Alien Deployment substitutions


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#1 Zombie

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 05:05 AM

Right, so as we all know most of the races in TFTD don't have a full compliment of all the possible ranks. The only species which have all the ranks represented is the Aquatoids. But what happens when a rank is supposed to show up but can't due to the missing rank in the alien class. As we found out for EU in the Alien Deployment thread, Mutons and Snakemen substitute soldiers for the missing ranks and Ethereals substitute Leaders. I figured it would be interesting to do this for TFTD.

So what I found out was this: Lobstermen substitute a Technician for the missing Medic rank. Tasoths substitute Squad Leaders for Technicians, Navigators and Commanders and I think they substitute a Soldier for a medic. (Needs a little more research). As for Gillmen, they substitute a Squad Leader for the Medic. Not sure about what happens with a Gillman "Navigator" yet, it may get replaced with a Squad Leader as well. Getting some of these ships to show up is next to impossible so this is going to take a little while to verify everything. :) :D

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#2 NKF

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 12:05 PM

You could forcibly change the race flag of any USOs/event that pops up to save time.

Have you got any findings for the colonies or artefact sites?

- NKF
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#3 Zombie

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 03:49 PM

View PostNKF, on 29th September 2007, 7:05am, said:

You could forcibly change the race flag of any USOs/event that pops up to save time.

Have you got any findings for the colonies or artefact sites?

- NKF
Thanks, I'll do that. :)

God only knows I visited enough artefact sites just to get to the ships. (Or colonies for that matter). Problem is that the artefact sites are usually mixed with Tasoths and Aquatoids (at least for the artefact sites I visited) with some terrorists thrown in for good measure so I'm not sure what is being substituted yet. I believe that the Aquatoids are replacements for the higher ranking Tasoths. Haven't looked at the rank breakdown or a colony too close yet, but I'll do that today.  :D

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#4 Tifi

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 08:23 PM

If it helps any, I've *just* done an Artifact Site and relay the following opposition:

Tasoth - Both Soldier & Squad Leader (12 on each level)
Aquatoid - Squad Leader only (2 on the top level, 3 underground)
Tentaculat Terrorist (6 on each level)
Hallucinoid Terrorist (2 on the top, 3 underground)

The number will probably *not* be 100% exact as I was just counting whatever I came accross with a Reader (or just looking for the more 'unique' adversaries :D )

May be of use as a baseline?

#5 Zombie

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 08:59 PM

View PostTifi, on 29th September 2007, 3:23pm, said:

If it helps any, I've *just* done an Artifact Site and relay the following opposition:

Tasoth - Both Soldier & Squad Leader (12 on each level)
Aquatoid - Squad Leader only (2 on the top level, 3 underground)
Tentaculat Terrorist (6 on each level)
Hallucinoid Terrorist (2 on the top, 3 underground)

The number will probably *not* be 100% exact as I was just counting whatever I came accross with a Reader (or just looking for the more 'unique' adversaries :D )

May be of use as a baseline?
Possibly. Were you on beginner skill level? That's what level I use for testing. In the OSG for TFTD by Dave Ellis, it has the alien loadouts on pg 301 but it doesn't explicitly list the rank breakdown for artefact sites. Looking at your numbers, it can't be lumped in the Terror Site category. But it does match the Alien Colonies/Synomium Sites. On beginner there are 7-12 soldiers, 3-5 squad leaders, 2-3 techs, 2-3 medics, 2-3 navigators, 1-2 commanders and 3-5 terror units. I'll bet the game is substituting the Aquatoids for one of the ranks (probably techs) and Tentaculats for the other missing ranks. Obviously the Hallucinoids are the same.

--------------------

Seems as though we haven't found the race flag for the USO's yet. Not to worry though, I fooled around with that file this morning and found it in EU's craft.dat. Now to apply it to TFTD's craft.dat which is longer and the structure doesn't match. :)

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#6 Tifi

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 01:08 PM

Skil Level = Veteran

This would probably account for the inflated Terrorist count.
Seems I got a small draw for the soldiers though :)
(Even if one of them shot my Displacer up the back end and turned it to goo :D )

#7 Zombie

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 01:34 PM

One of the things which I noticed while playing the other day was aliens toting a DPL on a Fleet Supply Cruiser. Well, I didn't notice it until the alien incinerated a few of my men. So I looked at the alien loadouts in the executable and yes indeed, aliens carry DPL's on the Fleet Supply Cruiser. Just another reason why TFTD is harder then EU.  :D

