view.
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FORCES

I have an infantry battalion to play with, 3 companies each consisting of 3 platoons.  Each platoon has four units, three sections and a HQ.  The sections are the sexy kind with two MGs, plenty of firepower.

For extra firepower, each platoon has a 50mm mortar team.  I've taken these teams and grouped them into two lots, instead of having them try and fail to keep up with the infantry.  They'll be providing bomb-droppy services from cover.

6 MG 34 heavy machine guns.

7 Sturmgeschutz assault guns, my only armour.  Respectable workhorses, but not tank killers.

1 105mm artillery spotter, with a rather meagre 60 rounds to call down.

PLAN OF ATTACK

Main thrust will be central, 5 platoons, backed up with 3 Stugs and 2 MGs.

On the right, two platoons will attempt to cross ridges as fast as possible and get into the gullies.  Repeat 'til objective is reached.  In support, a group of 50mm mortars, and 2 Stugs.  Behind the start position on the right, atop a wooded hill, 2 MGs and the arty spotter wait, commanded by the battalion HQ.

On the left, prospects are slim.  I'm not really expecting to get anywhere here, the ground is rather bare.  2 platoons, 2 Stugs, 2 MGs, and a mortar group.  Hopefully they can grind forward into positions where they can give fire support to the main attack at least.

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#2 silencer_pl

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:50 AM

View PostFullAuto, on 13th February 2012, 1:26am, said:

The Russians are taking not one step back, defending stoically and ignoring losses

That is lightly said.


Go FA.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#3 FullAuto

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:59 PM

On the left, Ross' B company eyes the bare terrain ahead and wonders just how many Russian guns are pointed at them.  Enough MG fire could stall them on the start line, and crossing the rail line ridge to join the central attack could be deadly.

In the centre, Imhof's A company plots out its fire and movement, spying useful clumps of trees and planning who will have the honour of going first.

On the right, Becker's C company readies itself.  Its task is to cross the first ridge as fast as possible, get into the gully and shelter there, behind the second ridge.  It will then have to cross that ridge and begin the slog up to the woods and fields of Mozhaisk.

I have enough firepower to handle anything except proper tanks.  My Stugs can only take on real tanks with extreme difficulty.  So no KVs, T-34s, etc.

Time to kick off.
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Ah.  Those tanky-looking things, holding that objective, they would be...?
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T-34s.  Of course.  :clapping:

Turn 1.

Treeless view.
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Left flank: Ross orders his men forward, and both platoons Move to Contact, edging forward, using rocky ground, trees, shell craters and brush.  One MG is on overwatch, the other climbs up onto one of the Stugs, ready to move forward.  The mortar section stands ready to play one-way explosive egg toss.
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Centre: Imhof gives the signal and two platoons MtC as the rest wait there turn.  2 MGs on overwatch.  The Stugs throw it in reverse, getting out of sight of the T-34s behind a ridge.
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Right: Becker stalls his men, and the Stugs' engines idle as they loiter behind the ridge.  Only the mortar section sneaks forward, using a patch of trees for cover.
Posted Image

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#4 Thorondor

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:39 PM

Quote

T-34s. Of course. :D
What else? Nespresso? :clapping:

Nicely grouped. Spotter target-finding range precludes arty usage I take it?

::

Shaking things up would be fun, but not with tank shells. :P

#5 Sunflash

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:00 PM

Sounds like you need a noisy distraction off to open field on the right. Get the attention of those tanks pulled off.

Now taking volunteers...

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:27 PM

Well, my 50mm mortars can't reach the tanks (500m range) and even if they could, the best they could hope for is to kill a tank commander or two.  My arty spotter, on the hill behind C company, can see the tanks but 105mm HE isn't the best weapon versus tanks.  I'll get a tank commander or two, maybe a mobility kill, and perhaps take one out with gun damage or something, but even if they don't move out of the targeted area, they are armoured point targets and using arty on them is basically a lottery.

Your posts have given me an idea, however:
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Turn 4

The advance continues, with the Stugs on the left spurting 100m forward to another hull-down position, accompanying the infantry push.

In the centre, the infantry continue on, with one section making a run across a stretch of clear ground.  Only when they disappear into the trees do the platoons covering them relax a fraction.

