Another Attempt

[BentonGrey]

So, some time ago I posted on the old boards about a GI JOE mod I was undertaking. As it tends to do, life got in the way, and nothing came of the attempt, but in the intervening years I have learned a great deal about the work involved in putting together a mod. I am going to make another attempt, and although this community seems to be pretty quiet these days, I am putting out a call for help. I know that there was at least some discussion about modern weapons back then, and I'd like to know if any were ever modeled. If so, where might I find them. Are there any modders around who might be interested in taking on a new project for this game? I would especially need modelers and skinners. I realize that the chances of me finding a team are fairly slim, but I intend to at least try and put together a campaign, one way or the other.

[Zombie]

Welcome back BentonGrey, nice to see a familiar face around these parts!

 

Q: is this a S2 or a S3 mod?

 

Sadly, I just started playing Silent Storm so I'm probably no use as a modder (yet... in time, maybe). But we have been seeing some activity in this area lately, hopefully some of the old crew will stop in and lend a hand. (I should probably send out a few emails to see if they are interested, hehe).

 

As far as I know, nobody has created a modern weapons mod yet. It sounds like a very cool idea and also a lot of work. If there is one thing I learned about X-COM modding is that if you estimate a mod will take x days to finish, just double that and that will be closer to the final result. So it's a smart idea to seek help (especially in modeling and skinning) as those will take the most amount of time to complete. I'm sure you already know this though. There are a lot of weapons in Silent Storm.

 

- Zombie

[BentonGrey]

Thanks for the response Zombie. I have started messing around with the editor a bit, trying to get my sealegs as it were. I won't be able to really start on this until late summer most likely, but I think I will try and do a little in the meantime. Feel free to send out some emails! There is quite a lot that I can do, just in terms of setting up missions, renaming and rebalancing characters, but they will never visually be the JOEs or Cobra without some help.

 

Yeah, there are a LOT of weapons, which is why my initial thought was that Hired Guns: The Jagged Edge would be a much better game for the mod, but it lacks a map editor. I'm also hopeful that Jagged Alliance 3 will actually be released one day, but until then, Silent Storm is the best fit. It really does have tons of potential, and given enough support even the PK's could be turned into something useful. Steeler could, in theory, drive his tank, and Clutch could drive his Vamp, based on the PK, but that is definitely beyond little old me.0

[BentonGrey]

I have no clue if anyone is actually reading these forums, but on the off chance that someone is (other than Zombie, and I hope you see this too ), here is a quick update. I've been working on this a bit in the last few days, although I didn't think I was going to get to it for a few months. I suppose the idea just sorta' grabbed me. Anyway, I haven't made tons of progress, but I do have the JOEs about a 1/3 of the way done...well, in what I CAN do for them. That is, I am chosing models and heads that come as close as I can to the characters, since I don't have any real artistic skills. I am going to experiment with some simple color changes in Photoshop later on though. I'm getting ready to try and make some Cobra troopers, since all that should require is changing the renegade soldiers from gray to blue, which I might be able to handle. I'm also doing all the text editing necessary, changing names, bios, the rest. Once that's finished, I will have to actually edit stats, which will probably take the longest of any of these things. After that, I'm going to throw together a test mission (something along the lines of GI JOE issue #1) to see how everything handles. Then, it's on to the Cobras. If by some miracle I actually manage to finish this, I'd like to have campaigns for both the JOEs AND the Cobras.

 

:EDIT: Ohh, and I've got a quick question. Does anyone (if anybody is out there) know if there is a way to change a character's skin color in the editor.

