ufo the two sides


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#1 ufonef

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 04:06 PM

Hello,
i'd like to interest you with my little project here : http://ufotts.ninex.info/
it's another remake, hopefully you'll like it.
cheers.

#2 Gimli

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:29 AM

That's quite nice, but I have to wonder... why are you copying the interface? I understand you want it to look as close as possible to the original, but I think you can improve the interface without losing anything. Obviously, it's ultimately your choice. :)

#3 ufonef

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 10:05 AM

Improve the look or improve the usability?
I played one of the other remakes, can't remember which one was it, but every button was re-arranged and placed somewhere else. I must say it annoyed me, as that remake didnt introduce much new functionality (at least at my first glance, as i didnt play it for too long). So it was a kind of 'look for a key you already know what should look like, but in a completly different place' thing. And sure, if the new interface would be better than why not, but since my game itself does not introduce too many new functions for the x-com player, i didnt find much to improve. Although there are a couple of little changes that make it less clickfest than before. For example Soldiers memorise last held weapons in each slot, so you dont have to re-equip them every time. If something was annoying in the original, im trying to make it better, but if i didnt find it annoying, i try to make it the same as it was.
Could you perhaps give an example of what you had in mind?

#4 Gimli

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 03:55 PM

Oooh, that won't be easy off the top of my head... haven't played in a while.

Can you reload during missions? It could come in handy, especially for testing purposes.

How about keyboard hotkeys? A for auto shot for example. E for the equipment screen and so on.

Unite the soldier equipment and stats screen. This works for the missions as well as the base.

The buy/sell and soldier equipment screens could also be fixed. I would suggest doing what Apocalypse did (horizontal scrollbar) and optionally a box where you could enter the exact number.
You could also unite the purchase and sell screens. It's easier when you don't have to switch from one to another.

OK, there's more I can think of, but instead I simply suggest you take a look at the interface in Apocalypse nad take hints from there. There are a LOT of improvements there.

#5 ufonef

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 06:21 PM

I must had been a really patient player it seemes. Very good suggestions. Also, it's been a while since i touched Apocalypse. Well, hotkeys are planned, that's for sure, as that did bother me. Joining equipment and stats screen sound really good, and i didnt think about it before, but now that i do it actually was bothering me when trying to equip weapons on proper soldiers for a given task. Thanks, that suggestion i'll implement for sure. As to the rest, i'll take a look.

#6 Gimli

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 06:43 PM

Yeah, I got used to them, too. But hotkeys alone are a huge leap compared to UFO.
I like your ideas, by the way.

What are you writing the code in? C++? Java? C#? Something else? :)

#7 ufonef

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 07:20 PM

C++ (and directx).

#8 Thunder_Gr

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 07:23 PM

I would like to see a way to change the arangement of the soldiers on the craft, as well. And more information regarding the soldier's encoumberance on the equipment screen.
That what I know, is that I know nothing. - Sokrates

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#9 ufonef

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 07:57 PM

Second thing sounds great, will do as you suggest. About the first one, although its also interesting, it would require quite a lot more coding. I'll add it to my list, but will leave it for the future. Anyways, i havent really done much thinking about the interface, except the basic stuff, so i'm happy to hear such good remarks.

#10 hsbckb

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 02:33 AM

View Postufonef, on 21st April 2009, 5:06pm, said:

Hello,
i'd like to interest you with my little project here : http://nefurii.my-place.us/
it's another remake, hopefully you'll like it.
cheers.

I like it and I will bookmark you page

#11 Gimli

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 07:53 AM

View Postufonef, on 22nd April 2009, 9:57pm, said:

Second thing sounds great, will do as you suggest. About the first one, although its also interesting, it would require quite a lot more coding. I'll add it to my list, but will leave it for the future. Anyways, i havent really done much thinking about the interface, except the basic stuff, so i'm happy to hear such good remarks.

Do you intend to do this alone or are you looking for help?

On a separate note, it may be a good idea to try and build the game in a way that will allow modding. I can't guess how much extra coding that will require, but it could pay off in the end.

