Monsters in Grumm mine, how to exterminate?

[Model76]

Hi,

 

I am new to this game, and only stumbled on it because of you guys.

A google search, to see if there might be a new(ish) UFO-style game out there, took me here, and then I saw this forum section.

 

I can't believe I have been missing out on this gem of a game for so long! Reminds me of the original Fallout games, which I loved to death.

 

My team, after a false start before patching to 1.12, consists of only 3 hired mercs: Cliff, Nails, and Bull.

Cliff is a great medic and soldier, Nails is very versatile, being great at repairs, explosives, and shooting, and Bull is cheap, strong, and can take some hits.

Then I have Ira, which I use mainly as field medic, since she is such a poor shot. She is improving, though.

And Dimitri the Forgetful, who is also OK with a rifle. He still needs a scope to be in class with the others, but I have one waiting at the airport.

My custom merc I have focused on leadership and marksmanship. If I could go back, I would have removed points from mechanical, explosives, and medical, and added to dexterity, agility, and wisdom. Oh well, you live and you learn, I guess..

 

Anyway, I have taken Drassen, Chitzena, Cambria, and by som stroke of luck/patience, Grumm mine and 1 more sector, which was enough to train militia there.

 

And now for the ugly part... Some big, ugly insects have started to come out of the mine to slaughter soldiers and civilians alike, and the workers don't dare going down there. No profits = no good, so down into the mine I went.

Alas, due to my inexperience with the game, I only cleared the top level (both sectors), since I didn't know there were more.

 

I left town to take care of Balime and Alma, and the insects started attacking again, which the militia was only barely able to handle. So back I went to train more fighting monkeys, and try to find a more permanent solution to the bug infestation.

This time in the mine, I went all the way down to the bottom, but didn't find any insects down there.. Instead I found a ton of human skeletons, and some alien egg-like thingies sitting in the ground.

I have tried shooting them, throwing grenades at them, bombing them, and even chopping away at them with a machete, but nothing seems to hurt them.

What am I supposed to do? Just leave them alone?? My thoughts are that they will hatch into more uglies, wrecking havoc on the militia and general population. And worst of all: Still no profits from Grumm. Arrgh, the pain!

[SoulBrotherKab]

Well, much like trying to kill an ant colony, you gotta take out the queen.

 

But what will help is if you find a dude named Gabby. Gabby only shows up in the sci fi game mode, and he's special. He makes this special bug goo that helps you avoid the bugs. For him to make the goo, you need bug parts. So it's a good idea you find dead bugs, or go down and fight in some limited engagements against some bugs to harvest their parts. What the goo does is make you "invisible" to the bugs. Because they can't see, only smell...this helps them not smell you. This is partly what makes them tough, because in the tunnels it's dark and you can't see as well.

 

Also, you'll want to use hollow point ammo. I think that does the best against the Crepitus. Because I don't believe they're armored, they're just tough (decent amount of HPs).

 

Also, when you take out the queen you might want burst capable weapons. Normally, I advise people not to use burst mode unless you're literally two feet from the enemy, but with the queen she's so big that you'll be hard pressed to completely miss her with a good burst from a AK or FN FAL.

 

Another note...don't use Ira for fighting unless you HAVE to. She sucks. Except for training militia. She's great at that, and she's free. So that means you can constantly train militia as long as you have the money to pay for it.

[Model76]

Thanks for the heads up on the hollow points! I was wondering about that.

This Gabby fellow is interesting, where can I find him?

 

I didn't find any queen, or other bugs for that matter, on the lower Grumm mine levels. Only the eggs (if that is indeed what they are). I just discovered that I can, in fact, destroy the things with explosives or grenades, but they have to be detonated right exactly next to them, unlike walls. It takes 1 stick of TNT, or 2 hand grenades.

Maybe I will find the queen in another mine.

 

Ira doesn't shoot that as much as she runs around, patching every ones wounds. Maybe I should think about upgrading? Hmm... Any suggestions for a good replacement?

 

Also, I don't have any AKs or FN FAL rifles, only Mini-14s, a single C-7, a G41, and a couple of M24s, which aren't used much due to lack of ammo.

