Alien Deployment substitutions


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#41 magic9mushroom

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 04:39 AM

View PostZombie, on 15th September 2009, 2:21pm, said:

Sure, send it my way again. ;)

Have done.

Quote

Must've been a glitch in craft.dat because I only got this by editing. I seem to recall doing this in Enemy Unknown and it crashed the game too, so it isn't restricted to just TFTD. :oh:

- Zombie

The Dreadnought certainly landed on that island without any editing from me. Probably the code doesn't count the islands as land for sub pathing purposes or some such. It was a tiny island.

And by talking about Enemy Unknown I assume you mean a UFO landed on water?

#42 Zombie

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 02:42 AM

View Postmagic9mushroom, on 14th September 2009, 11:39pm, said:

The Dreadnought certainly landed on that island without any editing from me. Probably the code doesn't count the islands as land for sub pathing purposes or some such. It was a tiny island.
Well, there are land/water issues like this in EU too. If you know where the Great Lakes are in the United States, you can actually build your base on Lake Michigan or Lake Superior sometimes. It's a little fickle, but it is allowed. I'm assuming that the borders between land and water aren't accurately defined in small areas like we are talking about. ;)

View Postmagic9mushroom, on 14th September 2009, 11:39pm, said:

And by talking about Enemy Unknown I assume you mean a UFO landed on water?
Yup, I illegally modified a landed UFO to be in an ocean by editing it's location reference in LOC.DAT. :oh:

Ok, I did a little testing on the T'leth missions. First stage you get Aquatoid Soldiers, Navigators and Commanders plus Hallucinoids for the terrorist so it's probably just a modified underwater Aquatoid mission. On the second stage the ordering is a little messed up but it appears to follow a mixed race #5 loadout. Ditto for the third stage. :)

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#43 magic9mushroom

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 10:48 AM

View PostZombie, on 16th September 2009, 12:42pm, said:

Well, there are land/water issues like this in EU too. If you know where the Great Lakes are in the United States, you can actually build your base on Lake Michigan or Lake Superior sometimes. It's a little fickle, but it is allowed. I'm assuming that the borders between land and water aren't accurately defined in small areas like we are talking about. ;)


Yup, I illegally modified a landed UFO to be in an ocean by editing it's location reference in LOC.DAT. :oh:

Ok, I did a little testing on the T'leth missions. First stage you get Aquatoid Soldiers, Navigators and Commanders plus Hallucinoids for the terrorist so it's probably just a modified underwater Aquatoid mission. On the second stage the ordering is a little messed up but it appears to follow a mixed race #5 loadout. Ditto for the third stage. :)

- Zombie

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you're probably wrong about the third stage. There's always exactly 1 Tentaculat there on Beginner. Which doesn't gel with the type 5 sea loadout (which has > 1) or the type 5 land loadout (because there aren't any Bio-Drones).

What there are are Lobstermen, Aquatoids, Deep Ones, Hallucinoids, a singular Tentaculat, and a singular Xarquid. I've played that mission too many times due to loving the ending and the annoying lack of saving in it.

#44 Zombie

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 01:05 PM

View Postmagic9mushroom, on 16th September 2009, 5:48am, said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you're probably wrong about the third stage. There's always exactly 1 Tentaculat there on Beginner. Which doesn't gel with the type 5 sea loadout (which has > 1) or the type 5 land loadout (because there aren't any Bio-Drones).

What there are are Lobstermen, Aquatoids, Deep Ones, Hallucinoids, a singular Tentaculat, and a singular Xarquid. I've played that mission too many times due to loving the ending and the annoying lack of saving in it.
Just because the quantity or ordering of each rank isn't a direct duplicate of another mission type, it doesn't mean the race is wrong. That's like saying a landed Aquatoid Heavy Cruiser and a landed Aquatoid Hunter have different races just because the quantity of each rank doesn't match.

In the case of T'leth, the ordering of ranks, the quantity of each and the types of ranks available is different from any other mission, but it is still race type 5 underwater. (The only rank which is missing is a medic which translates to Tentaculat "Terrorists". I suspect if I edit the executable to allow medics on this mission, the respective substitution rank will be identical).

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#45 magic9mushroom

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 03:24 PM

View PostZombie, on 16th September 2009, 11:05pm, said:

Just because the quantity or ordering of each rank isn't a direct duplicate of another mission type, it doesn't mean the race is wrong. That's like saying a landed Aquatoid Heavy Cruiser and a landed Aquatoid Hunter have different races just because the quantity of each rank doesn't match.

