Rifle butt to the face!


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 FullAuto

FullAuto

    Catching the next pimpmobile outta here!

  • Chief Editor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 10 February 2004 - 11:42 PM

In the UFO manual (Page 34 in mine), there's a screenshot of the battlescape, with most of the screen taken up by the various shooting options.  But above 'aimed shot' there's an option entitled "hit" which I have never ever seen.  Now I presume you have to be next to the alien to get it, but I've been right up close, with the standard rifle, and that option has never appeared.
Anyone know what's going on?  Was that option taken out before release or what?

Erfworld - the finest comic about turn-based gaming ever.


#2 Jman4117

Jman4117

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,257 posts
  • Location:Moomew's House

Posted 10 February 2004 - 11:45 PM

It was taken out after they made the manual I guess.
"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."
-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

#3 FullAuto

FullAuto

    Catching the next pimpmobile outta here!

  • Chief Editor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 11 February 2004 - 12:02 AM

Spoilsports.  Cold-cocking sectoids into submission would be so much better than using stun rods

Erfworld - the finest comic about turn-based gaming ever.


#4 Pumpkinhead

Pumpkinhead

    Vengeance: The Demon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 515 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 February 2004 - 12:58 AM

It's obviously from a very early version of the game because it has:

Page 34 of the manual said:

Hit     Acc>20%     APs>28

Looks like APs were what they were originally going to call Time Units :)

I've always thought it would be cool if they'd made it so that if no weapon was held, the soldier could use their fist in HTH ;) Imagine MC'ing a Snakeman, throwing away his weapons and then duking it out :(
"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO; Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus."
-- K, Men In Black

#5 NKF

NKF

    Mr. Badger in disguise

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,423 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my mind

Posted 11 February 2004 - 05:55 AM

AP = action points, I guess. Games like Fallout use AP's. Same thing really.

One of the things on top of my todo list if they ever release the code is to re-enable all the melee combat commands for the guns. You'd be surprised, but every weapon has melee damage levels (the stat used for the damage strength is also the same used for item quantity (used by ammo clips)).

Actually, the bash command never went away. They just removed the melee attack option, is all. You can actually get this command back by stacking a stun-rod and a weapon together.

Do this, pick up the weapon of your choice. With it on the cursor click on the page button for the floor items. Now, put the gun into your hand slot. It'll vanish. Don't click on the page button again or you'll have to restart. Now pick up the stun rod and put it in the slot you put the gun.

It will look like you're carrying the stun-rod, but it will be using the stats of the gun. However, notice that the 'stun' attack will still be there, and notice how the TU costs have increased to 50% (it's really the melee attack, but its text label still says 'stun'). Depending on the type of object used, the melee attacks can be nigh lethal. The heavy laser's pretty powerful. Test it, it's quite a lot of fun.

It's best used with lasers, so you don't need to worry about checking the ammo, as the stun-rod image won't display the ammo counter. Nevertheless, ammo will be used.

Be absolutely sure that you have enough TUs if you want to move the stacked items about, or else you'll get stuck in an endless loop without any TUs to drop anything.

Note, this stacking thing was really for making space on a crowded floor that's too crowded to fit anything, but not crowded enough to flip to an empty page.

They've completely removed it in TFTD, but it's still in UFO, so make use of it to install bayonets on your heavy plasmas! ;)

- NKF

P. S: I don't have the melee damage levels on hand, so I cannot recommend any good ones. They all cost 50% of your TUs to use, but some of them do piddling damage, while other can insta-kill a superhuman sectopod in one or two swipes. With the powerful ones, the 50% cost is rather justified, wouldn't you say?
NKF, narrow minded fuddy duddy who refuses to let go of the past and will not accept anything newer than 1979.

#6 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 18 February 2004 - 06:14 AM

* ponders *

I reckon a close range heavy plasma blast would be a lot more painful then just being smacked by one...

I saw that in the manual too, there was a thread about it oh so many years ago...

* ponders *

Maybe there's a pre-release demo or something that uses it.

