Hearts of Iron 2 Armageddon


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#1 Zombie

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 03:09 AM

Right, I downloaded Armageddon the other day and had a chance to look at it just before. Noticed a few changes right off the bat with research teams and such. The biggest is of course the intelligence tab. Lots of new stuff there, which is where most of my questions will deal with. ;)

First up: spies. I understand the theory, but not the mechanics. Why the flock do I (as the United States) have spies in the UK? I suppose anyone who is technologically advanced is just asking to be infiltrated, but still.

Why are my spies so terrible and why is it modeled so unrealistically? I mean, the US starts out with spies having a 22% chance of infiltrating most nations. Shouldn't it be easier to infiltrate a 3rd world nation like, oh, El Salvador than it is to infiltrate Japan or Germany? If you pay the right person enough in those smaller countries you could probably get a tour of their research facilities which includes an "all access" pass to the restricted areas as well. No spies would even be necessary. Now Japan on the other hand should be wary of Westerners and getting a spy to infiltrate them should be more difficult. Not so. (At least, not from what I've seen so far). :oh:

How do my spies get better? I can't risk sending spies somewhere if they will be detected all the time.

Right now there are 33 spies in the US from various countries. I understand that I can send spies to my own country which supposedly protects me from them somewhat. There's also a counter-espionage option. When I tried that with 1 spy in my own country, it failed to locate anyone and my lone spy vanished into thin air. What happened to him? Defected? :) How exactly do spies and counter-espionage work?

I'll have more questions, don't worry. This is just the start. :)

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#2 FullAuto

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 09:20 AM

First thing, get the 1.3 patch.

Install that, it fixes the last few bugs and changes how the intelligence system works.

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#3 Zombie

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 01:55 PM

View PostFullAuto, on 9th October 2009, 4:20am, said:

First thing, get the 1.3 patch.

Install that, it fixes the last few bugs and changes how the intelligence system works.
I'll say. Instead of being unrealistic it's now an utter joke. Everyone can (and does) try to steal blueprints from me (playing as the US), yet I cannot because I "need to fund [my] intelligence agencies to be able to gain any information on foreign countries". I start at 35% and can only change it once every 6 months for a net increase of 3.5%. Extrapolating forward (from a 1936 start date) it'll take till 1945 to be at 100%. How high do I need to be before I have some semblance of a foreign intelligence system? 70%? Was the United States that ignorant of foreign intelligence back in 1936 to not have any "spies"? All the other major players seem to have a better system and that just doesn't seem realistic or fair to me.

Oh, this is another annoying feature: I can decrease funding for intelligence all the way to 0 if I want, but can only increase it once per 6 months even if the decreases and increase happened while the game was paused. I should be able to increase all the way back up to the original level as long as the game is paused.

And why is it that I can see messages like "Italy has stolen plans from Greece"? I can see that if Greece caught Italy and they made it public then I should see it. But most cases of espionage are usually handled internally and never see the light of day. Countries don't air dirty laundry as it makes them look bad/unprepared.

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#4 Knan

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:49 PM

Being isolationistic had its drawbacks.

#5 FullAuto

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:53 PM

Seems more realistic to me, it takes time to set up intelligence networks, but you can pull the plug on them in seconds.

Quote

Instead of being unrealistic it's now an utter joke. Everyone can (and does) try to steal blueprints from me (playing as the US),

You're a world power, mate.  Given a choice, who would you steal blueprints from, the USA or Ethiopia?

Quote

And why is it that I can see messages like "Italy has stolen plans from Greece"? I can see that if Greece caught Italy and they made it public then I should see it. But most cases of espionage are usually handled internally and never see the light of day. Countries don't air dirty laundry as it makes them look bad/unprepared.

This sort of thing actually becomes public quite often.  Not that either side wants it to, but journalists poke their nose into things and oh, those pesky citizens and their freedom of speech.  Happens several times a year, usually.  Remember this?

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#6 Zombie

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 07:55 PM

View PostFullAuto, on 9th October 2009, 1:53pm, said:

Seems more realistic to me, it takes time to set up intelligence networks, but you can pull the plug on them in seconds.
Scenario - you call up the group leader who is trying to infiltrate France.
You: Yeah, I don't think we'll be requiring your services anymore, we are pulling the plug on the operation because it is getting too costly.
Group Leader: Really? We just got started over here and made some good progress already.
You: Sorry to say, yep. We don't have the money.
*call waiting beep*
You: Say, could you hold on for a second? I have a call on another line.
Group Leader: Sure.
*seconds later*

Real-World Ending
You: Still there?
Gruop Leader: Yes.
You: Good. Turns out we do have funding, so scratch that. Honest mistake.

Armageddon Ending
You: Still there?
Gruop Leader: *No answer*
You: Hello?
*dial tone*
You (to another person in the room): He hung up. Can't believe he hung up.

If I want to set up the intelligence network just seconds later (for whatever reason, mistake or otherwise), the game should let me. Sure, If I'd call up 6 months later and try to set it up, the game shouldn't. But not when I'm paused. That's dumb. (Just being brutally honest here). :oh:

View PostFullAuto, on 9th October 2009, 1:53pm, said:

You're a world power, mate.  Given a choice, who would you steal blueprints from, the USA or Ethiopia?
That's not the point. There are other world powers in 1936 and they can spy on me just fine. I only want the same options they have. ;) Given a choice where to acquire blueprints from, I pick the option where I stood less of a chance of blowing my cover and getting caught. That would probably mean a country with fewer resources to sink into security or counter-espionage. Blueprints are blueprints, you just have to know how to read them.

Found out it's not due to isolationism of the US either. When I started as Japan, the Soviet Union, Germany, UK, or Italy (the big perpetrators who were spying on me before) they didn't have the ability to spy on the US anymore. The game cheats, plain and simple. Sad. :) Very disappointed Paradox, you could have done a better job hiding this. Instead you chose to put a glass cover on your black-box game design.

View PostFullAuto, on 9th October 2009, 1:53pm, said:

This sort of thing actually becomes public quite often.  Not that either side wants it to, but journalists poke their nose into things and oh, those pesky citizens and their freedom of speech.  Happens several times a year, usually.  Remember this?
But it doesn't happen on the scale of HOI2: Armageddon. I get at least 10 messages a month in 1936 about all the spying going on. Certainly that never happened. I realize this is a game and I shouldn't be trying to compare this to real life (and I'm trying not to), but the game is blowing it out of proportion 100-fold. And I'm sure the Guangxi Clique didn't have a big enough network to run a Smear campaign or do Global manipulation in 1936 either. Yet in the game, everyone and your mothers uncle is spying. Well, except for the hu-man controlled players that is. :)

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#7 Kaije

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 05:17 AM

What exactly does provincial radar do? Does it increase air and naval detection in adjacent provinces and sea zones?

Same goes for torpedoes... Statistically they don't improve anything, or am I missing something?

Just curious, mostly. As far as gameplay goes, the actual functionality of these two things isn't very apparent.

#8 FullAuto

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 02:04 PM

The torpedo attachment for ships increases convoy raiding efficiency, IIRC.  Bit of an odd one.

The radar works oddly, as well.  It provides air coverage versus adjacent sea zones, but not adjacent provinces.  They don't detect naval units.  The radar basically means it's easier to find and fight enemy air units (without radar, your planes just cruise around their assigned area, if the enemy aircraft are in a province covered by radar, your planes will go straight to them).  There's a combat bonus given to your planes, too, albeit a small one.

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