[Zombie]

I have no clue if anyone is actually reading these forums, but on the off chance that someone is (other than Zombie, and I hope you see this too ), here is a quick update. I've been working on this a bit in the last few days, although I didn't think I was going to get to it for a few months. I suppose the idea just sorta' grabbed me. Anyway, I haven't made tons of progress, but I do have the JOEs about a 1/3 of the way done...well, in what I CAN do for them. That is, I am chosing models and heads that come as close as I can to the characters, since I don't have any real artistic skills. I am going to experiment with some simple color changes in Photoshop later on though. I'm getting ready to try and make some Cobra troopers, since all that should require is changing the renegade soldiers from gray to blue, which I might be able to handle. I'm also doing all the text editing necessary, changing names, bios, the rest. Once that's finished, I will have to actually edit stats, which will probably take the longest of any of these things. After that, I'm going to throw together a test mission (something along the lines of GI JOE issue #1) to see how everything handles. Then, it's on to the Cobras. If by some miracle I actually manage to finish this, I'd like to have campaigns for both the JOEs AND the Cobras.

Great stuff! Glad you are giving this a shot now instead of later. Keep us updated.

 

:EDIT: Ohh, and I've got a quick question. Does anyone (if anybody is out there) know if there is a way to change a character's skin color in the editor.

I'm not sure if it's possible. You could change the head of a character to look like someone else (for example, I changed an axis German soldier to use Nessie's head). But entire race & skin color? Dunno. Sorry.

 

- Zombie

[BentonGrey]

Thanks for the response and encouragement Zombie. You know, you might be able to help me just by being another set of eyes, if you are interested. When I get the JOEs and Cobras set up, I'll take some screen shots, and maybe link to pictures of the characters themselves. If you want, you could help me determine if there are any pieces that might work better than what I'm using. It'll be a while 'till I get there though.

 

Any luck with the emails?

[Zombie]

Thanks for the response and encouragement Zombie. You know, you might be able to help me just by being another set of eyes, if you are interested. When I get the JOEs and Cobras set up, I'll take some screen shots, and maybe link to pictures of the characters themselves. If you want, you could help me determine if there are any pieces that might work better than what I'm using. It'll be a while 'till I get there though.

Sure, I'll help as much as I'm able to. Just let me know what I can do and when.

 

Any luck with the emails?

I'm putting together a list of past big-shots in S2/S3. Not sure if I'll be able to send the emails out this next week though - I'm going to be really busy at work. The week after maybe (11, 12th of May).

 

- Zombie

[BentonGrey]

Awesome! Thanks for taking the effort to contact those guys. There isn't any hurry, it will be a while before I have anything to show, anyway.

[BentonGrey]

Alright, here is an update and an open letter to whoever might still be around who has some experience with modding:

 

I have finished the JOEs as far as I am able at the moment. All of the built in mercs' strings info has been modified to match the the JOE characters that are replacing them. I have also modified them visually, using the built in art assets as well as I can manage to approximate their looks. For some of them this is relatively successful, for others it is decidedly unsuccessful. To spitball it, I'd say that 85% of the JOEs could get by with minor to major skin modifications, but some (like Spirit, Hawk, and a few others) could really use some new meshes. I could do a very little bit with the skins myself (I could probably turn the Terror uniform blue for a Cobra Trooper), but I have hit a snag with the mmp2tga converter. It is as follows:

 

It is not working for me after all. If I enter the texture name 2542.mmp, then the command line tells me it is unable to open the file. If I rename the file into an mmp (as all the numbered files generated by the resextractor are just "file" designated), or if I just call the number itself without the .mmp suffix, the command line gets stuck in an endless loop telling me it is truncated. I've tried it with a dozen different textures, no luck on any of them. Did the resextractor spit out the right kinds of files? Am I doing something wrong here?

 

On the main mod front I am beginning to get some idea of how the map and scenario editing works, and I think I could probably put together at least a basic campaign given the time. However, I am completely and totally stuck at the moment. I have a game breaking bug that I can't seem to chase down. I am assuming that it involves my editing of the built-in Allied characters, since this hard freeze occurs just at the point where I should be able to examine their dossiers. I have modified their appearance as I stated, and their string entries, along with some of their stats. I assumed originally that this error was caused by the fact that I modified the characters' names as they appeared in the tree on the left, but I returned each of these to the original name, and I am still getting the error. I really need help on this most profoundly.