In the case of T'leth, the ordering of ranks, the quantity of each and the types of ranks available is different from any other mission, but it is still race type 5 underwater. (The only rank which is missing is a medic which translates to Tentaculat "Terrorists". I suspect if I edit the executable to allow medics on this mission, the respective substitution rank will be identical).

- Zombie

Ah, I see.

Still very odd that there's more Commanders than Terrorists...

#46 Veki

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 08:41 PM

magic9mushroom said:

If so, what of the reports of Xarquids on Mixed Crew terror missions?

Zombie said:

Have no idea how Xarquids could even show up on land to be honest. I'm using the Collector's Edition for these tests btw, so maybe in some Dos versions the Xarquid was accidentally used as a missing rank replacement. That's my guess, though I haven't run 1000 terror missions with each terror site type to make that kind of sweeping judgment. :oh:
I am doing a port terror mission right now and guess who did I encounted? That's right : a lone Xarquid.
The odd thing is there are no Calcinites (mixed race - Aquatoid & Tasoth).
I'm playing CE edition of TFTD and using XCOM CE Bugfix loader. Playing on superhuman. If someone is interested, savegames are available (before and in the mission).

#47 Zombie

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 08:59 PM

Heck yeah, I'm interested. I'll send you my email address now. ;)

View Postmagic9mushroom, on 16th September 2009, 10:24am, said:

Still very odd that there's more Commanders than Terrorists...
Not really. In Enemy Unknown it's the same kind of thing in Cydonia. :oh:

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#48 Zombie

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 05:07 AM

Hi Veki, I took a look at the saves you sent to me. In both tactical saves a Xarquid "Terrorist" is substituted for the Navigator rank (usually this is a Calcinite "Terrorist" on a mixed race type 4, hence why no Calcinites). There is something really odd though. Normally on Superhuman you would see between 3-5 of terrorist type 1 and then 3-5 of terrorist type 2. (For example, 4 Triscenes and then 4 Bio-Drones). In your saved games, it shows 4 Triscenes, 1 Bio-Drone, 1 Triscene and finally 2 Bio-Drones. Something is screwing with the last terrorist type because it should only be Bio-Drones. There also looks to be a lot of garbage data in unitref so I can't put a whole lot of faith into this result because it is tainted with a previous save. This may be a case of corruption of some sort.

Your Geoscape save didn't help me much. I need a save with a terror site that is already formed and present on the map and then another save when you land at the beginning of a mission. That may help to shed more light on the subject. As it stands, when I loaded your geo save and landed at a port attack I get a clean untref file and the proper substitutions (no Xarquid, only a Calcinite).

Just a wild guess that the bugfix loader is to blame here (memory leak of somesort). I don't use it and haven't seen odd substitutions like this. It shouldn't play a role though, that's what baffles me. Are you using anything else? Any utilities, editors, mods etc? If not and if you are using Windows XP, use your bugfix loader to try to find a terror mission again, then save the game. Now go to the mission and verify there is a Xarquid present. Now right click on your desktop to bring up the Display Properties box, then go Settings --> Advanced --> Troubleshoot and move the Hardware Acceleration slider all the way to None. This will disable DirectDraw manually. Instead of using the loader to run the game, just double click on Terror From The Deep.exe. The game should run. Now load up the geoscape save with the terror site on the map, land at the site and check if there is a Xarquid present. This should be a good test to see whether the loader is playing a role somehow. If you are using Vista, then let me know and I'll try this on my rig. If worse comes to worse and I can't reproduce it, I may need to ask you to zip up your executable. That's a last resort though. :oh:

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#49 Veki

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 06:09 AM

Zombie said:

Hi Veki, I took a look at the saves you sent to me. In both tactical saves a Xarquid "Terrorist" is substituted for the Navigator rank (usually this is a Calcinite "Terrorist" on a mixed race type 4, hence why no Calcinites). There is something really odd though. Normally on Superhuman you would see between 3-5 of terrorist type 1 and then 3-5 of terrorist type 2. (For example, 4 Triscenes and then 4 Bio-Drones). In your saved games, it shows 4 Triscenes, 1 Bio-Drone, 1 Triscene and finally 2 Bio-Drones. Something is screwing with the last terrorist type because it should only be Bio-Drones. There also looks to be a lot of garbage data in unitref so I can't put a whole lot of faith into this result because it is tainted with a previous save. This may be a case of corruption of some sort.
I overwrite my save games. Could that cause the corruption of unitref.dat file?
And Triscenes? Don't remembet I saw them on the map.