[SoulBrotherKab]

Yeah, you're kinda early in the game. I'd suggest maybe taking over another mine to get some cash and then start buying some of the better weapons off the website. This is my personal preference, but eventually I like to standardize my weapons and have everyone carry 7.62mm NATO weapons (FN FAL for EVERYONE!). For secondary squads, 5.56mm NATO weapons works very well. There are very few Warsaw Pact weapons worth using, IMO. Though, stay away from the FAMAS...I don't know what it is, but the damn thing would constantly jam on me.

 

Anyway, Gabby...um, I think in either sectors H11 or I4. Oh, forgot to mention that some bug goo works well on body armor. Spray that crap on and it makes them stronger. Thought I'd only do it on Spectra armor...Spectra armor is the best type in the game and infinitely more worthy of the bug spray.

 

Here's my weapon list (from most wanted on down)

5.56mm Weapons:

FN Minimi (awesome weapon, but kinda heavy)

C-7

Steyr AUG

G41

 

7.62mm NATO:

HK 21E (like the FN Minimi, awesome but heavy...but the range and damage are insane)

M24 (should go to the guy with the highest APs and good Marksmanship skill

FN FAL (should go the guy with the best Marksmanship...but not the highest APs)

M-14/G3A3s...these are pretty much tied, both excellent weapons though

 

If you can gather some combination of these weapons, along with the associated ammo, you'll go very well. Couple of things though. Make sure to repair them when you have the chance...the ONLY problem with the Western weapons is that they tend to break down more than their Russian counterparts. Also, ammo. IMO, Armor Piercing ammo is probably what you'll use for like 90% of the game. Especially when the enemies start wearing body armor constantly. Hollow points do much more damage, but only to non armored targets...but after the first couple of towns, enemies without any armor are rare.

 

Here's my merc wishlist if you want...these guys tend to be in my mid game and stay for the entire time:

Shadow (he's a must-have, IMO. THEEE best merc. Comes with permanent 100% camo)

 

Magic (another good merc, used as the repairman/lockpicker/trap disarmer of the group

 

Gillit (I won't give it away, but he's not on the site, you'll find him in Arulco and he's damn expensive at $5,500 a day, but if you can afford it, totally worth it)

 

Scully (very good all-round merc)

 

Gus (tend to use him as my medic, mostly because I fight at night with Shadow and my custom stealth/night ops merc...meaning I don't get shot up much)

 

Iggy (another guy that's not on the site, but in country...at $1,800 a day, kinda expensive but pretty damn good for the price)

 

Edit: Forgot to mention about Ira...don't replace her and keep her alive at all costs. She'll be your primary militia trainer/part time medic. Don't use her in combat, keep her in safe sectors and only move her when she's needed to train militia somewhere else...and try to move her through safe sectors. She'll be find with a Colt Commando or an AK you find. If you want to train militia kinda fast in the early game, hire Hitman as Ira's number two. He makes a good teacher, and he's not half bad in a fight as well.

 

Those weapons you have right now are solid for how far you are into the game. Try to buy/find/steal any ammo for them. Sooner or later you'll go up against enemies with nothing but mid tier and some high tier weapons. They're tough to fight against.

[Model76]

Thanks for that!

 

About Bobby Ray's, he only has crap weapons for now, but it is slowly improving. Last time I checked, they even had some 7.62 NATO ammo, which is nice, though only a couple of clips.

I have yet to actually buy a gun from them, though, since the ones I find are far better or equal to their stock.

 

I get plenty of 5.56 rounds, which is what all my weapons use, except for the M24s, but still no APs for that caliber. Except if all non-HP 5.56 are AP? I have noticed that the number on the gun, indicating shots left, is red...

 

I went back in the mine, and now it is full of monsters, so maybe it was a bug? (pun!)

I have noticed quite a few of those, including one where the team never enters the map after leaving a sector. I had to ALT-TAB to the desktop and kill the program from the task manager to get out of that one...

Luckily, it is a habit of mine to save before leaving a sector.