 

If anyone cares to share their wisdom regarding the creation of a campaign, please feel free. I need all the help I can get.

[daredevil]

Glad to see you revisit the GI Joe mod. I tried messing with the mod capabilities way back when, and it was just too hard to figure out. With that being said, I'm probably not a whole lot of help to your project. I seem to remember hitting a brick wall with trying to implement new TGAs for faces, clothes, etc. I eventually gave up and on hindsight realize, I don't have the time or patience essential to modding.

 

I just want to wish you luck on the project and offer my support (which is really just cheering from the sidelines). Sounds like you're making some good progress so far. I'm looking forward to seeing the Joes in action.

[BlunterII]

Hi, BentonGrey.

"G.I. Joe" theme, eh?... I am not sure I am familiar with that but I'd like to wish you good luck with your project.

 

I work primarily with Hammer and Sickle editor, which is a more advanced and easier to use version of Silent Storm editor. (some winter and desert textures were removed from the DB, and the mercenary acks are almost all missing, but there is enough new stuff to compensate for that)

 

Although, I don't think I'd want to work on S^3 or S^2 based mods but if it's the advice you need I might be of some help.

 

One important thing I learned after dealing with the editor for some time now is this - never delete or modify anything. Just add new things!

 

i.e. ...want to add a new wall texture?? all right... Listen up >>>

 

- Create a texture (32x64, 64x128, 128x256, etc.) in some paint shop type of application >>>

- Save it in Source folder (TGA, or PNG depending on what your editor accepts, upsidedown PNGs for me) >>>

- Create a new Item in Textures tab (right-click for menus), name it, for instance, "Castle_Brick_bottom1" >>>

- Import (called export in the editor)your new texture with, format - dxt1, address type - wrap specs. >>>

- Create a new Item in Textures tab, name it, for instance, "Castle_Brick_bottom1_bump", for your Texture to look 3D~ish when the light is on it (in game only, afaik) >>>

- Import the same texture (TGA, PNG, ..) but with different specs, type - Bump, format - 565, address type - wrap, mapping size - 20, bump gain - 2 (You might want to play around with those, but I found those to best suit my needs, just "export overwrite" them on subsequent importing)

- Create a new Item in Materials tab, name it, for example, "Castle_Brick_bottom". In address type put - wrap, in Texture ID click the button and find your "Castle_Brick_bottom1" texture, in Bump ID click the button and find your "Castle_Brick_bottom1_bump" texture

 

(why ....bottom1 ? Because, in order for your wall to look more natural you might want to add a new variant to your "Castle_Brick_bottom" material. Or maybe even several of them. For that you'd need to create the "Castle_Brick_bottom2" texture and "Castle_Brick_bottom2-bump" bump and basicall y do the same thing over again with the second version. I'd advise to modify the existing ...bottom1, somewhere in the middle of the Texture image, so that the alignment of the texture edges doesn't get messed up. Leave around 6 - 8 pixels deep untouched on all four sides of the ...bottom1 texture)

 

Now, this new material is available in the game. But to access it I always create one new wall in Construction Kit. I call it "Texture Wall". Don't use the existing walls, create a new one. Just look at the ones that are already in the Kit and create an exact copy.

 

Now, in Templates tab, create a new item, say 48x48, and let's call it "Wall Textures" for convinience.

In the Layers, in the lower left part of the main Editor window click the Walls layer (the square to the left of the word Walls), this will take you to the Construction Kit, Select your "Texture Wall" and Ctrl- left click it to place it on the template. (if the floor is off and you can't see it, use "-" "+" keys to switch between floors)

Left-click to select the wall, Double-click the ConstructionPartID, "FirstGeomDefMaterial0" and "FirstGeomDefMaterial1" are what you are looking for. They are the ones that carry the texture info for both side of any wall in the game

Change them to your newly created material or materials and reload the template. Now you can copy them with a dropper tool and paint them with a paint brush tool on to other regular walls.

It come in handy to have all the wall textures in the game on one template for applying wall textures to the new buildings you create later on.

