A new XCom should be...


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#61 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 07:33 AM

In the original game, when the aliens start attacking your base, they keep coming until you let them in and defeat them in tactical combat. Once you do this, they have to find your base again.

But here's the thing - lots of different "groups" of aliens can find your base, and the more that do, the more attacks come in.

This would imply that there are different "factions" of aliens and they don't share all their knowledge with each other. It could be that this is done on a "per alien race" basis, though I suspect it's more of a "per alien base" thing.

But in terms of realism, race seems the way to go: Each is "competing" with all the others, and so if you take a base down, only that race knows about it (kinda like how not all humans know where X-COM bases are - it's not like the military comes to your aid when you need it). They're not going to alert the other aliens to their little problem, for fear of one of them taking instead of returning the lost outpost. Hence they may be somewhat lacking in terms of the resources required to immediately attempt to evict you.

Heh, I suppose I'm going off into dreamland with this next idea, but it seems to me it'd be pretty cool if you could capture an alien base without any of them knowing about it - that is to say, you could maintain a front that it was still under alien control, steal off their supply ships, and perhaps even get access to secret transmissions that wouldn't be picked up any other way.
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#62 SectoidEmperor

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:07 AM

View PostBomb Bloke, on 26th January 2010, 2:33am, said:

In the original game, when the aliens start attacking your base, they keep coming until you let them in and defeat them in tactical combat. Once you do this, they have to find your base again.

But here's the thing - lots of different "groups" of aliens can find your base, and the more that do, the more attacks come in.

This would imply that there are different "factions" of aliens and they don't share all their knowledge with each other. It could be that this is done on a "per alien race" basis, though I suspect it's more of a "per alien base" thing.

Probably just a game mechanic, but still an interesting thought.

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But in terms of realism, race seems the way to go: Each is "competing" with all the others, and so if you take a base down, only that race knows about it (kinda like how not all humans know where X-COM bases are - it's not like the military comes to your aid when you need it). They're not going to alert the other aliens to their little problem, for fear of one of them taking instead of returning the lost outpost. Hence they may be somewhat lacking in terms of the resources required to immediately attempt to evict you.

The thing with this is that it MAJORLY impacts the in-game lore. Before implementing something like that, there would have to be a bit of discussion on how the alien society actually works, and how the different races interact.

Hell, that's worth at least one thread of its own.

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Heh, I suppose I'm going off into dreamland with this next idea, but it seems to me it'd be pretty cool if you could capture an alien base without any of them knowing about it - that is to say, you could maintain a front that it was still under alien control, steal off their supply ships, and perhaps even get access to secret transmissions that wouldn't be picked up any other way.

SB1: This is Sectoid Base One! We are under attack, repeat, we are under attack!

CC: Cydonia Command here. Identify the nature of your attackers and the scope of the assault, and we'll have reinforcements on the way as soon as feasible.

SB1: It's...we can't...its X-co-....

CC: Sectoid Base 1? Sectoid Base 1, come in! Sectoid Base One?

SB1: *cough* Haha, hi there, glorious and all-destroying supreme commanders. This is...um...*what are they called again? Oh, right* the Sectoid base. Y'know, Sectoids. We're short and have big heads. How you doing over there, your evilness?

CC: ...

SB1: Anyway...uh...sorry to bother your vileness, but...uh...we need some more supplies. Like, if you could send us a few shipments of elerium, crewed by floaters or snakemen (but no chryssalids), it would make crushing the puny hu-mons much easier. You might as well spare the expense of arming them too; we have things under control pretty well here, there shouldn't be any danger.

CC: *nukes it from orbit*

#63 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:33 AM

View PostSectoidEmperor, on 26th January 2010, 8:07pm, said:

The thing with this is that it MAJORLY impacts the in-game lore. Before implementing something like that, there would have to be a bit of discussion on how the alien society actually works, and how the different races interact.
The lore, as far as the original game portrays it, is that each race is "deployed" by the "alien masters", that being the Ethereals who serve the motherbrain.