 

Whoa, I just checked Bobby Ray's as I was writing this, and now they had 2 G41s, and 1 M24, and a whooping nine 7.62 clips! Not bad at all!

[SoulBrotherKab]

Yeah, depending on how you play the game, sometimes's Bobby Ray has better gear than what you're finding. Or at the very least, he'll have ammo for weapons you just found.

 

But yeah, there's only three types of ammo if I remember correctly. Blue = Hollow Point, Red = Armor Piercing, Gray = Regular.

 

As for the mine, I think it's because those eggs turned out bugs. I believe that the queen is usually in the mine that the outbreak started in and she's located further on down. There should be some holes in the ground that allows you do you further down the mine. Eventually it ends and there's the queen.

[Model76]

Yay! I did it!! The queen is dead! No, not that one, the bug queen.. The real monster still lives. Sorry.

 

It took a few tries, but in the end the team was successful, although more or less chewed to pieces.

 

Here is another reason to like Cliff: He was the only one who could kill the queen, and not take 1 point of damage. Why? He is so fast that the queen doesn't get interrupt as he steps out, fires a salvo or two, and steps back into hiding. A couple of clips of this, and bye bye bugs.

I tried it with 2 of the other soldiers, too, but that went sour quickly.

 

I got some Royal Jelly out of the deal, too. Now I only have to find some toast. Delicious!

[SoulBrotherKab]

A trick to fighting the queen is to hit the deck with your guys. I think the queen will miss you more often.

 

But was I right about the hollow points? I remembered that from when I played, but I wasn't 100% sure it was correct.

 

Now for you it's time to heal up and hit a few roaming enemy units or city sectors to rearm and then capture another mine and train some militia.

[Model76]

The only thing that is better than not being hit much is not being hit at all. (;

Using Cliff, and the Duck & Cover method, I didn't even get attacked, at all.

Dumb beetles didn't give their queen legs, and she was just too slow for formerly drunk Dr. Cliff.

 

You were (partly) right about the HPs. Some of the bugs had a little armor, but all in all, it was more effective.

 

I have sent the team on holiday at Drassen Airport, where a bunch of goodies were waiting for them.

Now the team is equipped with G41s, a M24, a C-7, and I was even able to procure 1 slightly used M-14 from Bobby Ray's,

Also, everyone now has sniper scopes, which should improve things quite a bit.

 

After this little adventure, Ira has become quite mediocre, and even manages to be slightly useful in combat. She is now up to 81 marksmanship! Not all bad.

 

While the team was in Drassesn, the queen launched a major attack on Grumm mine, consisting of 20 more or less heavily armed soldiers. Luckily I had 20 militia there, as well as Maddog, and together they were able to defend the place, although with heavy losses.

The good part is that Maddog could collect one FN FAL, and another C-7 from the bloody puddles.

 

The plan now is to airlift the team back to the mine to get the weapons and help train more militia.

Then march on to take care of Balime and Alma, which was what I was doing when the Bugs attacked.

[SoulBrotherKab]

Sounds like a solid plan. I'd also mention that the rods and springs you're probably finding are INFINITELY more important than scopes, IMO. You can combine those two items to make...you guessed it, a rod and spring. But when added to a weapon, it lowers the AP costs for firing them. Which is great for those high AP using 7.62NATO weapons.

 

IMO, it's important to find all of the rods and springs you can. They help a lot. Just know that once you add it to a weapon, it's there forever. It makes using the M-24s much more bearable...and depending on the merc, you can get several shots off a turn with it too.

 

Oh, BTW. If you're a gun whacko or something, I'd like to point out the 1.13 mod for JA2. It's a mod that literally adds dozens and dozens (probably close to 100) different guns, add ons, ammo types, etc.

 

Here's an example:

You can find a standard M-14. Fine marksman weapon by itself, but in the 1.13 mod you can find/buy parts and put them together with the M-14 to make the M-14 EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle). The EBR is a M-14 with a new body made of polymer plastics, adds a pistol grip, more accurate modern scope (it's essentially the M-14 you can use in Call of Duty 4's multiplayer). You can also find all of the stuff to make a M4 SOPMOD (Special Operations Modifications). Which means all of those sights, scopes, laser, grips, etc that makes the M4 a popular choice for special forces operators around the world.