________________________________________

 

For Humanoids - it will be new textures, new materials (body, face, legs), new models, new pers. Sometimes you'd want to create a new uniform. Occasionally one might need to add a seperate material with some specific insignia (it's under Orders)

 

For objects - textures, materials (intact, crash 1, 2 , etc), models (intact, crash 1, 2 , etc), containers (intact, crash 1, 2 , etc), ready to be used object.

 

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Faces, on the other hand, are exceptions, though. The GDP (life studio), uncolored manequin file is missing. I couldn't find it to attach to a newly created Head...

So the only way I could modify them was by importing new textures and swapping them with the existing ones. You know adding, lip stick, a bit of a blush to females, scars, stuble, beards (that don't look like untended bushes), changing eye color, whiteneing characters' teeth, etc.

 

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To make the texture modification process easier, copy the screen (Shift+print screen on my machine) with the texture you are interested in working with on the screen and paste it in your paint shop app. It already has the size and format you need, just crop it out of the image and it's ready to be altered in whatever way you wish...

 

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Avoid making testures too bright. They don't look good in the game... unless, of course you are trying to achieve a specific effect. As a rule of thumb - any texture you create or "borrow" from someone else needs a color saturation (- 30-50%) and lightness ( - 20%) makeover

 

________________________________________

 

Creating multiple variants of the same mission/ random encounter template is a ticket to not getting bored with your own mod. I have some maps that use hundreds of templates. I can never tell what it is I am going to face or find there. One time it is a crop field with a well and a pond (yes, there are water materials and sounds in H&S), next time it is a military installation with a brook, next time it's a pine forest (I removed the snow, now there are regular pines in my scenarios) with a bandit camp, with a palisade wall around it (I used pine stems, for the palisades, recolored them and put them together to form walls), next time I enter it's a village in the middle of a birch grove (I created a new tree, couldn't stand it, I love birches!)... and so on and so forth...

 

________________________________________

 

Another thing, in my experience - creating a scenario sometimes is a lengthy, tedious task. I hope you've got the patience for that. Don't take as a discouragement, just a warning of what's in store for you...

The pay off is great, of course - in terms of personal satisfaction.

 

________________________________________

 

Anyways, if you have any specific questions - go ahead, ask... I might be able to answer them...

Maybe even Komik or Novik will chyme in, if they are still around, or someone else who has editor experience.

 

________________________________________

 

Just my 2 cents... or was it a buck...

Oh, my! another long post by me...

 

Blunter

[BentonGrey]

Thanks for the well-wishes Daredevil!

 

Wow Blunter, thanks for that detailed and thorough response! There is some great information there. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all of that up for me. As far as the G.I. JOE theme goes, well, I'm a child of the 80's, so of course I was all about Ninja Turtles, Transformers, and G.I. JOE when I was a kid. I picked up the original Marvel comic run of the JOEs a couple years back and was amazed at just how good it was. The stories are written by a Vietnam vet who knows the kind of world and characters he is creating. It was a great book, filled with social commentary, compelling stories, interesting characters, and more adventure than you could shake a stick at. The cartoon was like the comics inbred idiot cousin.

 

Anyway, back to your kind response: I do have a few questions for you, if you don't mind.

 

First, I follow most of you instructions regarding textures, but you say: "To make the texture modification process easier, copy the screen (Shift+print screen on my machine) with the texture you are interested in working with on the screen and paste it in your paint shop app. It already has the size and format you need, just crop it out of the image and it's ready to be altered in whatever way you wish..." I've seen this referenced before around the boards, but where in the editor can I view the texture itself? I can find it applied to a model easily enough, but how do I view the actual 2D texture?

 

Second, and perhaps most important, you say that the H&S editor is better, hmm? I have been debating whether or not to pick H&S up. After all, it is a slightly more modern setting which means that it would have at least a few pieces of equipment that I wouldn't need to add myself eventually. What makes the editor better? Also, do you have a larger pool of characters to draw from than in S2?

