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Tech requirements


karadoc

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Does anyone happen to know the exact tech requirements for "The Alien Life Cycle" and "The Real Alien Threat"? I've been fiddling around with adding more requirements before getting the toxin guns. I haven't quite managed to get it to feel right yet... I might just end up making everything take longer to research, and leave it at that. But before I give up, I'd like to know the original requirements.
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It's been a while since I played Apoc, but I think this is how it goes:

 

Multiworm (Live and Autopsy) + Hyperworm (Live and Autopsy) + Chrysalis (Live and Autopsy) = The Alien Life Cycle

 

All live Aliens and autopsies (don't think the Queenspawn is needed here) = The Real Alien Threat

 

But you do need the Queenspawn (living and dead) plus the Toxin Type C in order to get the wonderful alien gas. ;)

 

- Zombie

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Haven't played Apocalypse in ages, but the alien life cycle is related to Multiworm and its various life stages. Corpses and the live specimens are usually recommended for it. Lately though I have been wondering if you can get away with it with just the corpses, or just the live specimens. The next time I'm able to get it up and running again (yet again - it seems every time I manage to get it running, something catastrophic happens to my computer shortly afterwards), I might just give this a test.

 

The Real Alien threat.... hmm, I forget the exact requirements, but I believe you need all the aliens necessary for Toxin-C and cap it off with the Micronoid aggregate. The micronoid is the keystone to this research item - as it were.

 

- NKF

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Cool. Thanks.

 

In my current mod I've changed it so that you need to research the autopsy of each alien before researching its live form; living aliens can be used for autopsies as well as corpses; to get the alien genetic structure you need to have researched a live brainsucker or anthropod or spitter (previously it required the autopsy of an egg or multiworm or hyperworm); to get toxin A (Biological Warfare) you need to have researched the genetic structure and a live egg. Everything else is the same, except that most techs take longer to research.

 

I don't know if these changes are good. A few more things need to be researched before getting toxin guns, and everything takes a bit longer. I don't know if it's a worth while change. (Toxin guns are significantly weaker in my mod anyway.)

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The guide I have says:

Alien Genetic Structure = Multiworm egg autopsy + Multiworm autopsy + Hyperworm autopsy

The Alien Life Cycle = Live Multiworm and autopsy + Live Hyperworm and autopsy + Live Multiworm and autopsy

The Real Alien Threat = All live and aliens and autopsies except Queenspawn and Overspawn.

 

I think in my first game I think went a long time without getting biowarfare because I did most other things first wanting information on each alien and not knowing there was a practical application after The Alien Genetic Structure. I know I delayed x-com ships for a long time because there were lots of weapons and equipment to get and again I didn't know what came after the three fruitless projects gotten of control, propultion and structure.

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In my current mod I've changed it so that you need to research the autopsy of each alien before researching its live form; living aliens can be used for autopsies as well as corpses;

I don't quite understand. Live aliens can already be used for both, because after the live research you get the corpse and can do the autopsy. Now you'd have to do the autopsy first before the live alien, but the live alien can be used for both. Are live aliens "used up" and killed like the normally are, because that could get annoying if you capture a live alien first and then have to kill it to do the autopsy before you could research the live version and would have to capture another. That's not usually a problem unless your dealing with aliens like the Megaspawn or Psimorph that take up a lot of space and are hard to get and might not be able to have a live and a dead one at the same time. Which could lead to a situation where you say "I'd better not waste the effort to capture this alive since I need a corpse first". That just seems backwards. Also it's not like the live form of an alien if somehow a more useful topic to research therefor making it something that should have more prerequisites. Autopsies actually seem to be more necessary so having to do an autopsy first seems like a needless complication.

I do think Brainsuckers and Anthropods should be required for alien genetic structurethough, because it specifically says in the descriptions of those research topics that they will be useful in understanding the alien genetic structure and biological warfare.

