Alien Advancement (TFTD)

[endersblade]

As the topic says, what causes the 'upgrade' in aliens?

 

I started a new TFTD game the other day. I decided I wanted to spend some time in the early game, leveling my units as best as I could before moving on. I researched gauss tech up to heavy, researched aquatoid/gillman corpses as well as Deep One corpses, aqua plastics, and plastic aqua-armor. I researched one aquatoid squaddy and one gillman tech. That was IT. However, by the end of the FIRST freaking month, I was starting to see lobstermen. Wtf? I never got a terror site (no ships or otherwise) during the first month after my very first one, where I got the Deep One. I never saw a calcenite terrorist. I went from seeing very small/small ships, to suddenly seeing dreadnaughts. And this was all on the noobie setting!

 

I have modded my game, but nothing (that I know of) that would cause this. Did I hit a bug? Did I research something that caused the jump?

[The Veteran]

I'm not that switched on with the inner workings of these games but I have a strong feeling that it's linked to the game score... If that's right then it's very unusual that you've seen such a steep rise in difficulty this early in an easy game.

 

I'll page NKF and Bomb-Bloke, either one of them should be able to set you straight

[endersblade]

Much appreciated with the help :-)

 

I started another game, this time not researching ANYTHING at all. Let me tell you...sticking with harpoon guns sucks lol. (I've upgraded the gauss weapons a bit via editing, I've gotten used to not sucking so hard :-P)

 

I managed to get two terror sites, as well as seeing a calcenite. Made it to month two before seeing medium ships. Cool, can certainly deal. I then researched up to gauss rifles (I don't really use heavy anyway) and didn't really notice a huge change. Started seeing more gillmen than aquatoids. Again, not an issue. Had to stop playing there though.

 

I'm almost positive it's linked to research (kind of a 'duh' thing) but I'm not sure by how much. If researching plastic armor and heavy gauss brought out the dreads, I really need to see about nerfing the scores that certain research gives you...

[The Veteran]

It would certainly make sense that it could be linked to research. After all, the better you get, the better you need the enemy to be for many reasons. Maintaining the challenge, further improving your equipment and progressing the game.

 

I'm surprised you haven't heard from the eggheads yet, something really important must be keeping them. After all I know Tammy is back so maybe they're trolling in the lovenest

[kyrub]

I'm almost positive it's linked to research (kind of a 'duh' thing) but I'm not sure by how much. If researching plastic armor and heavy gauss brought out the dreads, I really need to see about nerfing the scores that certain research gives you...

It is much more simple. It's linked to the game time, to the month elapsed.

 

On February-March, you have a 10% chance of seeing a Lobsterman on a research mission. It does not happen often, but you may still witness it. On my first ever TFTD game, I had one lobsterman in late February. My 10 guys could not down him with Gauss weapons. On that day, I became x-com addict.

 

If you see Infiltration or Base building missions in these months, there's 20% chance it's Lobstermen. I don't remember ever seeing that, though.

[NKF]

Does it work in reverse with aquatoids/gillmen and their chance of appearing starts droping as time goes on? Or is it just that lobstermen and tasoth and later both sets of mixed crews just get such high probabilities that the aquatoids and gillmen get overshadowed by them?

 

Also one oddball: colonies. No matter who establishes them, you'll meet Tasoth on the first map and Lobstermen on the second. I imagine if one is established really early into the game, you'll get to meet these aliens before they're due.

 

- NKF

[kyrub]

Here's the full time layout for TFTD. Every 2-digits entry represents 10% of that race appearing on a given type of mission. Every row represents 100% for the given type of mission in respective month. (The line separates normal missions from terror-sites and base defense.). As an example, on first month you're guaranteed 100% to get terror site with Gillmen, on second month you can suffer a lobstermen base defence in 30% of cases. Mmm.