 

You say that some desert and winter textures aren't available with it? Are there still some desert and winter textures included? There are several story arcs that take place in frozen or desert locations, although they are by far in the minority compared with urban or jungle locations. I suppose as long as there are some it will be okay. You've made me think even more about moving the project to H&S, and I'd just like to have a good idea about what I'm getting into.

 

Lastly, what is the best way to add/modify the mercs that make up the pool you draw your team from? I want to have a set of characters with the names and bios of the JOEs, but modifying the Pers entries in the S2 editor seems to have given me some pretty bad bugs. Should I just create new characters? If so, how do I ensure that they show up in preference to the built-ins?

 

Also, I have begun to get a pretty good idea of what would be involved to mod this game, and I'm no stranger to hard work and long projects. I've spent the last three years working on a MASSIVE mod of the DC Universe for a game called Freedom Force. You're not going to scare me off. :

 

 

I should have an updated release of that project done by the end of the summer or so, and I'm looking for the next project. The easiest thing would be to create a Transformers campaign for Freedom Force, but I am a bit hard headed, and I've wanted to do a G.I. JOE mod for years and years.

 

Thank you for your help Blunter!

[BlunterII]

Ah, Vietnam... Interesting.

I can find it applied to a model easily enough, but how do I view the actual 2D texture?

In the "Textures" tab

 

Second, and perhaps most important, you say that the H&S editor is better, hmm? I have been debating whether or not to pick H&S up. After all, it is a slightly more modern setting which means that it would have at least a few pieces of equipment that I wouldn't need to add myself eventually. I've been playing the demo, and it also seems like you don't have to create a personalized merc, but instead are given a cast of characters to use. That would be beneficial, since the story I want to tell has a very specific cast. Is that true? Also, do you have a larger pool of characters to draw from than in S2?

I'll try to list the major differences here:

- All the numerous resource tabs from S^2, S^3 are organized into one which speeds up the process of switching between them dramatically

- Most weapon statistics and some names have been changed. Some even claim that Novik & Co. (the creators of H&S) achieved optimum balance with that. Most rifles, for a example, have longer ranges and much higher damage and penetration values.

- New weapons include Saw-off rifles, Uzi

- No new character models

- By default, you can only create a male character

- To work around the hard coded limitations of the previous titles, Novik created a whole lot of external scripts that control Hide values, add time on the screen, the time affects the lighting effects (there are 4 settings with 24 different lighting effects (changing every hour, 1 per hour, each hour = 60 turns))

- Uniforms now have urban and rural area hide modifiers (shown in blue digits in the character attributes window)

- Abilities that increase shooting skill with rifles, for instance, also show in blue when a rifle is equipped

- The per level health gain constant is a much smaller value now, making characters less durable.

- All acks (acknowledgements) from the S^2, S^3 mercs are gone. Only Mitica, Holly, L.A. and Nessie remained untached. By "gone" I mean their Sound files were removed from the database. Their folders and trees are still there though. Kate, on the other hand, got a really good, nasty array of replies. Ouch!

- Many new acks, Bandits', Americans', Russians', Colonel, Mikhalich's, main character's, new mercs' (Larry, Zigfrid, Moshe, Sanders, Pavel, Fidel), etc.

- There is 1 global map and chapters. Chapters serve as encounters themselves (no regional maps anymore)

Makes it more localized.

- ...

 

You say that some desert and winter textures aren't available with it? Are there still some desert and winter textures included? There are several story arcs that take place in frozen or desert locations, although they are by far in the minority compared with urban or jungle locations. I suppose as long as there are some it will be okay. You also say that the terror art assets are pretty much non-existant. Is the terror soldier's head model still in this sequel? That is perfect for the basic Cobra troopers, and as I understand it, you can't copy or modify the models, so I wouldn't be able to just copy it from S2. I know that may seem like a rather silly question, but you've made me think even more about moving the project to H&S, and I'd just like to have a good idea about what I'm getting into.