Zombie said:

Your Geoscape save didn't help me much. I need a save with a terror site that is already formed and present on the map and then another save when you land at the beginning of a mission. That may help to shed more light on the subject. As it stands, when I loaded your geo save and landed at a port attack I get a clean untref file and the proper substitutions (no Xarquid, only a Calcinite).
If I have a save with the terror mission formed I'll send it to you.

Zombie said:

Just a wild guess that the bugfix loader is to blame here (memory leak of somesort). I don't use it and haven't seen odd substitutions like this. It shouldn't play a role though, that's what baffles me. Are you using anything else? Any utilities, editors, mods etc? If not and if you are using Windows XP, use your bugfix loader to try to find a terror mission again, then save the game. Now go to the mission and verify there is a Xarquid present. Now right click on your desktop to bring up the Display Properties box, then go Settings --> Advanced --> Troubleshoot and move the Hardware Acceleration slider all the way to None. This will disable DirectDraw manually. Instead of using the loader to run the game, just double click on Terror From The Deep.exe. The game should run. Now load up the geoscape save with the terror site on the map, land at the site and check if there is a Xarquid present. This should be a good test to see whether the loader is playing a role somehow. If you are using Vista, then let me know and I'll try this on my rig. If worse comes to worse and I can't reproduce it, I may need to ask you to zip up your executable. That's a last resort though. ;)
I only use that loader, no other utilities or patches. I'm lazy to turn off and then back on HW acceleration every time when I want to play. :oh:

Will try without the loader when I get home today.

Thank you very much for your help. :)

#50 Zombie

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 03:50 PM

View PostVeki, on 18th September 2009, 1:09am, said:

I overwrite my save games. Could that cause the corruption of unitref.dat file?

And Triscenes? Don't remember I saw them on the map.
Aye, overwriting tactical saves may be the cause as well. I'd still like to rule out that the bug fix loader is the problem because then the only answer is overwriting. ;)

Triscenes were in the unitref file but not on the map, correct. Funny thing was that all the units listed had their "in-play" flags set to true. It's possible that Triscenes just weren't able to spawn on the map for some reason. :oh:

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#51 Zombie

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 02:47 AM

Thanks for the saved game Veki, that's exactly what I was looking for (terror mission on the map with Triton en route). :)

I let the Triton land, then immediately saved the game into a fresh slot. When I looked at the aquanauts in the mission though, they were not up to the task of testing so I went back and upped their stats and edited craft.dat to give them some MC Disruptors. Then I cleaned out the save slot, reloaded the game, waited for the Triton to land and saved again in a fresh slot. Much better. :)

Here's a pic of unitref.dat in MS-Edit:
Unitref_with_Xarquid.png
It's a clean save as you can see, and yep, there is a naturally occurring Xarquid on the map. Take a gander at the terrorist listing though, it's pretty messed up. Since this happened in my game without using a loader and a clean save, I think it's safe to eliminate the loader or overwriting which causes these problems. My only guess right now is that the skill level (Superhuman) causes the messed up ordering and Xarquid substitution, because on Beginner I never saw this. ;) Oh, and by the way, there are Triscenes on the map. Some of them are spawned in incorrect locations too leading to them being stuck and unable to move. :oh:

Will continue to research this as time permits. (Maybe this weekend). We'll get to the bottom of this yet folks!  :)

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#52 magic9mushroom

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 03:43 AM

Regarding Lobster Men: in addition to the Medic -> Technician replacement, I believe there's also a swap between Technicians and Squad Leaders.

I say this because Lobster Man Escorts and Cruisers have Technicians (but no Squad Leaders or Medics, which establishes Squad Leader -> Technician and Medic -> Technician or Soldier; the high number of Technicians on Lobbie missions in general suggests it's the former) but Lobster Man Squad Leaders do exist on bigger subs like the Fleet Supply Cruiser (which clearly have to be replacing another rank; the only ones available are Technician and Navigator and my guess is Technician since there are several of them on Superhuman and Lobster Man Navigators also show up).




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