The spotter makes sure the battery has the right co-ordinates, and informs the battalion HQ that firing will start in exactly one minute.

Reinforcements turn up:
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A platoon of 4 Panzerjager tank hunters, a company of infantry, and a 81mm mortar spotter (150 rounds).  The Panzerjagers aren't particularly fearsome.  Their 47mm gun is okay, but they are only thinly armoured.  Shoot and scoot tactics are a must, especially versus real tanks.  Although their AP rounds perform decently, their tungsten rounds are much better; of course, because they're rare, my PJs don't have any tungsten rounds.   :clapping:

I love it when a plan vaguely coheres.
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Blue for lines of infantry advance, green for armour, white for the smokescreen I'm laying down.  My infantry carry on, while the PJs and Stugs on the left race forward.  If they get into the village without being murdered by unseen tanks or anti-tank guns, they stand a (marginally) better chance against the T-34s.

Turn 5 is uneventful, with the only change being the first small arms fire of the battle.  One of the infantry sections sprinting across open ground in the centre is shot at (infantry, not an MG, by the sound) and hurls themselves into the trees as bullets churn the earth around them.  Fire came from the section's 1 o'clock, the trees near the wheat field.  Might be worth hitting that area with some fire.
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You can see the first shell I've called down just beginning to smoke in the wheat field, too.  Somewhat to the left of where I'd aimed the focus of the barrage.

Turn 6

On the left, the infantry push on without incident, and the PJs roar at top speed across the barren steppe.
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With open compartments and only 13mm of frontal armour, they're very vulnerable.  An anti-tank rifle team could mess them up, never mind a tank or AT gun.

Fire from one MG and one mortar is targeted on the area the enemy infantry fired from.
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Hopefully this will pin them, shutting them up, or incite them to shoot back, betraying their position.

In the centre, a leading infantry section spots a tempting prospect.
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That crater next to the railway line could be a good position to get a good view of the area.  However, it's also a prominent place, bare of other forms of cover, and could draw a Hell of a lot of fire.  Going somewhere high and skylining yourself is a great way to get shot.

On the right, the smokescreen takes shape.
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I'll see about moving those Stugs on the right now.

Turn 7

Moving those Stugs turns out to be a bad idea, with them receiving fire through gaps in the smokescreen as soon as they peeped up.  Cowardice turned out to be the best part of not getting blown up, with them reversing back down into cover.  One thing I didn't notice due to brash overconfidence is that the weather is a clear spell, after some heavy rain, so the ground is muddy, slowing off-road movement considerably.  The PJs are okay, their much lower PSi (6.7 vs 12.9 for the Stugs) means they can still churn across the stuff quite happily, but the Stugs are slowed drastically.

On the left, the infantry edge closer to the objective, slipping through the trees, wondering how close they're going to get before the defenders open fire.  Movement is purposeful and definite, but cautious, with plenty of units moving simultaneously, but even more covering.
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Two platoons are entering the stretch of woods leading up to the village, with the two Stugs rolling behind.  The PJs are MtC into supporting hull-down positions.  Their 47mm guns can't deliver much HE, but an explosion is an explosion is an explosion.  The mortar section toddles along at the rear, searching for a new position.  Several hundred metres behind them, the company of reinforcements hurries to catch up...

In the centre, the infantry section steels itself and runs up the slope, terrified and relieved when they swap uphill struggle for the horror of flat open ground, and hurl themselves into the crater by the railway line.
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A burst of fire zips out of the village, but the men are safe, breathing hard and grinning, and with line of sight for hundreds of metres around.  I've enlarged their arc of fire to 500m to take advantage.

Turn 8

On the left flank, the leading infantry section steps out from some woods and immediately comes under fire.
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The point man goes down screaming, and the section dives for cover.  Return fire from several infantry sections and a PJ silences the enemy unit.

In the centre, a platoon takes a risk, and hurries out into the open, eager to back up the leading platoon, and also comes under fire.  But the range is longer, no-one is hit, and the platoon hurries on as multiple MGs reply to the enemy.
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Looks like they picked the right time to leave, that's either a mortar bomb or artillery shell bursting to the 3 o'clock of the MG.

