New XCOM trailer


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#141 silencer_pl

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 02:37 PM

View PostBomb Bloke, on 29th August 2011, 11:29am, said:

... but surely they're gonna have some real armour at some point, right?

... Right?!


Armour is for pussies :P
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#142 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:36 PM

Armour is to aid my ailing suspension of disbelief. Still haven't gotten over the bit where the guy takes the titan cannon to the face...  :P

That thing was supposed to be the big scary death-dealer players would have to retreat from, to force you to leave while the going was still good. Watching the guy be minorly inconvenienced by a dead-on shot from it blows all that away. Can't help but wonder whether all it's effectiveness is gonna come from scripting.

In the original games, assuming the unlikely case where a soldier would survive something like that, they'd take speed/accuracy/etc penalties until they received medical attention, and if they didn't get it they'd probably bleed out within seconds.

Still, I was thinking about it last night, and it dawned on me that the answer to all this is quite simple: They're not making an X-COM game at all! The small teams, the suits... this game will demonstrate how the MIB got started!!
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#143 silencer_pl

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 06:57 AM

You know in original X-Com a soldier could survive heavy plasma shot with no armour (sectoids too) :P and no damage taken.

Remember that on easy level thigs might look different on pro veteran level :P
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#144 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 12:13 PM

Yeah, they could take a glancing shot if the dice were right. Quite possible to take 0%. But, um, I doubt it was a random coincidence in that trailer.

Guess you're right, settings may well have something to do with that, so I guess we'll see.
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#145 Greywalker Zero

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:20 AM

I want to make this very clear: 2K are taking the piss - bare with me and I shall explain.

It's all very well the narrator assuring us, AGAIN, that everyone at 2K Marin, LIKE HIM, is a massive RPG geek with a metric fuckton of respect for the original XCOM series when everything points to them being the antithesis of it.
In my experience, the average 'RPG Geek' have very specific qualities that tend to stand out from the general population (ie. non RPG Geeks :) ): namely, they're quite creative, generally very perceptive, adapt to game / mathematical systems with uncanny speed and, last but by no means least, are incredibly imaginitive to the point where some of them will be creating game systems on the fly, developping character profiles and story elements simultaneously, effecting system changes outside of the essential rule perogative and, ultimately, coming up with something beautiful and unique even when making a tribute to somethat has already gone before.
Why?  Because a Geek LOVES what they do - it's not just a hobby, it's a way of life and a means to express their most intrinsic desires and personalities (no matter how much of a fuck they happen to be! :P ).

I'm saying this now because I want you to understand why I'm toning down the rant that's NOT coming and why I'm going to keep this as objective as possible.  And why I won't be paying full price for the game.  And why, if I pick it up at all, it will be for the most pathetic amount of my hard earned money.  That's assuming I just don't boycott this PoS.

[Observation Mode]

I take it back, it's not a CoD rip off, it's a Mass Effect 1 rip off with somethjing that can't be too far shy of a coding plagerism of Fall Out 3's VATS system renamed as  'Time Units'.  That's just for starters.  :P

That mission screen was abyssmal: As BombBloke points out, not one of those characters on screen could keep still for more than a second, right down to the gaming stereotype woman handing out the mission - she really needs to go to the toilet and get that thrush sorted out!
I wonder how often, later in the game, we're going to walk in to that orchestrated testing session with flamboyantly unpredicatble weaponry?  Every other mission, perhaps, or is that too obvious?

Then there's the Agent Experience screen.  Really?  Are you telling me that the only difference between the one in that gameplay demo and the one in Mass Effect 2 is actually ANY different?  I hope not, otherwise the ridicule will start to fly.

The second part that made me want to hurt someone at 2K Marin came up as they showed us the Mission Board, as the narrator tried to convince us that with the original XCOM games it could get a little 'overwhelming' with all of the missions and their locations.  Really?  How so?  Is it because it was on a global scale?  Was it because there could be more than 5 on the trot if you got gang-banged by a half-dozen saucers?  Or was it because the missions didn't follow an OBVIOUS and entirely linnear pattern like the new XCOM?  I'm still at a loss on that one... ;)

And then there's the actual mission they have decided to show us...