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I don't quite understand. Live aliens can already be used for both, because after the live research you get the corpse and can do the autopsy. Now you'd have to do the autopsy first before the live alien, but the live alien can be used for both. Are live aliens "used up" and killed like the normally are, because that could get annoying if you capture a live alien first and then have to kill it to do the autopsy before you could research the live version and would have to capture another. That's not usually a problem unless your dealing with aliens like the Megaspawn or Psimorph that take up a lot of space and are hard to get and might not be able to have a live and a dead one at the same time. Which could lead to a situation where you say "I'd better not waste the effort to capture this alive since I need a corpse first". That just seems backwards. Also it's not like the live form of an alien if somehow a more useful topic to research therefor making it something that should have more prerequisites. Autopsies actually seem to be more necessary so having to do an autopsy first seems like a needless complication.

I do think Brainsuckers and Anthropods should be required for alien genetic structurethough, because it specifically says in the descriptions of those research topics that they will be useful in understanding the alien genetic structure and biological warfare.

My reasoning for the autopsy being required before the live version was roughly that it would be useful for the XCOM researchers to see what's inside the alien so that when they research the live one they kind of know what to look for. They would better understand how to treat the live alien having see the autopsy, and since the research of the live alien will kill the alien they need as good an understanding as possible before doing it. *shrug* Ok. so maybe that's not good reasoning. The _real_ reason was just that I want more structure in the research tree. I feel that making one thing lead to another it gives a greater sense of progress... and also it makes it easier to up the requirements for other techs (making the live alien a requirement kind of automatically makes the autospy a requirement as well).

 

Researching the autospy will kill a live alien if you don't have a spare corpse as well, so you are right that if you have only a live alien you can not research both things (but you could in the unmodded version). In my playtesting that really hasn't been a problem. I always have plenty of corpses, and so I don't waste live aliens that I need on autospies. Also, I've found that my new system makes it easier for me to keep track of what I've researched already and which aliens I need to keep in containment. About psimorphs and megaspawns, In my play through I'd long finished researching all the smaller aliens before I first saw the big ones, so containment space isn't really a problem. Anyway, I don't think it's such a bad thing if I've made it a little bit harder to finish research on them. Making things harder is one of the main points for this mod.. but I don't want to make things more annoying. Actually, I've been tossing around the idea of shrinking the capacity of normal alien containment, and making the large alien containment buildable - kind of forcing players to use the large facility for psimorphs and megaspawns - but I suspect that might just be annoying rather than add value to the game...

 

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

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Also, I've found that my new system makes it easier for me to keep track of what I've researched already and which aliens I need to keep in containment.
Not to sound obnoxious but right clicking on an alien in containment will show it's research topic and that tells you which you've researched.
About psimorphs and megaspawns, In my play through I'd long finished researching all the smaller aliens before I first saw the big ones, so containment space isn't really a problem... Actually, I've been tossing around the idea of shrinking the capacity of normal alien containment, and making the large alien containment buildable - kind of forcing players to use the large facility for psimorphs and megaspawns - but I suspect that might just be annoying rather than add value to the game...

 

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

 

I just checked in game and the Megaspawn takes up 60% of containment capacity. So even if you have nothing else you still couldn't have a living and dead Megaspawn. So how are you not having trouble with containment?

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There is one potential problem with that when you get to the Queenspawn. There's only one of them in the entire game, and you have to capture it alive in order to get both the live entry and autopsy.

 

- NKF

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There is one potential problem with that when you get to the Queenspawn. There's only one of them in the entire game, and you have to capture it alive in order to get both the live entry and autopsy.

 

- NKF

Yes, the Queenspawn is an exception for that very reason.

 

As for containment space, when I did it I just researched each of the big aliens one at a time. It takes several trips, sure, but I don't think it's a big deal. Like I said, I think it's actually a good thing if it slows players down a bit. On the flip side though, it's pretty easy to get around that restriction by just building a second containment facility.

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