On the right, the Stugs can't take advantage of the smoke, but Becker's company use it to cross the ridge, enemy MG fire cracking over their heads, and surge down the other side and into the gully, and safety.
Posted Image
Nearly time to earn our deutschmarks.

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#7 FullAuto

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:24 PM

Turn 9

Time fur zum aktion!  On the left, the section retrieves their casualty and crawls back into the treeline.  The enemy unit is targeted by a whole platoon and a PJ as another section makes a run to flank the enemy position.
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Another turn, and barring problems, it'll be time to assault that unit.

Trees off for this one, to let you see the blasts spattering the landscape.  It's either 75mm arty or 81mm mortars, judging by the size of the blasts, so not massive but more than enough to mess up infantry in the open.
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A few trailing sections are scared into taking cover, but no-one is hurt.  An accident, but a well-timed one, my moving out just as the fire was called down!  Hopefully those in wooded areas on the periphery of the barrage will get clear, airbursts can be devastating.

The leading section in the centre, running for a crater they've spotted, comes into view of the enemy, and takes a little fire.
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They don't hesitate at the lip of the hole and tumble in, safe for the moment.

On the right, the engines roar and the T-34s start rolling.
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Looks like a group angling off to the right, and a loner coming down the road.  I don't have a solution for those in the open, barring another go at a smokescreen, but if that single-o comes down the road, my sections hiding amongst the trees have plenty of AT weapons to use at close range.

Turn 10

On the left, the enemy unit is pinned down by bullets and 47mm HE, and seems isolated, without any mutually supporting positions.  An infantry section gets closer, spots the unit, and begins shooting and throwing grenades (can you spot it?).
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Assault next turn!

Two PJs roll on into new hull-down positions as two stay static, and the reinforcements begin to close the gap.
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A Stug bogs down for a few seconds, then frees itself with a glutinous slurp, and the MG team jumps off and hurries into the woods, setting out the tripod and ammo, getting the MG mounted and ready for firing next turn.

Turn 11

Well, this has really pissed me off.  I've been irritated by certain things, this battle (T-3LOL4s), but this has just ticked my boxes.  Section assaults across a muddy slope, fair enough, progress is slow.  But the enemy unit is being fired upon by a platoon and a MG, so they'll have their faces in the mud, right?
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Wrong.  They get a burst of fire off and a man dies, tumbling down the slope and into the pond.  So obviously more suppressing fire is needed.  Fine by me!

In the centre, a shell lands, and not only takes out an ammo bearer on the MG team, but sets the brush alight.
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Couldn't care less.  The team are shaken, briefly take cover, and then go back to firing.  Thank our conquest of Europe for veteran troops eh?  Taking one casualty from an artillery strike is good news.  As the team are set up, I didn't even lose any ammo (if a MG team takes a casualty on the move, that man is lost and so is the ammo he was carrying).

On the right, a rather more solid smokescreen takes form.
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But too late, the T-34s have already moved and are already peering around the edges of it, wondering what surprises I'm trying to hide.

Turn 12

Reinforcements!
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A platoon of 4 Panzer IVDs (75mm L/24 guns, not much use versus tanks but good HE chuckers), and two platoons of 4 Panzer IIIGs (50mm L/42, which is still marginal versus the T-34 at their current range, approx 1km).  That's a bit more like it, but neither model has the armour to survive the T-34's 76.2mm L/42 firepower).  Shoot and scoot might pay off.

One PzIII platoon rolls along the road, the other two tank platoons slog across the mud.
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Hopefully I can use the railway ridge (to the platoon's right here) as the perfect place to get hull-down, peek over, and kill some T-34s.

The assault becomes a marathon, as despite added firepower (another MG, and 75mm HE from two Stugs), the enemy manage to pop up and inflict another casualty on Beerbauer's section.
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Another man tumbles down the slope, rifle sliding with him, but before more can die, the enemy unit is wiped out with close-range fire and grenades.  Shitty assault COMPLETE!

Pokorny's section, heading onwards to the village, come under enemy fire.  But they've fallen for stepping out of the trees and getting shot before, and they stop just shy, wait, and duly receive enemy fire.
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No casualties, and fire is swiftly returned after the men scramble for cover.