Let's start with the pitiful SkyRanger nod.  Firstly, if there an FPS now that DOESN'T have a chopper flight scene?  No?  Hmmm.
How about the feeble Ghostbusters nod with the two of them checking each others packs?
Don't get me started on the dialogue - I spend a lot of time writing (does it show? ;) ) and what those characters say during the mission is quite simply moronic.  As pointed out earlier, these characters have apparently seen a woman defragment in a video clip and a giant fractal cannon appear out of nowhere and annihlated some dude and a car: 'What's going on here?' is the kind of thing you'd expect from a B-Movie cop or a Star Trek Red Shirt who's about to get turned in to 10m long smear of salsa.  How about some dynamic dialogue?  Something that tells me that these characters are weathered professionals who have seen human violence enough to recognise a shoot-out in a tent before?  Maybe?  Hmmm....

So much for the sandbox-esque mission profile they suggested over a year ago; that looked about as linear as Bioshock 1.
Add to that the circumstantial events - while the flaming bus was pretty, in a cartoony sort of way, again I can't help but wonder if BombBloke is bang on the money about it being a scripted event.  If so, and keeping in mind that most of the events in the Bioshock games are ALL scripted, it's fair to assume that, players have an odd tendancy to be looking the OTHER WAY when shit goes down because they were attracted to something else (usually a big gun and ammo, in my case).
Let's also not forget that stick-scenery first gun fight with the flanking position and the number of times we've seen that.  Brothers at Arms, the early CoD, First to Fight, Mass Effect, another Us Army advertising game I can't remember the name of right now...  We've seen this over and over again and, while an effective strategy, it's not something you use as the advertising ploy to confirm it AS a strategy game: the player will be doing this anyway because they've played ALL the OTHER FPSs on the market.
It's also during this fire-fight that we see the Mass Effect rip as clearly as day (assuming you're not blind, but then, you'd not likely be playing computer games if you were blind, but you get my point...).  Time comes to a NEAR halt, providing the player a chance to determine what his 'strategy' is going to be and to order his 'left and right fist' to use their special abilities.  As we can see on the Character Experience Board, these characters won't get any more than 4 abilities (just like in Mass Efffect 2) which grow in effect each level (just like in Mass Effect 2) over the subsequent 4 levels of capped experience (just like in... oh, you get the gist...), and, unremarkably, is accessible on that skills wheel that operates under what is, assumably the EXACT same game mechanic and controller layout.

[/Observatrion Mode]

There's more I can point out, but I have to do some work today, so I'm going to give yo my final verdict:
2K Marin has made a game that has taken a game experience that was rated within the top 5 PC games of ALL TIME and dumbed it down for players with an IQ of 10 or less.
The arguement that it's a game designed for children is a load of shite because it's got scenes of graphic violence and horror and carrys a minimum of a 15 certifcate already (PEGI 16) and is likely to go up before release, so they're aiming this at people who actually MAY remember the original games.
The CEO of 2K is telling us that if Ray Charles was kicking out tunes today he'd be Kanye West?  No he fucking wouldn't, he'd be Ray Charles: someone who COULD play an instrument, someone who COULD sing and, most of all, COULD write a song himself.  So, given what we KNOW of Ray Charles, Kanye West, the original UFO Enemy Unknown / XCOM series and our inherent knowledge as a forum FULL OF RPG GEEKS we can summerise THREE facts without a hint of doubt:

1> 2K are about to release a game that is plagerising several other mainstream titles.
2> They have FAILED entirely to meet the expectations of the fan base that made the original franchise popular in the first place.
3> The CEO, the narrator and all of their game design, mechanic and concept staff are all full of shit.

Just my opinion, by the way...  :)
Oh my... A shiny new PLASMA RIFLE!  Mmmmmm... plasma rifle...

#146 FullAuto

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:35 AM

Don't hold back.  Tell us how you really feel.

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#147 silencer_pl

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 01:10 PM

Someone should take a deep breath :P and stop takeing everything seriuosly.

I can't deny some facts pointed, though I don't care about it, I will treat this game as any other casual game that I will play.

About script events, do tell me, what normal games don't have scripted events now ? I don't remember which game started the scripted events thing, but since them every major and pretendets to be major (specaily FPS) have scripted events - you must live with it.

About copying from other games, also above - there are plenty games that copy something from each other.

For example - Mafia ripped of from GTA - did someone care/complain ? No. Back then there was plenty of Wolf/Doom clones. Some of them were good, some were forgotten - did someone cared? No.

If you look deep enough you will find many other plagiarism, and still no one cares, no one sue it.
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#148 Thorondor

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:36 PM

It's evident enough that this particular mission is scripted to kingdom come.

It could be that it's something that happens just in story missions, but I have a feeling there will be more than just a few of those.