 

Rows:

0 Research

1 Harvest

2 Abduction

3 Infiltration

4 Base

5 Terror

6 Retaliation

 

Races:

00 sectoids 01 gillman 02 lobstermen 03 tasoth 04 mixed crew

Month 0-1

00000000000000010101

00000000000101010101

00000000000001010101

00000000000001010101

00000001010101010101

01010101010101010101

00000000000001010101

 

Month 2-3

00000000000002010101

00000000000101010101

00000000010101010101

00000000000202010101

00000000020201010101

00000101010101010101

00000002020201010101

 

Month 4-5

00000002020201010101

00000002020101010101

00000000000101010101

00000202020101010101

00020202020101010202

00000202020202010101

00000202010101010101

Month 6-7

00000102020202030303

00020202020303030303

00000003030303030303

00010101020203030303

00010101010202020303

00010101040402020303

00000101010202020303

 

Month >7

00000101020203030303

00000002020203030303

00000000000303030303

00000101020202020203

00010102020202020203

00000101020203040404

00010202020202020303

 

Also one oddball: colonies. No matter who establishes them, you'll meet Tasoth on the first map and Lobstermen on the second.

Yes, that is hardcoded. TFTD bases are hard to exploit, but somewhat dull, when you do them for the nth time (to me at least). The designers could have gone for a 50% chance for mixed crew in the 2nd part or something similar.

[Zombie]

Since I converted the percentages to a graphical representation for Enemy Unknown, I figured it was only natural to do the same for TFTD.

 

Alien Probe

 

 

Alien Interdiction

 

 

Alien Resource Raid

 

 

Alien Infiltration

 

 

Alien Colony Expansion

 

 

Alien Surface Attack

 

Floating Base Attack

 

 

Didn't take very long to do these graphs... when you change the data in an Excel spreadsheet, the graph automatically updates.

 

- Zombie

[NKF]

It's still fascinating information. The chance of an early appearance by Lobstermen backs up some stories from players who have claimed to seen them early. More of a teaser appearance than a major threat. Also I can't believe I find it relieving that are the main base attackers from September onwards.

 

The fact Gillman land missions have a very small chance to appear later on is also good to know, albeit rarer than the rare mixed crews. Obviously Deep-One hunting season is the first four months. Calcinites are also incredibly rare creatures.

 

- NKF

[Fomka]

One player happened to encounter Lobstermen Resource Raids in DOS version. USOs were Heavy Cruisers and Hunters. The table in ufopaedia's article, however, says that Lobstermen would never do Resource Raids. May that hardcoded table differ between DOS and Windows version or is it some error?

 

What does "Month 0-1" mean? There is no month 0, it's month 12 before month 1.

[NKF]

I was starting to wonder if the dos and CE versions, and possibly different patches, had different tables.

 

The reference to month 0 - 1 isn't using conventional date numbering. More like an array reference where the index number starts from 0. In effect it's Jan - Feb.

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

One player happened to encounter Lobstermen Resource Raids in DOS version. USOs were Heavy Cruisers and Hunters. The table in ufopaedia's article, however, says that Lobstermen would never do Resource Raids. May that hardcoded table differ between DOS and Windows version or is it some error?

Fresh game with no installed mods/editors?

 

I was starting to wonder if the dos and CE versions, and possibly different patches, had different tables.

Could be possible. Too bad I don't know where the data starts in the exe, otherwise I would check.

 

- Zombie

[MhBlis]

Even on veteran I've often seen Lobstermen late febuary.

 

What I will say that if you someone discover an alien base in Feb then pretty much every mission after that will be Tasoth or Lobstermen. And I have yet to actually assualt the base since my game is only in Early March now.

 

Though from past experiences it would seem that score does have some role to play because in games where I do poorly the aliens don't seem to upgrade that fast.

[NKF]

Hmm, you know I've never watched how the game actually schedules its missions, but it's possible that the game will have started scheduling the activity for the start of next month towards the end of the current month. If the counter for the next lobsterman submarine (if one is scheduled) is set close enough, a Lobsterman submarine may very well start appearing towards the end of February, even though the probabilities begin in the March - April bracket.

 

Lobstermen should start appearing rather regularly from March onwards, so it's not surprising you'll encounter a lot of them once a colony is established. Their probabilities actally are quite high, so you'll meet lots of them. Tasoth submarines on the other hand shouldn't start appearing until July though, or if my theory above is correct, towards the end of June. They'll always appear in the colony or artefact sites though.

 

- NKF

[MhBlis]

Yeah my return to TFTD from 4 years ago has been a bit rough.

 

I don't remember seeing Tasoths that early in the game in past.

 

Though I would definatly say the DOS version will have different tables since in DOS version I always found the upgrades in ship size much faster but the aliens not as much.