The smoke screen is respectably solid now it is useless.  The arty spotter, down to his last dozen rounds, glumly lets the shoot continue.  Might as well inconvenience the enemy a little more.
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Hopefully it will last long enough to isolate a few T-34s to be picked off by the massed fire of my PzIIIs.  The tank breaking off to the left was having a whale of a time, smugly grinding across the field until my squad in the crater on railway ridge opened up on him.  The tank commander did his reverse-jack-in-the-box trick and the chaps had a chuckle.

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#8 FullAuto

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:35 AM

Turn 13 (unlucky for some, like, er, me)

On the left, the reinforcements continue to hurry on, the PJs leapfrog forward, Pokorny's section grit their teeth under fire and wait for a platoon to catch up with them, a Stug shells a big building in the village because I feel like it, and oh yes, one of my PJs spots a T-34.
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Yes, well, we all saw that result coming.  After two misses, when the T-34 was oblivious.  This is a veteran crew, by the way.  I can only assume an inexperienced crew would simply blow themselves up to save everybody time.  I see an exploding PJ in my future.

In the centre, I do something I knew was a little bit silly, and told an infantry platoon to run forward to new positions.  The unlucky section whose job it was to cross the road took a casualty almost immediately before making it to the safe haven of a shell crater.
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Time for more 50mm mortar and MG fire!

Overhead view for progress evalutation:
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Not bad, but I'm going to have to take care of those T-34s...

Turn 14

In what may be the most pathetic tank battle of the 20th century, the T-34 misses every shot, and two PJs miss or fail to penetrate, until they get lucky.
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The T-34 reverses out of sight.  The PJs live another turn.  I mean who thinks 13mm of armour plate is enough?  I thought Nazi scientists were supposed to be clever?  Can you imagine the instruction manual for a Panzerjager?  "When you climb into the vehicle, try not to climb in too hard."

Trees off so you can see what's going on.  Pokorny's section gives covering fire as another section runs up, drops into a crater for cover, and joins the firefight.
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Another section behind that one, moving up for the assault.

A building blows up because I think that's hilarious.
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Hopefully there were some enemies in there, or something.  Whatever.

On the right, the 50mm mortar section quickly gets the range of the newly-revealed enemy positions guarding the road, and bombs start bracketing Russian units.
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The mortars are small, and the Russians are in prepared positions, so I'm unlikely to cause many casualties, but combined with the MG fire, and the infantry platoons chipping in, I am likely to keep their heads down, freeing my infantry up to assault.

Turn 15

Trees off this turn so you can see what's happening.

On the left, the PJs are busy.  One is supporting the infantry attack, splashing the enemy infantry with HE, two are static and watching for that T-34 to nose forward again, and another grinds through the trees and on into the field beyond, hoping to get closer to that T-34 and give it a nice surprise.  The wheat graphic makes it difficult to make out dips and rises, but the field is basically a gently-sloped hill.
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The reinforcements are still playing catch up.

Dregger's section, who lost a man to crossing the road, are spotted by multiple tanks as the smoke screen dies, and despite their position in a hole, take two more casualties as HE shells blast the lip of the crater.
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In the woods to Dregger's left, infantry sections begin the assault, MtC through the trees until they spot the enemy, and start shooting, pouring rounds into foxholes.

Another infantry section takes a spot in a shell crater next to the railway, and comes to the attention of the enemy, drawing fire from several infantry units, and a tank.
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The HE drops short, thankfully.  Another nice spotting position gained.

Turn 16

Reinforcements!
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Three infantry platoons mounted in halftracks, a platoon of Pz IIIGs, and a platoon of Pz IIIHs.  The latter has improved armour, so actually stands a chance.  Time to nail those T-34s.

On the left, an advancing Stug rolls into the sights of a T-34.
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One round, one hit, one kill, and the crew bail out in seconds as the MG team spill off the back.

The assault goes terribly wrong, as multiple enemy units pop up and open fire.
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Three casualties in short order.  Shit.

In the centre, the infantry bring their weight to bear on the enemy positions, and it becomes too much.  MG fire, mortars, grenades, and the sections closing in.
Posted Image
Enemies are killed in their positions, or flee and are killed.

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#9 Knan

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

Hmm. 75mm L/24s all around. Pretty outgunned, aren't you?

Still, they ought to do some good as a distraction so the panzerjagers and panzer iiis can make a serious try without all getting splattered.