#12 ufonef

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:27 AM

View PostGimli, on 23rd April 2009, 8:53am, said:

Do you intend to do this alone or are you looking for help?

On a separate note, it may be a good idea to try and build the game in a way that will allow modding. I can't guess how much extra coding that will require, but it could pay off in the end.

In terms of coding, i'm doing this alone. I will need some help with graphics later on, though (alien buildings in base view, air combat icons and animation. Not much work fortunetly).
Modding depends on scale. Real modding would require some additional scripting language, which is somewhat more code. However, personally, i never liked modes, so i'm not putting much effort into it. The  easily modable parts are currently all the graphics (open format bmp pictures), and terrain setup (open format text files). Item's stats, alien's stats and so forth are hardcoded. There is actually a second reason for that. This is intented to be multiplayer game primarly (singleplayer will, hopefully, be made, but mp is the priority). The more the game is moddable, the more mechanics i have to make to check if both players are using the same version, or, if one is not simply cheating. So, the less modable the game, the less i will have to worry about easy cheating, or even accidental changes.
EDIT: in screen's section, there is new equipment screen with your suggestions implemented.
http://nefurii.my-pl...o...1&Itemid=53
I'm sorry for the poor quality, but that hosting site is free, and therefore limits the bandwidth i can use, thus, i'm minimasing all the pictures as much as possible.

#13 hsbckb

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:48 AM

View Postufonef, on 23rd April 2009, 8:27am, said:

In terms of coding, i'm doing this alone. I will need some help with graphics later on, though (alien buildings in base view, air combat icons and animation. Not much work fortunetly).
Modding depends on scale. Real modding would require some additional scripting language, which is somewhat more code. However, personally, i never liked modes, so i'm not putting much effort into it. The  easily modable parts are currently all the graphics (open format bmp pictures), and terrain setup (open format text files). Item's stats, alien's stats and so forth are hardcoded. There is actually a second reason for that. This is intented to be multiplayer game primarly (singleplayer will, hopefully, be made, but mp is the priority). The more the game is moddable, the more mechanics i have to make to check if both players are using the same version, or, if one is not simply cheating. So, the less modable the game, the less i will have to worry about easy cheating, or even accidental changes.
EDIT: in screen's section, there is new equipment screen with your suggestions implemented.
http://nefurii.my-pl...o...1&Itemid=53
I'm sorry for the poor quality, but that hosting site is free, and therefore limits the bandwidth i can use, thus, i'm minimasing all the pictures as much as possible.


I am looking forward to see the alien's equipment screen. Thanks for your update.

#14 ufonef

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:51 AM

View Posthsbckb, on 23rd April 2009, 9:48am, said:

I am looking forward to see the alien's equipment screen. Thanks for your update.


Don't be dissapointed, but alien's will use the same screen. Only instead of human, you will see that alien (picture taken from ufopedia).

#15 Thunder_Gr

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:58 AM

The best modding fascilitation will be to provide the source code :).
That what I know, is that I know nothing. - Sokrates

I would like to state that my message does not violate any copyright laws.
However, every single word I have used is also used in all books that have ever
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#16 Gimli

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:17 PM

View Postufonef, on 23rd April 2009, 10:27am, said:

In terms of coding, i'm doing this alone. I will need some help with graphics later on, though (alien buildings in base view, air combat icons and animation. Not much work fortunetly).
Modding depends on scale. Real modding would require some additional scripting language, which is somewhat more code. However, personally, i never liked modes, so i'm not putting much effort into it. The  easily modable parts are currently all the graphics (open format bmp pictures), and terrain setup (open format text files). Item's stats, alien's stats and so forth are hardcoded. There is actually a second reason for that. This is intented to be multiplayer game primarly (singleplayer will, hopefully, be made, but mp is the priority). The more the game is moddable, the more mechanics i have to make to check if both players are using the same version, or, if one is not simply cheating. So, the less modable the game, the less i will have to worry about easy cheating, or even accidental changes.
EDIT: in screen's section, there is new equipment screen with your suggestions implemented.
http://nefurii.my-pl...o...1&Itemid=53
I'm sorry for the poor quality, but that hosting site is free, and therefore limits the bandwidth i can use, thus, i'm minimasing all the pictures as much as possible.