[chiasaur11]

Can confirm aquatoid base attacks as late as October. Have a save right now if proof is needed.

 

(Just played it today. Only one fatality with no MC or explosives and minimal tank use. Admittedly, most people were in Ion armor. And a rookie somehow took three panic attacks despite a weak psi score, holding a key line on his own. Good on him.)

[Bomb Bloke]

Kryub's list shows Aquatoids performing base attacks in any month?

 

The numbering may not be so clear-cut as "one table per two months". He does state that you've got a 30% chance of getting lobstermen performing base attacks in the second month, not the third and fourth.

[NKF]

There could also be a fencepost problem here. How is month 0 interpreted? Is it the month before January, or is it January? If 0 is December, then all the tables I made are a month out.

 

- NKF

 

P. S:

 

I don't think I've linked the table I did of Kyrub's data on the appearance rates in this thread. I posted the link in the UFO thread for both games, but for the benefit of those not aware of that thread, here's the TFTD table:

 

https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=A...tios_%28TFTD%29

 

Zombie's already got the graph version of the tables 10 posts back.

[Zombie]

The numbering may not be so clear-cut as "one table per two months". He does state that you've got a 30% chance of getting lobstermen performing base attacks in the second month, not the third and fourth.

He just used the wrong word. It's not the second month, it's the second entry which corresponds to Mar-Apr. If it was Feb, there would be 3 entries in the Month 0-1 table having values of 02. It does not.

 

There could also be a fencepost problem here. How is month 0 interpreted? Is it the month before January, or is it January? If 0 is December, then all the tables I made are a month out.

I don't really see how the programmers could "start" the alien appearance clock ticking in December when the game actually begins in January. So I think we are fine. Of course, some empirical testing could help here. I could, however, imagine the programmers making January a "scripted" month and then actually starting the clock on Feb instead of Jan. That would explain the people coming here and reporting later than anticipated mission types.

 

BTW, Fomka linked the wiki page a few posts back. Getting old?

 

- Zombie

[Bomb Bloke]

Easiest test would be to alter the tables; rig the first to contain nothing but aquatoids, the second to only have gillmen, and so on. Import an advanced set of bases (with transmission resolvers) into a new campaign (copy'n'paste base/loc files from an older save) and see what floats by over the next few months.

[Zombie]

I'd have to agree, if kyrub actually provided the offset where the data starts in the exe. Data doesn't do us much good unless we can test it to see how it works from the game's standpoint.

 

- Zombie

[kyrub]

Sorry, guys, I've been a bit out of time lately.

 

 

The offset where data table starts for Enemy unknown is

0x6E53C

 

Month '0' = January. (that's how the game uses it)

And I should have written "Lobstermen in March". A mistake from my part.

 

Last but not least, I cannot dismiss the possibility that a race appears a month later than it should. The mission data may be created in previous month, but the time scope of the mission could exceed the month in question. (I am not sure it works so, but it is entirely possible based on my current knowledge of the code.)

[NKF]

That would be the CE offset. If you look for the phrase " file doesn't seem to have a PALETTE chunk!", it should be just a bit after "shot%04d.tga". The soldier names aren't too far after the tables too.

 

For dos 1.4 it's in geoscape.exe just near the soldier name table. For MS Edit @ 100 columns, it's roughly near or at row: 3707 column: 36.

 

For TFTD v2, geoscape.exe, also just above the aquanaut name table. Right at the end of "alien

[Zombie]

That would be the CE offset. If you look for the phrase " file doesn't seem to have a PALETTE chunk!", it should be just a bit after "shot%04d.tga". The soldier names aren't too far after the tables too.

 

For dos 1.4 it's in geoscape.exe just near the soldier name table. For MS Edit @ 100 columns, it's roughly near or at row: 3707 column: 36.

 

For TFTD v2, geoscape.exe, also just above the aquanaut name table. Right at the end of "alien

[NKF]

Yes, because MS-Edit starts its rows and columns with 1, you have to add 1 when converting decimal offsets into MS-Edit row/cols.

 

Actually, I didn't notice this since I was editing the dos executables, but the UFO executable has the rows lined up nicely at 100 columns. If you were to work at 10 columns instead of 100 columns, they'd be laid out like Kyrub's data above. Much easier to inspect and change. It's just a pain to scroll though!

 

- NKF