The main problem with such missions is that there's a "wrong way" to do them and a "right way" to do them. Jump through the hoops or face the pain.

Known side-effects: repetition, frustration, er... keyboard mashing!

Still, we know these aren't the only kind of mission around.

In "Fetch The Elerium™" missions, or "Take A Picture, It Lasts Longer™" missions on the other hand, all they need to do is randomise the map, the location of the Elerium/target, and the spawned in baddies plus their 'loot drops'.

Likely a bit more 'sandboxy', but unfortunately potentially irksome too seeing as you know you're on a clock and it's rush hour time and again. The purported intention is to induce tension, so the longer you stay chances are the more spawns you'll get until you have to make a run for it or are turned into tiny rubik cubes of the weird variety...

Fortunately you're not alone. Two guardian angels partake in the proceedings.

Will our smartly-attired sidekicks Tweedledee and Tweedledum always behave and assist, or will they eventually get in your way, staring at the pretty lights in the sky as you struggle for dear life, screaming, yet without making a sound?

What happens, Agent Carter, when you die?

Ah, I see...

So, you don't.

Thank heavens!

Back to base, sweet base. Singular, secret, safe.

::

And so on, and so forth, as there's surely more to this than meets the eye. The truth is out there...

#149 silencer_pl

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:33 PM

View PostThorondor, on 1st September 2011, 4:36pm, said:

Fortunately you're not alone. Two guardian angels partake in the proceedings.

Will our smartly-attired sidekicks Tweedledee and Tweedledum always behave and assist, or will they eventually get in your way, staring at the pretty lights in the sky as you struggle for dear life, screaming, yet without making a sound?

Too much negative energy :P

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What happens, Agent Carter, when you die?


you die and you press magical immortal load (or you go back in time to the last checkpoint) :P

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It's evident enough that this particular mission is scripted to kingdom come.

That is what hurts me the most. But I guess in each main plot missions in every game scripts are involved in tons.
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#150 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:58 PM

I don't mind a bit of scripting in the story missions. Heck, I didn't even whinge about the railroading. I'm just inclined to assume that all missions will be like the one we saw, but we'd need to see a fair few more gameplay videos in order to tell.

Worth noting that the original games did a really good job of avoiding scripted scenarios, and it's not like such things were uncommon even back then. Even in Apocalypse, the aliens ramp up their technology because you're starting to win, not because you finished story mission X.

Actually, come to think of it, Aftermath is probably a good example of scripting done right. I say that because it has "one of a kind" missions throughout, but they're so few and far between that I've no idea what triggered them. I'll have to play the rest of that series some day.

View Postsilencer_pl, on 1st September 2011, 11:10pm, said:

For example - Mafia ripped of from GTA - did someone care/complain ?
It would be nice if this one ripped off X-COM, though.

View PostThorondor, on 2nd September 2011, 2:36am, said:

Will our smartly-attired sidekicks Tweedledee and Tweedledum always behave and assist, or will they eventually get in your way, staring at the pretty lights in the sky as you struggle for dear life, screaming, yet without making a sound?
It looks like you can always order them to go away and sit behind one of the (scripted) cover points if they bother you.

Don't think much of their use in combat though, putting aside the perk thing. That "flank" scenario for example, where the aliens turned their shields away from the two guys to protect themselves from the single player - which turned out to be the right choice, because they came to no harm until the player got the shield pointing away from himself.
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#151 silencer_pl

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:21 AM

View PostBomb Bloke, on 1st September 2011, 9:58pm, said:

Worth noting that the original games did a really good job of avoiding scripted scenarios, and it's not like such things were uncommon even back then. Even in Apocalypse, the aliens ramp up their technology because you're starting to win, not because you finished story mission X.

Lets see, terror mission each month :P, some aliens stop appearing at certain point (or they appear 1 in 100, alien movment, aliens see all after 20 turn :P

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Actually, come to think of it, Aftermath is probably a good example of scripting done right. I say that because it has "one of a kind" missions throughout, but they're so few and far between that I've no idea what triggered them. I'll have to play the rest of that series some day.

Depends how you see it. I think that biomass appears even when you don't go to the 2 plot secret bases, bah If you are starting in asia, you'll go far later to area 51, by that time you should have know the location of alien base. How do they find out where the base is ? Also the far into the game the more deadlier aliens are, not to mention that PSI ruins late game, attacking bases and large UFOs is purely suicide.

