Floaters. Why?


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#21 Pumpkinhead

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 02:43 AM

Why's everyone picking on the poor Floaters? Read this quote from the UFOpaedia:

Quote

The lower half of the body and most internal organs are surgically removed, and a life support system is installed. This implant contains an anti-grav unit which enables the creature to float, albeit unsteadily, through the air.

I mean, those poor fellas... How would you like to be "drastically altered by surgery" against your will... They've been sliced and diced by the Ethereals and Sectoids who didn't even install a quality product... If they had, the poor floaters wouldn't float "unsteadily" now would they... Dodgy superior aliens!... I think we should all be more sympathetic to the Floaters' plight ;)
"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO; Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus."
-- K, Men In Black

#22 JellyfishGreen

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 11:19 AM

I would be sympathetic if I hadn't lost two experienced, powersuited troopers to two floaters hiding in the same barn last night. Superhuman setting... The same team had "harvested" three intact floater supply ships with scarcely any losses, and then to be brought down during a crashed scout recovery that was supposed to be just training for the rookies... (sniff) It's painful.

Remember to look left AND right when checking those corners, people.

At superhuman level, standard grenades and HC-HE rounds do not always bring down floaters. When mutons show up, I'll have to stop even bothering to bring those along.
The deadly Lobsterman threat was finally countered by melee combat with power tools. -ufopaedia.org

#23 EclipseDog

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 12:07 PM

Eh... personally I just drag along 1 laser weap and 1 plasma weap per trooper and totally forget about wasting space with those silly toys anyhow since the weight can quickly add up with them.

Nothing is immune to both of those two (except maybe the zombies... don't know since I tend to react overzealously when those body snatchers are around and tend to overkill if anything) which means that you can take down pretty much anything if you have a bunch of troopers shooting at a target in tandem. Laser pistol in one hand and plasma pistol in the other... not as much damage when hit but takes less TUs to shoot and don't lose accuracy from having both hands full which means not having to move weaps in and out of inventory in order to keep only one in hand at a time.

#24 JellyfishGreen

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 02:34 PM

No, for me this game-month it's one two-handed weapon per trooper, one alien grenade, one prox grenade. This gives you accuracy when firing, but if you need to nuke something out of sight, you can use your own grenade or use the relay. The HC-HE trooper carries a backup laser pistol but I keep the HC around for knocking down walls to clear shots for the other troopers. And putting Sectoids in their place, even on Superhuman.

I even have a pretty good record with the rocket launcher team - one guy has the loaded launcher, small reload rocket, and sidearm. His overwatch partner has heavy plasma and another heavy rocket reload or two in the backpack. The rocket launcher usually moves last - if none of the scouts have provided him with a target, he does a full move and doesn't bother saving TU for a snapshot. This allows him to keep up with the front line despite the considerable weight.

Floater Supply Ships - after staking out a Floater base and getting a recovery craft into position, I was hijacking a supply ship every week for a month, and be darned if I wasn't starting to follow a pattern. I had a modified Firestorm stalking them, with 6 soldiers and a HWP; after clearing the outside and sniping a few at the exit, I'd breach with a team of 3 at each door; clear the one or two aliens usually at the grav lifts, quickly peek into the engine room in passing (150 units of intact eleurim waiting, sweet); send one guy straight to the top floor to hide by the door, while the other two on his team go halfway up and bust open the shaft with plasma rounds; five guys sweep the middle deck. Usually the floaters are starting to panic by now. Then all six troops re-converge on the lift, head for the upper deck, and advance on the control room. First guy out of the lift turns right; the second turns left, checks the corner, then turns to stand next to the closed door; third advances past second guy to snipe towards control room; fourth (if time) enters closed door. Then it's just a matter of leapfrogging most of the team up the north corridor towards the control room with overwatch while one or two do a quick sweep of the narrow south corridor, perhaps opening a shortcut across the waist of the ship with heavy plasma along the way.

Occasionally I'd vary this routine by hitting the floor of the control room from below with HE-HC or stun rounds, but that could be considered cheating. But not as exploitative as the time I shoved a brick of HE up through the floor of the control room. ;) A quick way to end the mission. Also fun is tossing HE or alien grenades into the diagonal walls at the back of the ship, near the lifts, from outside, with a long delay; if timed right, this kills anyone near the lifts inside just before the breaching team gets there. In mountain terrain, this might even destroy the outer wall at the waist of the ship! Easy lift access if I had stuck around!

And all that procedure comes from harsh experience, like the time I forgot to check the corner after coming out of the top level lift and was shot in the back.