 

Lastly, it also makes the weapons ranges and damage scales more realistic. Meaning sniper rifles are going always shoot further than assault rifles and generally to more damage...especially the Barret .50 cal.

[Model76]

Yeah, I had a spring rod and barrel extender attached to the first C-7 I found, but then the barrel extender fell of when I was fighting the bugs. I didn't put it back on because I think the range is good enough, and I mostly shoot when prone, so I just added a bipod instead.

 

I am saving the rest of the springs and rods for later, because I read somewhere that the supply is very limited.

 

The FN FAL... Single shot is good, and it is very fast, but the burst is rather pathetic, isn't it?

 

That 1.13 patch/mod is sounding more and more interesting, but I am playing through the vanilla first, since it was recommended in another thread on this forum. I am really starting to look forward to it, though!

I also like that the source code is available, so one could have a peak inside... Gotta love those developers.

[SoulBrotherKab]

Yeah, the 7.62NATO weapons burst rate suck. Because the mags for 7.62NATO only hold 20. But I've found that burst firing is pretty useless. I mean, most people in the game can't hit anything with it. IMO, a well placed shot to the head beats firing 100 rounds.

 

But if you want to burst, then find a character with the Automatic Weapons skill and give him a AK (5.45mm) or a good 5.56mm weapon and plenty of ammo. Because I believe if you do that math, bursting low damage weapons is equal to or greater than the damage of a high damage single shot. Besides, 5.56 ammo is all over the place towards mid game.

 

But I'm biased as hell when it comes to rates of fire. I'm of the mindset the US Marine Corps, every man a rifleman. They believe marksmanship should take preference over rate of fire. Firing a billion rounds at someone is great, but if you can't hit and kill the guy, what's the point?

[Knan]

But I'm biased as hell when it comes to rates of fire. I'm of the mindset the US Marine Corps, every man a rifleman. They believe marksmanship should take preference over rate of fire. Firing a billion rounds at someone is great, but if you can't hit and kill the guy, what's the point?

 

I'm of the mindset that a five-round-burst at close range always works, while a single shot to the head might not be enough if you're unlucky. So I actually like the Ingram.

[SoulBrotherKab]

I agree with that, but I have to point out that you said "close range." Obviously, if a guy is 15 or so feet away, blast him with 5 rounds. But the way I play, that usually doesn't happen to often. IMO, if the enemy is 15 feet away from me, then I screwed up.

 

I play it night time guerrilla war style. Meaning I when I make my IMP merc, his a dual skill guy of Night Ops and Stealth. I jack up everything except Mechanical, Medical, Explosives...those go to 0. I constantly put on my make up (camo). I move slowly and deliberately. I hire Shadow as soon as I can afford it and NEVER let him go. Night vision goggles for everyone at night, and shades during the day. Also, I like to put on the headphones...lets you hear better.

 

When I attack 90% of the time it's at night, and I generally use a tactic envisioned by the Soviet Union and perfected by the US military during Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom, split my team into two groups. Size of each group depends on the map and mercs, but are usually equal size. The tactic is the "hammer and anvil" tactic. One team sets up in a very defensible position (as best I can find without getting into a major firefight). They hunker down. The second team is usually made up of the quietest mofos I have (generally Shadow and IMP merc). The sneaky team will maraud the outer map and work their way in like a curly cue.

 

The goal is to try and trap the bad guys in between sneaky team (they act as the hammer) and the defensive team (the anvil). Sometimes you have to move up the anvil team because the bad guys only see the small hammer team and won't fall back and wait for more reinforcements. But a lot of the times, the AI knows it's screwed and falls back...accidentally running into the anvil part of my team.

 

While doing all of that, I ALWAYS keep my distance. Pick them off from afar and bleed them dry as they close on me...which usually has to be close because of the night time. But by that time, anyone fairly close to me is usually so close to death I can wait for him to bleed out or go unconscious.

 

Oh and generally I like to lay it as an L-shaped ambush. Helps keep your guys from each other.