Everything is still there. The item names, texture, material, model entries and trees are still there, intact. Just the textures are gone. I understand it was done to make the package lighter, since they didn't use most of those anyway in H&S. All you have to do is copy the ones you need from S^3 and import them, that's all.

 

Terror is there. Since Thor's Hammer was part of H&S plot, all but their desert gear remained untouched. To "resurrect" those guys all you need is to import their missing testures and they'll be as good as new.

 

Moving to H&S might be beneficial. Play through the H&S campaign, dowload Novik's editor first, look around and decide. Personally, I couldn't bring myself to go back to Sentinels editor regarless of its sentimental value .

 

Lastly, what is the best way to add/modify the mercs that make up the pool you draw your team from? I want to have a set of characters with the names and bios of the JOEs, but modifying the Pers entries in the S2 editor seems to have given me some pretty bad bugs. Should I just create new characters? If so, how do I ensure that they show up in preference to the built-ins?

 

Create new pers (in the pers tab). Just practice a bit. Pick a merc, say Abala and make an exact copy of him, Abala1. It'll take a lot of going back and forth, but you'll get a pretty good idea which tabs are involved and what needs to be modified in the future to achieve the results you need.

For example, Abala1 can get his complex head from someone else preferably with the same skin tone, say, Ahmad, or even change his model, uniform and his AckUnit to the one of a Bandit. Tada! Abala1 is a Bandit with Ahmad's face. In complex heads you can create your own, mess around with the meshes, adding moustache, beards, berets, etc. Especially if you modify the facial textures, depending on your artistic skills you can create a unique looking character, or a look alike of someone you know, or have a picture of...

 

Also, I have begun to get a pretty good idea of what would be involved to mod this game, and I'm no stranger to hard work and long projects. I've spent the last three years working on a MASSIVE mod of the DC Universe for a game called Freedom Force. You're not going to scare me off. :

That was not my goal .

 

 

I should have an updated release of that project done by the end of the summer or so, and I'm looking for the next project. The easiest thing would be to create a Transformers campaign for Freedom Force, but I am a bit hard headed, and I've wanted to do a G.I. JOE mod for years and years

Good luck!

 

 

Blunter

[BentonGrey]

Thanks Blunter, that was extremely informative! I think it may be worth while updating to H&S after-all. The sawed off rifles will serve as nice models for a shotgun, even if I have to make them fire slugs and not shot. It doesn't seem like it's lost to much. I'm not sure about all the rebalancing though, but since I haven't really played H&S, I can't really say. How easy is it to modify that stuff, though? At the very least I'd want to restore the vanilla hitpoint gains, as I like a more durable merc. I am dealing with action heroes, after all. It seems that I can find H&S for only around ten bucks...I think that's do-able. Ohh, I've heard mention of tanks. I assume they've been implemented using the code that was behind the PKs? How many different kinds of tanks are there? It would be pretty great if I could add the JOE vehicles as well as the JOEs themselves.

[BlunterII]

The sawed off rifles will serve as nice models for a shotgun, even if I have to make them fire slugs and not shot.

Their models seem to be too short for a shotgun.

 

How easy is it to modify that stuff, though?

Since the illusion of "variety" in Silent Storm is often achieved by modifying and applying textures to the same models.. it sounds rather easy to me. AI geometries and .mb files, on the other hand, I haven't messed with. I believe you'd need Maya to create new people and objects. (Nival released plugins for some ealier versions of Maya only. From 4.0 to 6.5, if I remember correctly)

 

At the very least I'd want to restore the vanilla hitpoint gains, as I like a more durable merc.

That can be achieved by altering mercs' base values and changing miscellaneous constants

 

Ohh, I've heard mention of tanks. I assume they've been implemented using the code that was behind the PKs? How many different kinds of tanks are there?

Tanks are just for show. From what I understand they are not hardcoded and thus require an insane amount of scripting to make them move an inch. There are 2 models. A finished one (the one that makes appearance in the game) is of T-34. And the other one is of a Tiger or a Panther. Not sure. I don't think they are related to PKs in any way though.

 

Blunter