And it got me a sectoid leader, too, once I had identified my weakest link and given him a standard pistol and smoke grenades. He was being alternately panicked and controlled somewhere out in the forest right up until the powersuits kicked in the control room door and hit the leader with stun rounds at point blank range. :) Up until that time every attempted supply ship hijacking or sectoid base raid had been a psi-attacked disaster.
The deadly Lobsterman threat was finally countered by melee combat with power tools. -ufopaedia.org

#25 M. Hoz

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 05:50 PM

<<No more you know what references please>>

It's no wonder the floaters are so inaccurate-they float unsteadily!
They're not dumb at all either-see the "Alien Surgery" (I think that's the name)
in the UFOpedia.
Sorry for wasting your time and space....


#26 NickAragua

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 02:21 AM

Well, I've actually seen a Reaper bite people. The problem with reapers is that they have incredibly poor pathfinding (more so than their floater counterparts), so they will often run back and forth in front of my soldiers while getting peppered with reaction shots. In my years playing X-Com, I've seen (once) a reaper take a bite out of (and kill) a civilian, and I've seen a reaper take a bite out of (but not kill) one of my troopers. They're a bit of a pain near the start of the game 'cause all you have is little pop guns that are woefully inaccurate and do piddling amounts of damage - so while you're busy whaling on the reaper, some floater is walking up to your troops and throwing grenades.

Speaking of floaters, they're not horrible, but they aren't exactly the cream of the crop. I mean, they do have guns and grenades, and it doesn't really matter if they don't hit your T-Shirt wearing rookies dead on with a grenade - the blast still gets them pretty good. Still, they don't really use their upward mobility to any decent effect, they're fairly weak, and they're not very good shots.

Let's just say that when my soldiers pee their pants, it's a good bet that it's not because of floaters.

#27 EclipseDog

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 06:39 AM

You want to nuke something? Just keep a blaster launcher (pre-loaded during the initial weapons check) stashed in your backpack of each trooper.  ;)

Speaking of which that brings me to my most fun experience this particular month...

Here's the scene... Alien Terror battleship I shot down but with no visible damage upon impact. Chocked full of sectoids and cyberdisks, only two sectoids had actually come out of the ship so I was pretty sure some kinda plot was awaiting me inside... so... I blaster bomb the door on the ground floor. After the door turns into slagged metal leaving 1 square hole behind I see inside a disk. So I shoot a second bomb through the hole and directly aimed to the disk. Major explosion. Battleship goes from a 3 lvl monster to a 1 level destroyed husk. Now that's what I'm talking about!

:devil:

#28 JellyfishGreen

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 09:59 AM

I don't have BB's yet in the game at hand, but how did you nuke the upper levels with that shot at ground level? Vertical cyberdisk chain reactions must be pretty rare. (And are rookies cheaper than blaster bombs when it comes to opening doors?)

MHoz: Well, he was. Swelp me if someone else has chosen to overuse the phrase.  :hmmm:
The deadly Lobsterman threat was finally countered by melee combat with power tools. -ufopaedia.org

#29 NKF

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 10:34 AM

Rare indeed. Vertical chain detonations are practically impossible. You can go so far as damage the floor tiles of the level immediately above the explosion, but you go no further than that. And cyberdiscs only detonate on the level they were on. Their corpses on the other hand will drop down to the nearest available floor.

In which case, I would assume the central lift would be involved, as you can move blaster bombs up and down them with no trouble.

---


Rookie vs Blaster bomb.

Let's compare.

Blaster bomb:
Pro:
1. Instant Boom! Enough said.
2. Can sometimes be collected in the field.
3. Can go anywhere in the field on the same turn.
4. A lot more portable than carrying a bunch of rookies in your pocket. ;)
5. Cannot be interrupted by reaction.

Con:
1. Costs zrbite to build.
2. Rare.
3. You've got to give these rockets a lot of space to move. Clip an edge too soon - and it's all over. i.e. it doesn't necessarily fall exactly where you want it.
4. Loot + Boom! Enough said.
5. Reuse? What's left to reuse?

Rookie:
Pro:
1. Does not cost elerium.
2. Far more versatile. Can be rigged with a high explosive and other throw-away weapons.
3. Can by hired in bulk.
4. If the rookie survives, and isn't an outright vegetable, the rookie can go on to be a pampered veteran.


Con:
1. Can easily turn a hardened veteran into a gibbering mass after sending in the n-th rookie to his or her doom. Seriously folks, lose a rookie, lose morale. Do this too much and even your commander's going to panic (heck, even your tanks will start to panic).
2. The last-ditch armed explosive will not always fall exactly where you want it if the soldier is killed.
3. Much more limited than blaster bombs in terms of mobility.
4. Cannot be collected in the field. :)
5. Opportunity fire can be a real problem.  

Personally, I find it better to save the rookie and waste the blaster bomb. Cheap though rookies may be (relatively speaking, of course), I don't find the morale loss to be particularly desireable. Fear can really render the strong useless (in this game).