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#8 Tifi

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 01:44 PM

You can get DPLs from hunter subs as well iirc.
Not sure about the heavy cruisers though, never seem to see them at all :)

'Medium' subs are lovely targets - lots of toys and not too many angry things :D

#9 Zombie

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 02:14 PM

View PostTifi, on 30th September 2007, 8:44am, said:

You can get DPLs from hunter subs as well iirc.
Not sure about the heavy cruisers though, never seem to see them at all :)
Right you are. Hunters have DPL's too according to my notes on the executable. Hmmm, I don't think I even saw a Hunter or a Heavy Cruiser yet. Must be just as rare as the Abductor and Harvester in EU.  :D

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#10 Zombie

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 01:22 AM

Well, I fooled around with TFTD's craft.dat and loc.dat today to force a Dreadnought to land. It just so happened to be a Gill Man - the race I was looking for. Unfortunately, there are so many aliens present on this type of ship which makes it next to impossible to determine what rank is substituted for the Medics and Technicians. Also I didn't know what the rank ordering was in unitref.dat. What I ended up doing was editing the craft to hold Aquatoids (the only race with all ranks represented) and then slowly removed the ranks in the executable until I had the ordering figured out. After that, I edited the craft properties to hold Gill Men again and then added a Navigator and finally a Medic.

Here's the results. Gill Men substitute Squad Leaders for the Medics and Technicians for the Navigators. Hurray, one down two to go! Will work on the Tasoths and Lobstermen tonight. :)

Edit: Hmmm, that was easy. Lobstermen substitute Technicians for Medics. As for the Tasoths, they substitute Squad Leaders for Technicians, Navigators and Commanders; while Soldiers are substituted for the Medics. I guess it's on to the Terror/Synomium/Colonies now. At least things should go quicker due to an understanding of the substitution order and game files. :D

- Zombie

Edited by Zombie, 01 October 2007 - 04:23 AM.

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#11 Zombie

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 04:07 AM

Initial results indicate that the game substitutes Aquatoid Soldiers for the Tasoth Technicians and Aquatoid Squad Leaders for the Tasoth Medics in an Alien Colony. It seems as though the missing Navigators and Commanders substitute Hallucinoids. I'll have to do a little editing in the executable to verify this completely but this is what it looks like so far. :D

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#12 Zombie

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 01:16 AM

Ok folks, I just confirmed the Alien Colony substitutions in my last post by directly editing the executable. According to the OSG, Synomium sites should have the same loadout as a colony, and the terror sites follow the Battleship loadouts. :)

While I was at it, I compared the loadout numbers in the executable tho those in the OSG. The OSG is wrong in a couple of areas. First, there is always 1 navigator (if the race supports that rank) on a Battleship. Also, it list the number of terror units at 3 for beginner and 7 on superhuman with a randomizer of 4. According to the executable it is 2 for beginner and 6 on superhuman with a randomizer of 4 (technically the terror unit class is broken apart into 2 separate entries of 1,3,2 for different species of units, but I think if one species is missing due to land/water restrictions all of the units are the same). Also, on the Dreadnought the randomizer for the number of extra commanders to spawn is 0, not 1 as is found in the OSG. At least, this is true for the CE executable. I'll need to check this on my DOS version to see if there is a difference.  :D

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#13 BladeFireLight

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:43 PM

I dont supose you have a site that lists all the offsets in the exe your messing with?

-Blade FireLight
QUOTE
Combat is very simple, there is a first place and second place, second place is laying face down in the mud, sometimes, so is first place.

#14 Zombie

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:51 PM

Nope, not a site. I have an Excel spreadsheet with a detailed breakdown of everything which is known in the Enemy Unknown CE executable (which is quite a bit), and use that for finding the similar offsets in TFTD. I might have the beginnings of the TFTD CE executable map in an Excel spreadsheet somewhere with alien loadouts and some other info. If you want it, let me know. :oh:

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#15 BladeFireLight

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 01:02 AM

Yes I would.  I don't suppose you have any offsets from the dos version to?
QUOTE
Combat is very simple, there is a first place and second place, second place is laying face down in the mud, sometimes, so is first place.