The only demos I every found for the game lacked directory structure and didn't work. Compression programs in ye olde times didn't include the structure by default. No idea why.
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#7 JellyfishGreen

JellyfishGreen

    Tentacle Pentacle

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 790 posts

Posted 18 February 2004 - 10:56 AM

I guess I agree with BB- the Bash attack is cute, but a three-shot burst at point blank range would do similar damage for not much of an accuracy penalty. (Unless no alien were immune, or the TU cost was much lower.)

But along those lines, it would also be funny if you could throw your empty cannon at an alien and do damage if you hit him ;)
The deadly Lobsterman threat was finally countered by melee combat with power tools. -ufopaedia.org

#8 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 19 February 2004 - 10:02 PM

I think maybe that was supposed to do damage once... I can't see any other reason to throw weapons. Hmm... though I suppose it could help to re-equip a trooper who paniced and ran away from his guns...
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#9 Ki-tat Chung

Ki-tat Chung

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 818 posts

Posted 19 February 2004 - 11:18 PM

it would be useful if you ran out of ammo i suppose...
011110010110111101110101
011000010111001001100101
01100100011101010110110101100010

#10 Psy Guy

Psy Guy

    PSY MASTER

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 187 posts

Posted 20 February 2004 - 04:52 PM

I would think melee attacks would be 100% accurate, high damage, and of course cost zero ammo. They must of planned to put it in there as a "if you run into alien then melee attack would be a good attack" type action. Guess the chance for such a situation occuring was small enought to warrent the removal of the command. But early on i would like to have the option to pop a sectoid with the back end of a heavy cannon  :devil:

To NKF
Does stacking a stun rod on a rifle cause accuracy penalty from holding 2 items?

To anyone
What would happen if you put 2 stunrods on a chrysalid? Would it ever "infest" a person or just stun them?
News Today: Grav Ball League accepts the nomination for the "Vacuous Ally" award given by the X-Com Board of Public Relations. Experts predict that the two time Vacuous Ally winner Lifetree will win the award for the 3rd time following its $200,000 joint endeavor with General Metro to increase Blazer Turbo Bike production.

#11 NKF

NKF

    Mr. Badger in disguise

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,423 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my mind

Posted 20 February 2004 - 07:48 PM

No, because the other hand is still free. ;)

- NKF
NKF, narrow minded fuddy duddy who refuses to let go of the past and will not accept anything newer than 1979.

#12 Rattler

Rattler

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 98 posts

Posted 20 February 2004 - 10:39 PM

Quote

Guess the chance for such a situation occuring was small enought to warrent the removal of the command

Riiiiight. I run into aliens all the time and usually don't have enough TU to fire, so a quick bash would help to at least weaken them abit. This sorta thing usually happens to me once during each mission(depending on mission and terrain on Terror Mission I run into aliens like once a turn)

#13 EclipseDog

EclipseDog

    Wagging the Dog

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 98 posts

Posted 21 February 2004 - 01:36 AM

I've used the stacking thing a time or two just to test it but by and large it just ain't worth doing to me... and that's even if I chose to ignore the feelings of it being a bug abuse.

Ever stacked another weapon with a blaster launcher? Don't. It makes it so your Blaster can't be launched and shots from the other weapon go buggy.

Ever stacked any weapon with a stun gun and then tried to stun something? I got more corpses out of that than stunned aliens.

Ever stacked a weapon on top of a psi-amp? Psi-amp stops working.

Etc.

The worst thing however is when you've double stacked something and accidently click on the weapon area for some reason. Once even lightly clicked on, a double-stacked area forces you to move one of the two items regardless of whether you want to or not and the double-stacking ability will not be able to be reapplied to the area you got the item from.

Note: This can be really, really, really bad when your trooper has either 0 or 1 TU left max since you can't drop the weap, can't put it back, and can't put it in any of your pouches and the game won't allow you to enter another troopers supply screen while the item is on-key and you can't escape from the supply screen while an item is on-key. At that point your only option is to ctrl+alt+del your game application and after it is closed rerun it... minus whatever data you ran after your last save state.

Basically I can't see any reason at all that would make it worthwhile to abuse that bug but a whole lot of reasons not to.