Too bad about the mods, but I can't say it's unexpected, given the amount of work. Reasonable decision. :)

As for the equipment screen, it looks excellent. Maybe you could also fit weapon stats somewhere. I suggest on the right side or bottom-right. It looks like there's enough space for that. Or you can have a floating window which appears when you hold the mouse over a piece of equipment.

One more thing I thought of. How about a TU display on the battlefield? For example, you select a soldier and point the box on the intended destination and you get the amount of TUs required to get there. As I recall, Apoc calculated up to 10 squares. It's up to you to decide how far you want to go, but I take it it's not exactly a heavy calculation compared to processing speed nowadays.
In fact, if you follow Apoc's idea, you could get rid of the stat section below the buttons and replace it with soldier faces for quick selection (you could have the names displayed when you mouse over). Each row would contain up to 7 faces (1 Skyranger).* The four stats would then be put where the arrow pointing on the soldier is now. A simple rectangle with 4 bars and optionally a number next to each one would do.

* Although, this would mean that for the Avenger, not all soldier faces would fit, so you'd have to use scrolling arrows for the other two rows.

Also, I'm taking the liberty of posting this over on the Steam forums as well as xcomufo.com, maybe someone will want to help out with the graphics.

Oh and, I take it the terrain is destructible?

#17 ufonef

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:33 PM

View PostGimli, on 23rd April 2009, 12:17pm, said:

As for the equipment screen, it looks excellent. Maybe you could also fit weapon stats somewhere. I suggest on the right side or bottom-right. It looks like there's enough space for that. Or you can have a floating window which appears when you hold the mouse over a piece of equipment.
Can be done, but this works good for games with huge ammounts of various weapons. Ufo weapons were somewhat self descriptory by name. You could easily guess that 'earth rifle' is more powerful than pistol, but less than laser...etc. So, again, going to the list 'for later'.

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One more thing I thought of. How about a TU display on the battlefield? For example, you select a soldier and point the box on the intended destination and you get the amount of TUs required to get there. As I recall, Apoc calculated up to 10 squares. It's up to you to decide how far you want to go, but I take it it's not exactly a heavy calculation compared to processing speed nowadays.
In fact, if you follow Apoc's idea, you could get rid of the stat section below the buttons and replace it with soldier faces for quick selection (you could have the names displayed when you mouse over). Each row would contain up to 7 faces (1 Skyranger).* The four stats would then be put where the arrow pointing on the soldier is now. A simple rectangle with 4 bars and optionally a number next to each one would do.

* Although, this would mean that for the Avenger, not all soldier faces would fit, so you'd have to use scrolling arrows for the other two rows.
I had a similar idea, but with accuracy (this was done in one other remake too). Since the actual hit accuracy was dependant on more factors, and the displayed number when picking attack mode was false. Well, i already done that actually. It's just not displayed in a user friendly way yet.

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Also, I'm taking the liberty of posting this over on the Steam forums as well as xcomufo.com, maybe someone will want to help out with the graphics.
Ok, but i posted this on xcomufo.com, so maybe skip that one, as that would double post it.

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Oh and, I take it the terrain is destructible?

Sure. Like on that youtube movie clip. Those green fences are destroyed with bullets. Terrain does not however follow any physics, like (i believe) apocalypse did. So if you demolish an entire level, upper levels will float in the air. It's quite much coding to make this more realistic.

#18 Gimli

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 02:07 PM

Yeah, that's what I meant. I realize what Apoc did is too much work, so I skipped it. This works just fine, too.

#19 ufonef

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:19 PM

I've added 'sack' button on soldier's stats screen when in base. Getting rid of soldiers you didnt like took some time always. This will actually save me some work, as I wont have to add it to the sell/sack list now.

#20 Gimli

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 07:11 PM

Yeah, it always got clogged up because of each soldier appearing there. On the other hand, this may confuse people a little, because you'd expect to sell them at the sell screen. You could always introduce tabs to the sell screen. So you could switch between soldiers and the rest. This wouldn't affect your current solution, and in fact you can keep both.




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