No further specifics are given, other then the Mutons being directly controlled by the Ethereals - without the mind control link, they're rigged to die on the spot. So in theory, if the Mutons have some information, the Ethereals know it as well.

But what we observe in-game is that each race sticks to it's own kind, with the exception of their favoured "terror" creatures which appear to be somewhat lacking in the brains department. Even after sacking a few alien bases, there's no visible reason why the races don't mingle - after all, their facilities are exactly the same, so there doesn't seem to be any technical reasoning behind it (any alien can survive in any alien base). You won't even see Supply Ship crews mis-matching with the bases they service.

I didn't realise people had other views on the subject, though I'd be interested to hear what they are. Political - or at least cultural - issues are the only reason I can come up with for this behaviour.  :D

(Heck, we even know it's not a game engine limitation, because the final mission of the game does pit you against multiple races at once).
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#64 Gimli

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:40 AM

The story and setting is one element of X-Com that has potential but is very underdeveloped.

#65 SectoidEmperor

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:57 AM

View PostBomb Bloke, on 26th January 2010, 4:33am, said:

(Heck, we even know it's not a game engine limitation, because the final mission of the game does pit you against multiple races at once).

You sure about that? The final level has terror units from several races, but I think the only actual race you fight is the Ethereals. There are sectoids on the Martian surface, but that's a different map.

Am I wrong about this? If not, it could very well be a game engine issue.

In any event, the lore and background of X-com, particularly the aliens, needs a LOT of fleshing out. To avoid derailing this thread, here's another one: http://www.strategyc...4235#entry94235

#66 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:07 PM

From the point of view of the battlescape engine, there's no real difference between a terror unit and a conventional one. The separation of races wasn't a technical limitation.
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#67 Bloodmoney

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:33 PM

SectoidEmperor, Cyberdisc's (surface) and Chryssalid's (underground) also.

I always find that UFO:EU shouldn't have any sequel, since after defeating the Aliens X-Com had access to such technology, that almost nothing could stop humanity. TFTD and Apoc devs did basically ignore this to make sequels...

#68 Space Voyager

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 09:30 PM

View PostBloodmoney, on 26th January 2010, 4:33pm, said:

I always find that UFO:EU shouldn't have any sequel, since after defeating the Aliens X-Com had access to such technology, that almost nothing could stop humanity. TFTD and Apoc devs did basically ignore this to make sequels...
Ah, there always is a bigger and worse villain. But yes, follow-ups should allow the use of formerly known techs while giving the enemy an even more powerful arsenal. Which is basically the same thing as not giving X-COM anything yet from the story point of view more clean.

#69 SectoidEmperor

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:06 AM

View PostSpace Voyager, on 26th January 2010, 4:30pm, said:

Ah, there always is a bigger and worse villain. But yes, follow-ups should allow the use of formerly known techs while giving the enemy an even more powerful arsenal. Which is basically the same thing as not giving X-COM anything yet from the story point of view more clean.

Goddamn you, Terror from the Deep. This is what you SHOULD have done. Goddamn you. :D

#70 AlanatXcomHQ

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 05:18 PM

Not to ruin anyone's bubble, but just to confirm to both Bloodmoney and Space Voyager that X-com Colonisation is NOT a sequel Chronologically speaking (ie not taking place AFTER any x-com game) but rather a chronological PREQUEL taking place some 65 million years BEFORE x-com 1 / UFO:EU

There was an interview about Colonisation that took place way back in August 2006 where this chronological date was stated.

On the notion on multiple alien races all competing with each other, this seems to spring to mind the large amount of "companies / groups" in X-com: Apoc that you could either please / displease or out and out trash them.

Now I am not one to suddenly suggest that you can pay off / buy / bribe a particular alien race from attacking you, simply on the notion that cause this game follows the formula that X-com 1 and 2 had, Colonisation would have the same sort of alien Hierarchy meaning the psychic overlords of the aliens make the point of buying an alien race out mute.
PLUS, X-com itself never ever negotiated with aliens in X-com 1 and 2 and Colonisation will more then likely follow the same route.
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