#14 NKF

NKF

    Mr. Badger in disguise

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,423 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my mind

Posted 21 February 2004 - 03:00 AM

That last bit you mention is actually quite common for those who use the psi-amp to mind control aliens and then use the inventory trick to get to their equipment. For aliens, all equipment defaults to slot 0, or their left (well, right) leg, and thus you can have multiple items stacked. Very bad, as you can get caught in an infinite loop with no way of getting out the moment you spend all your TUs.

The melee attacks are actually quite expensive. 50% of your base TUs. That's very expensive - though for some objects, their melee attack capabilies can be very powerful and worth spending the TUs on. (like killing a superhuman sectopod with one bash...)  

I would highly advise against using and stacking combinations besides the stun-rod and a weapon. The effects can be highly unpredictable and could cause the game to crash.

You can also stack items in your inventory... but, personally, I've never had any reason to stack more equipment beyond what you can carry (particularly with soldiers maxed at 70 strength). Oh, you can stack rockets and blaster bombs, but I feel it would be a lot better to have team mates carry spares rather than unnecessarily weigh down a soldier. Well, I suppose there's also the argument where you can stack items in the shoulder slots so that you can rapidly deploy your equipment to your hand slots ... but that's a mere 1 TU saving. ;)

- NKF
NKF, narrow minded fuddy duddy who refuses to let go of the past and will not accept anything newer than 1979.

#15 Cpl. Facehugger

Cpl. Facehugger

    The Christmas avatar is here forever! Muhahaha!

  • Fan Fiction
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 337 posts

Posted 21 February 2004 - 04:00 AM

I think that the melee ability for rifles and the like should be similar to TFTD's drills. Really low TUs required, high (but way less than a vibroblade, perhaps 50?) damage, and you obviously have to be right next to an alien to use it.
Both Chryssalids AND Lobstermen taste good with butter? What a great deal!

Project Xenocide

#16 Ki-tat Chung

Ki-tat Chung

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 818 posts

Posted 21 February 2004 - 04:10 AM

anybody know where we can edit the stats? perhaps we can make a patch
011110010110111101110101
011000010111001001100101
01100100011101010110110101100010

#17 NKF

NKF

    Mr. Badger in disguise

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,423 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my mind

Posted 21 February 2004 - 10:17 AM

Editing the stats is the easiest part (they're all in obdata.dat). Enabling the melee attacks for the guns themselves, now there's a real challenge.

- NKF
NKF, narrow minded fuddy duddy who refuses to let go of the past and will not accept anything newer than 1979.

#18 EclipseDog

EclipseDog

    Wagging the Dog

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 98 posts

Posted 22 February 2004 - 12:03 AM

Now pardon me if I'm misreading the problem here but... If the code uses java or something similar a simple patch could be added I'd think. Just add a 'hidden' / 'invisible' component layer that lies on top of the layer we all see and make it key to a spot nothing else is keyed into and then give that spot the bash code... of course that would probably have to be recoded since in all likelihood it has either already been yanked by the origs and even if it hasn't would still have a different trigger zone.

#19 Ki-tat Chung

Ki-tat Chung

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 818 posts

Posted 22 February 2004 - 06:11 AM

nah. this ain't java. this is a ms-dos game. well, i guess we could just edit the stats to make it a quicker attack and just to the gun/stun-rod thing.
011110010110111101110101
011000010111001001100101
01100100011101010110110101100010

#20 EclipseDog

EclipseDog

    Wagging the Dog

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 98 posts

Posted 22 February 2004 - 11:11 AM

*shrugs* I believe the MS-Dos games are coded using various assembly languages such as C. Java is basically an evolved form of that simplistic coding which allows for more integrity. Since the game uses a clicking interface it is very probable that my suggestion would work if any of us have all of the requirred skills to make the process work.

Clicking interfaces infer that there are triggers coded behind the scenes, whenever that is the case it is extremely easy to add in a simple patch that includes a trigger where the original layout theme had no triggers previously set. Once that is done all you'd need to do is add a small image file to fill the trigger space which tells the user what the trigger does. Oh, and if it occupies a space held by other things such as map screen (such as what happens when you click on a weapon and prepare to use it in the battlefield) then you'd also need to add the triggers to make the field screen become visible once you've made a selection (by hiding the trigger, and thus its image, again) and of course another to pull up the bash trigger in the first place.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users