 

That's how I roll. But you're right in that sometimes you just need a guy with firepower. So I generally keep a good machine gun around. Though it's gotta have decent range...which usually ends up being the HK 21E, RPK-74, or most likely the M249 (I don't remember the game's name for the 249 right now, but it generally serves as my SAW...plenty of ammo, good size mag, decent damage, excellent range, good rate of fire).

[FullAuto]

I don't remember the game's name for the 249 right now, but it generally serves as my SAW...plenty of ammo, good size mag, decent damage, excellent range, good rate of fire

 

Minimi, original name for the weapon the M249 is based on.

[SoulBrotherKab]

That's right, FN Minimi. Should've remembered that, it's a funny name.

[Model76]

I usually only fight at night if I am attacked, or accidentally stumble onto roaming squads.

 

My usual tactic is to run around the map crouched, using cover as much as possible, and then when I see an enemy, form a line of prone soldiers, and shoot the sucker in the head repeatedly.

 

Sometimes, as I walk along (or inside) a house, someone will hear an approaching enemy around the corner. In that situation, I will try to form a line as best I can, and wait for them. In that case, a good burst is very effective.

 

I will sometimes let Ira burst at medium range, when I am dealing with a group of enemies - not because I expect her to hit anything (although she occasionally does), but just to keep the bastards busy as the more able soldiers move to cover, or set up shots.

 

Also, when dealing with the crepitus in the mines, bursts were critical to the success of the team. It was very dark, and the bugs could really take a beating, so much of the fighting took place at very close range. The FN FAL would not have been a very good weapon down there, although it would have been a lot better than the mini-14s a couple of my guys were forced to settle with...

[SoulBrotherKab]

Yeah, the bugs are a special case. Most of the time I play without them...just seem like a needless hassle after having done it like 10 times. But yeah, you can't fight them in the same way that you fight humans. Mainly because they smell you, so my stealthiness doesn't work at all. 7.62NATO aren't the ideal choices because of the burst rate. Best load out to fight the bugs usually is a buncha FAMASes (eww, I hate them but I guess they're useful in this case), C-7s, and FN Minimis, plenty of ammo. A grenade or two per person, and maybe a LAW if you have one.

 

Shotguns...I forget what they do to the bugs. I think they do pretty well, but I haven't tried that in literally 10 years. Also, another reason I dislike burst is because if I'm that close for burst to be really effective, I might as well use shotguns. In some cases, shotguns are more preferable than bursting weapons. But only a modded a shotgun, you know...duck bills and whatnot. Mainly because they use WAY less ammo per kill than bursting, which if you're playing on a harder difficulty is better because ammo can be scarce until you capture a couple of mines and run into better enemy troops. All in all though, I generally sell my shotguns. Occasionally I'll give one to a very stealthy merc and let him loose with one or two other mercs with long guns as fire support. That can work really well against a large force because you can take out pockets of enemies here and there and not have to fight a giant gun battle. Again, all done at night.

[Model76]

I tried a single shotgun blast on a bug, and it didn't seem to damage the thing any more than a single round from a Mac-10.

I only fired 1 shot, though, so I might just have been incredibly unlucky, I dunno.

 

Now no one on my team uses shotguns anymore. They were pretty good in the beginning, but now I can't really find use for them, with their high demand for APs and lacking versatility.

[FullAuto]

The Crepitus seem to take little damage from projectiles, regardless of the weapon firing them, so you just need lots and lots of rounds, unfortunately. Shotguns work well against bloodcats, but not Crepitus. Stuff like the MAC-10, Minimi, FAMAS etc with good burst capability, and take lots of mags. I think HP rounds do a little more damage than FMJs, on average, but I haven't scientifically tested that.

[SoulBrotherKab]

That's right. Shotguns on the Bloodcats.

 

And yeah, HPs do more damage on the bugs than other rounds because I don't believe the bugs are armored. Just tough.

[Model76]

I think the ones that run in and attack you are slightly armored, because they have exoskeleton.

I believe it said "strong", which is not too bad.

 

The ones that can shoot (or spit or whatever) several times per round are not armored. Neither are the useless snail-things.