Panzerjager I vs T-34s are pretty sad. Your kingdom for a few marders or hetzers, right?

Just pray a KV doesn't show up...

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 12:33 PM

Quote

Just pray a KV doesn't show up...

:clapping:

I really could do with anything with some serious frontal armour, yes.  I know the PJ is an early, bare-bones design, but at least put some serious metal on the front...

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#11 Space Voyager

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 12:40 PM

I admit I am having some troubles keeping a view of the battlefield, so thanks for posting the whole picture in this last update.

I have a question or two on these reinforcements... Are they advance or time dependant? Can you influence them in any way before the battle even? Asking because this last batch seems worth waiting, while hiding in a bush or something...

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 12:52 PM

Thanks for letting me know, SV.  Will do those more frequently.

The reinforcements in some scenarios are random, in this one they're predetermined.  The latest batch are probably the most immediately useful, although that infantry will have to roll across a lot of open ground before they can be of any use.  They won't survive that exposure to tank fire, so that problem has to be solved first.

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#13 Thorondor

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:04 PM

Quote

This is a veteran crew, by the way. I can only assume an inexperienced crew would simply blow themselves up to save everybody time.
:clapping:

::

I gather us wurst-gobblers won't be the only ones getting reinforcements, then, ya?  :P

#14 silencer_pl

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:39 PM

View PostFullAuto, on 15th February 2012, 11:33am, said:

:clapping:

I really could do with anything with some serious frontal armour, yes.  I know the PJ is an early, bare-bones design, but at least put some serious metal on the front...

That would be asking for Tiger or Panther since Germans didn't have anything to stop KV in face to face battle.... Maybe a pak-38 AT would be nice or pak 40?
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:04 PM

Neither were around in '41.  So, I'm really shit out of luck.  The Russians had some absolutely great tanks, the T-34 was probably the best tank in the world when it was made, and remained relevant throughout the war.  Taking it on this early in the war is a bit of a struggle, and the KV is just a nightmare.  The best you can hope for is a mobility kill, which requires lots of shots and luck.

The Pak 40 (good old 75mm, how I adore thee) would be ideal, with a brace of Pak 38s for dessert.  Mmm.  Lovely.   :clapping:

Quote

I gather us wurst-gobblers won't be the only ones getting reinforcements, then, ya?

They definitely have.  I've only seen tanks so far, but they probably have a lot of infantry in place anyway.
Posted Image
Reinforcement points duly circled (ovaled?) in our respective colours.  I received two loads on my left flank, at the rear, and my most recent lot are just easing out of the bottom-right corner.  The enemy reinforcements, as far as I could see, were T-34s at the back, and a platoon of light tanks, not sure of the model yet, from the right.

Turn 17

With the infantry assault gone badly awry on the left, the mortars are called in to save the day.  Jork's section takes another two casualties and panics.  Bombs start raining down on the enemy positions.
Posted Image
7 50mm mortars, each with 30 bombs.  The explosive power of each bomb isn't much, but when you consider the rate of fire is approx 15 rounds a minute, they quickly add up.  The enemies soon stop firing, and Jork's section regain their senses and crawl back along their own trail of dead.

The PJs club together, just off to the left of the infantry assault.
Posted Image
Best to hunt that Stug-killer as a pack, chaps.  Minus the PJ nosing into the field, guarding your right flank.

In the centre, the second infantry section to sit in a crater by the railway is not as lucky as the first, and comes under fire from a T-34.
Posted Image
A cardinal sin, getting noticed, but they have an excellent view of the surrounding area, and two MGs to take advantage of it.  Another 500m fire arc set.

On the right, one of my Pz IIIH reinforcements spots their first T-34, and opens fire.
Posted Image
Veteran crew does its job yet again, and they consistently hit the target (7 shots, 5 hits, not bad at 858m), but to no effect.  The shells simply ricochet into the air.  You keep on knocking, but you can't come in.

Turn 18

The PJs advance together, and engage the T-34 as a trio.  The T-34 slams it into reverse.
Posted Image
But it was no use, and successive 47mm AP rounds actually managed to penetrate, and the crew bail out before the tank even stops rolling.  Bonus Stug house destruction, too.

The remaining PJ, slowly crossing the field, is spotted by a T-34.
Posted Image
Time to get a move on before it gets torn apart.