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It would be nice if this one ripped off X-COM, though.

True, but we can't do anything about it.

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It looks like you can always order them to go away and sit behind one of the (scripted) cover points if they bother you.

Don't think much of their use in combat though, putting aside the perk thing. That "flank" scenario for example, where the aliens turned their shields away from the two guys to protect themselves from the single player - which turned out to be the right choice, because they came to no harm until the player got the shield pointing away from himself.

In what game sidekicks where helpfull other than being a meatshield ? (Fallout 2 excluded ;) )

In most tactical game the player is the killing machine.
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#152 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 09:17 AM

View Postsilencer_pl, on 2nd September 2011, 5:21pm, said:

Lets see, terror mission each month :P, some aliens stop appearing at certain point (or they appear 1 in 100, alien movment, aliens see all after 20 turn :P
Soldier sprites appearing at the start of each mission, day turning to night, bullets causing death...  :)

A better example would be alien spawn nodes... Learn them well enough and you'll have a pretty good idea as to how safe/dangerous a given area of a map will be.

I reckon you get what I'm on about, though - scenarios! For example, in the first couple of games, the outcome of only one mission mattered - that being the last. It really didn't matter if you won/lost/drawed any of the other missions (unless you were fighting to defend your last base/dollar) - it was up to you how to do things, or even if you'd bother to do them at all.

View Postsilencer_pl, on 2nd September 2011, 5:21pm, said:

In what game sidekicks where helpfull other than being a meatshield ? (Fallout 2 excluded ;) )

In most tactical game the player is the killing machine.
I put aside the RPG and strategy genres (both of which 2k reckons this new game falls under, so I really should dip into them, but it'd be too easy to spit out examples), so I'll admit I had to put a bit of thought into this one. Don't play many shooters.

So I decided on Conflict: Desert Storm, which may not be a valid example because it lets you switch between team members and has co-op support (something we don't have confirmed for XCOM yet). Your buddies will, in fact, kill enemies at about the same speed you do, if not faster, depending on their position/weapons.
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#153 Space Voyager

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:50 AM

Should X-Com Have Stayed Turn-based? At IGN.

BTW, getting a new turn-based X-COM with Frozen Synapse battle system incorporated would be the best thing ever.

#154 FullAuto

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:35 AM

I think what's most entertaining is the idea that turn-based strategy, and to a lesser extent, RTS, are no longer commercially viable genres.  TBS simply isn't, at all, and RTS is on PC, but nowhere else.

So they take a license, use it, and make a game that isn't a strategy.  The IGN example of Front Mission Evolved is a good one, total genre change, and the game didn't review well, and didn't sell well.  So I can see the X-Com and Syndicate licenses being shelved forever if their new games don't sell.

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Apart from having the coolest music in the universe, their recent offering Frozen Synapse is also one of the first 'simultaneous' turn-based games ever made. It works on both levels; it's been a hit but it's not attractive enough to make it on the consoles.

Could easily be released on Live and PSN.  I've picked up several TBS games on PSN, which I've really enjoyed.

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#155 silencer_pl

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 11:47 AM

View PostFullAuto, on 19th September 2011, 9:35am, said:

I think what's most entertaining is the idea that turn-based strategy, and to a lesser extent, RTS, are no longer commercially viable genres.  TBS simply isn't, at all, and RTS is on PC, but nowhere else.

I can see this - Sid Meier (sp?) revamps his Civilization project - due to TBS being dumped by the market his next project will be a First Person Shooter.

Few months back - I have searched the shelves of our local megastore (similar to Amazon) - 80% of games I have found were FPS - I mean come on where is the choice - all I get is FPS, crap, FPS, crap FPS....

You know I have lately played few independed games and I wonder why are some better than mainstream projects worth gazilions of  $$$ ?

As I am always saying - Consoles ruined gaming market.
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#156 silencer_pl

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:03 AM

XCOM dev diary .

Now you can know "what is" XCOM :P
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#157 Thorondor

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 05:17 PM

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::

- These pajamas are itchy...
- Shut up or I'll shoot you as an infiltrator.

:P

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#158 Space Voyager

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:55 PM

Yes, clothing is abominable for X-COM...

#159 Zombie

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:23 PM

View PostSpace Voyager, on 23rd September 2011, 1:55pm, said:

Yes, clothing is abominable for XCOM...
Here, I fixed it for you. :P

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A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
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They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
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#160 Space Voyager

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 06:00 AM

He he, ok, you're right.




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