#16 Zombie

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 08:51 PM

No, but I have the DOS version of TFTD so getting those offsets isn't really that difficult. Let me work on this today and I'll send it your way when finished. :oh:

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#17 Zombie

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 03:44 AM

Hmmm, I guess I never got around to working on the substitutions in a terror mission. No time like the present then. :)

Just so happens I was visiting a Shipping Lane terror mission today and needed to check unitref.dat to see how many aliens were left. So this is what I found:

Tasoth Soldiers and Squad Leaders spawn in the normal way. Instead of a Technician, the game substitutes an Aquatoid Soldier, instead of Medics it substitutes Aquatoid Squad Leaders, and instead of the Navigator it substitutes a Calcinite. Terror Unit #1 is Triscenes while Terror Unit #2 is Bio-Drones. I checked this on a number of terror missions and it seems to hold. Cross another one off the list then. ;)

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#18 magic9mushroom

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 12:19 PM

View PostZombie, on 9th September 2009, 1:44pm, said:

Hmmm, I guess I never got around to working on the substitutions in a terror mission. No time like the present then. :)

Just so happens I was visiting a Shipping Lane terror mission today and needed to check unitref.dat to see how many aliens were left. So this is what I found:

Tasoth Soldiers and Squad Leaders spawn in the normal way. Instead of a Technician, the game substitutes an Aquatoid Soldier, instead of Medics it substitutes Aquatoid Squad Leaders, and instead of the Navigator it substitutes a Calcinite. Terror Unit #1 is Triscenes while Terror Unit #2 is Bio-Drones. I checked this on a number of terror missions and it seems to hold. Cross another one off the list then. ;)

- Zombie

Is this Mixed Crew terror sites?

Because if so, what happened to the Deep Ones and Xarquids?

What about Mixed Crew Subs?

#19 Zombie

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 02:56 PM

View Postmagic9mushroom, on 9th September 2009, 7:19am, said:

Is this Mixed Crew terror sites?

Because if so, what happened to the Deep Ones and Xarquids?
I'm assuming it wasn't a mixed crew because this mission happened only 2-3 months into the game. And unfortunately, my Transmission Resolver wasn't able to detect the USO before the site was created. I may have to take a peek in Craft.dat for the race. Just to reiterate, this test was only for a Shipping Lane mission. I didn't try a Port/Island Terror site yet which may or may not be different. ;)

View Postmagic9mushroom, on 9th September 2009, 7:19am, said:

What about Mixed Crew Subs?
Again, haven't seen any of them yet as it's still early in the game. :)

Edit: just took a look at craft.dat and indeed the shipping lane terror mission was a mixed crew. Odd, I never remembered mixed crew missions this early in the game before... :)

Ok, the associated terror unit (on land) for Aquatoids is Calcinites, it's Deep Ones for Gillmen, and Bio-Drones for Lobbies and Tasoths. So that checks out what the wiki mentions.

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#20 Zombie

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 07:18 PM

View PostZombie, on 8th September 2009, 10:44pm, said:

Tasoth Soldiers and Squad Leaders spawn in the normal way. Instead of a Technician, the game substitutes an Aquatoid Soldier, instead of Medics it substitutes Aquatoid Squad Leaders, and instead of the Navigator it substitutes a Calcinite. Terror Unit #1 is Triscenes while Terror Unit #2 is Bio-Drones. I checked this on a number of terror missions and it seems to hold. Cross another one off the list then. :)
Ah ha, this was a Type 4 mixed crew. There is actually a Type 5 mixed crew as well which is organized a little bit different:

Primary race: Lobstermen. The requisite number and quantity of Soldiers and Squad Leaders show up as normal. Instead of Technicians, an Aquatoid Soldier is substituted like before. Here's where things differ. Medics are replaced with a Bio-Drone, while the Navigator is replaced with a Deep One. Rounding out the list are the terror units: Bio-Drones first and then Calcinites. It might be interesting to know that when a terror unit is substituted for a normal alien, it gets a "Terrorist" suffix (eg Bio-Drone Terrorist). However, when a terrorist is naturally spawned it has no such suffix (eg just Bio-Drone). Kinda neat. ;)

There technically isn't a Type 6 mixed crew as it causes the game to crash if you edit it in. So that should be the extent of races possible on land. Will try to get water missions too.

More testing later today so stay tuned to this channel for late-breaking news (or non-news, whatever the case may be). :)

Late Edit: a race value of 6-10 always crashes the game when you try to enter the battlescape. Just for giggles, I changed the race to 255. Well, by golly, I was allowed into battle. When I poked my head out of the door I saw a Calcinite carrying a Sonic Rifle. That doesn't happen very often, now does it? :) Checking Unitref.dat I found the primary race was all Calcinite Terrorists with regular Calcinites for terror units. Fun stuff, even though it is never possible. :)

- Zombie

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JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!




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