- NKF
NKF, narrow minded fuddy duddy who refuses to let go of the past and will not accept anything newer than 1979.

#30 Pumpkinhead

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 03:48 PM

M. Hoz, on Feb 12 2004, 03:50 AM, said:

<<No more you know what references please>>
No, I don't know what... What are you refering to? :dontgetit:
"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO; Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus."
-- K, Men In Black

#31 JellyfishGreen

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 05:37 PM

Pumpkinhead, on Feb 12 2004, 03:48 PM, said:

M. Hoz, on Feb 12 2004, 03:50 AM, said:

<<No more you know what references please>>
No, I don't know what... What are you refering to? :dontgetit:
"weakest link"
The deadly Lobsterman threat was finally countered by melee combat with power tools. -ufopaedia.org

#32 Pumpkinhead

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 02:51 AM

JellyfishGreen, on Feb 13 2004, 03:37 AM, said:

"weakest link"
Oh... Is that all... ;)
"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO; Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus."
-- K, Men In Black

#33 Pumpkinhead

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 02:57 AM

On topic again, I still don't know why you chose to pick on the Floaters... I mean, Sectoids are equal or lower in every stat... Why not pick on them instead?

NB - Except of course the Leaders and Commanders with their Psi-Skill... ;)
"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO; Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus."
-- K, Men In Black

#34 NKF

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 04:05 AM

Psionics is exactly why people don't pick on the sectoids. That and the relatively nasty terror unit they associate with. ;)

But when you look at it, even a light breeze would kill them.

Snakemen are just as bad, though they may excel in some stats and are hopeless in others. But people don't pick on them because they've got very nasty companions.

Why not pick on something even worse? How about a silacoid (or was it celatid? the hot stone organism thingummywhatsit)? Sure, they're paired with mutons, but on their own, they're not any better than reapers (apart from being smaller and they set fire to the ground).

- NKF

edit: In retrospect, it wouldn't die very easily from pistol shots. Sectoids, floaters and snakemen will. So, I guess it wouldn't count as one of the fodder aliens.
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#35 Nightshade

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 07:07 AM

I think the post had to be modified by a mod.

#36 Pumpkinhead

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 03:37 PM

I posted this in another thread cuz I wanted to find out where each Alien ranked in a combat situation, so by multiplying all of the relevant stats on a Superhuman difficulty, the ranks come out in this order:

1. Sectoid
2. Zombie
3. Floater
4. Snakeman
5. Silacoid
6. Celatid
7. Reaper
8. Muton
9. Ethereal
10. Cyberdisc
11. Sectopod
12. CHRYSSALID!!

Note #1: This includes a damage stat in which I gave all the main aliens Heavy Plasma...

Note #2: I left out Psi-skill purely for a "fighting" rating, but if it's included it brings the Ethereal to #12, beating the Chryssalid!


So as you can see, Sectoids do actually rank lower than Floaters ;)
"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO; Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and refracted the light from Venus."
-- K, Men In Black

#37 Lonestar

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 07:23 PM

If I had to pick between a ship full of sectoids and  ship full of floaters.  I would rather face the floaters.  Even sectoids by themselves are more dangerous than floaters. I don't care what the stats say.  I have more trouble with sectoids than floaters.  
   There was one time when my soldiers (veterans and rookies) were going after a ship full of sectoids.  After killing all but one sectoid they started getting shot off.  I found out that the last one was in the vicinity of a two-level farm house.  I sent some soldiers over there and they got shot.  So I decided to have a soldier sneak over to the building to view the sectoid and kill it.  Well the sectoid killed him.  Fortunatly one of my men shot the sectoid with a laser rifle, but it didn't kill him. Instead the sectoid shot him.  Now I have my remaning soldiers obliterate the farm house and the fields around it with high-explosives.  This didn't kill the sectoid.  He just decides to shoot another one of my soldiers.  So I now have no choice but to fire blindly into the smoke and have the other soldier perforate what's  left of the farm house.  This doesn't work.  The sectoid kills another soldier of mine.  Now I decide to have my last soldier R.L.H it of there and go to the skyranger.  Mission over.
    I have more tales of horror like that concerning sectoids.  Only one with floaters.  That one had rookies with rifles that had little ammunition going up against a medium craft full of floaters at night.

#38 the_dead

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 09:33 AM

The best way to take the mick out of floaters is to just send in one veteran to kill the lot of them single handedly* this will make a complete mockery of the pink floaty fools.


*I didn't use in battle save to cheat at any time**

**honest***

***well not much ;)

#39 NKF

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 09:52 AM

Speaking of making them a mockery... Is it time yet for me to bring back my good old Solo Floater Base Assault With Pistol and Handful of Grenades challenge? ;)

- NKF
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#40 the_dead

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 10:17 AM

I take it the use of save game will be banned for this contest ;)




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