As one of my reinforcement tank platoons ease into hull-down positions on railway ridge, one of them bogs down.
Posted Image
And then gets totally stuck.  Scratch one tank.

In the centre, the infantry advance has slowed to a crawl, because, well, there's about 10 T-34s hunting around nearby.
Posted Image
The infantry stay as deep in the trees as they can, finding craters or little hollows to hide in, and wait for the tank problem to be solved.

My Pz IIIH gets lucky at long range.
Posted Image
I might have to get the Stugs to join in too, and see how it goes.  The two Pz IIIG platoons (minus one idiot) I got as reinforcements on the left, and the Pz IIIG and Pz IIIH reinforcement platoons on the right, plus the Stugs, might actually kill some T-34s, if only through sheer weight of fire.

Turn 19

The PJ thinks about reversing for just a little bit too long.
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The entire 3-man crew somehow survive.  Truly, there is no justice.

The bomb rain stops, and the infantry burst forward, two fresh sections sprinting over open ground, one jumping into a vacated enemy position, the other disappearing amongst the rubble of the destroyed house.
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Note the three T-34s in the background.  Russian reinforcements moving up, spotted by my infantry in their craters up on railway ridge.

As the three tanks of the Pz III platoon peeps over railway ridge, their attention is divided.  The tank on the right, as you can see by the targeting line, is shooting at a tank over the other side of the ridge, whereas the other two tanks are shooting at the T-34 reinforcements in the previous image (hence the 'side upper hull hit, ricochet' result).
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The range for either set of targets is too long, and hits produce nothing but ricochets.

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#16 FullAuto

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:07 AM

Turn 20

My PJs MtC forward, tank hunting, and one of them gets hit once and is KO'd.  Bonus Stug house destruction again, though.
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No idea where that came from.  I suspect an AT gun not a million miles away, as it was a first-shot-hit, I think.  It didn't shoot at the other PJs though, and they were close by.  Hmm.

The infantry push forward yet again on the left, and yet again enemy units pop up and engage them.
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This is turning into a slog, but at least I'm getting somewhere.  Soon be going house to house, I hope.  I'll be exploding out into the place once my platoons file through this narrow corridor of trees.

My Panzer IV platoon finally move their fat arses and get in on the action.  I'm not expecting much, given their relatively puny L/24 75mm, but I'll cross my fingers.
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If not, they can start shelling infantry and blowing up houses.

It was the turn of the tank surge, and all my Pz III platoons and Stugs edged forward and started shooting, and although the ranges averaged out to about 700m, quite a few hits were achieved.  Most were ricochets, but there were a few penetrations and partial penetrations.
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Sadly, no T-34s died as a result, they just kept moving and/or shooting back.  Damned Russian designs, too robust for my own good.  However, none of my tanks were hit, at all.  Heartening result.

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#17 silencer_pl

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:37 AM

Shame on that PJ's your only real weapon against T-34's.... With your current armored divisions you'd be very lucky to get a kill. And those early P4's crap of a gun... Are those P3's equipped with 5 cm KwK 38 L/42 gun ? This gun is way better than that short prick what P4 has unless using HEAT ammo.
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Posted 17 February 2012 - 02:32 PM

Yes, the Pz IVs only have bog standard AP rounds, much like my Stugs, who have the same short-barrelled 75mm gun.  Can't be relied upon outside of close range.  The 50mm L/42 is better, but it's still not something you can bank on.  I think the 50mm L/60 was introduced in late 41, early 42?  Could do with some!

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#19 silencer_pl

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:19 PM

Panzer III Ausf. J¹ - Equipped with the longer and more powerful 5 cm KwK 39 L/60 gun. 1,067 produced in late 1941 to mid 1942. Still it would be better for P4 with 75mm KwK 40 L/43
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#20 Thorondor

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:12 PM

How about 'abducting' one of those T-34s, FA? :P Is it possible to flush out an enemy tank's crew without outright destroying the vehicle?

On the infantry front, you're not in much better luck; what with Panzerbüchse 39 AT rifles, which are about as good as airguns against T-34s.

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Better stuff like the Faustpatrone (predecessor of the Panzerfaust) only in 1942. Scheiße! :clapping:



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