25 replies to this topic

[flark]

I agree with Gimli, excessive saving and reloading really does ruin a game's tension and replay value.

Back in the day, I remember playing Rebelstar 1 & 2 repeatedly over and over again until I became an absolute mastermind at them. There was no save/load feature, and to make matters worse/or better, you could only play the game once before having to reload it again via tape. It might have seemed like a burden, but it made every game important, and every move you made was vital.

Nowadays, with save/load feature abuse most games become a little boring after completing them once. There is nothing to improve on after you have completed the game 'perfectly', which is all too easy with save/load abuse.

I know we all have the option of whether or not we decide to abuse this feature, but it is all too tempting when it is so easy to do so. One of the reasons I enjoy Silent Storm so much is because of the 'no save in combat' feature.

I really wish more games would try to remove or at least limit save/load abuse. A simple method of only allowing a couple of saves per mission might help. But really for me the best option would be the permanent automatic saving which some (rare) games do where you cannot quit without saving. Maybe this should be for reserved for the harder difficulty levels only - an ingame 'Ironman mode'.

[Knan]

Bah. This is a subject of many flamewars. Keep it civil.

Of course you can savescum your way to perfect success, if you really want to. You only hurt your own enjoyment, so it's your own business.

Trying to forbid that by limiting saving - that way lies madness. I don't necessarily have four straight hours to finish a large mission in one sitting, for example.

Let people save whenever they want, and muster their own willpower to make the game easier or harder.

Do include an optional ironman mode in the game if you want. ToEE had one. But don't force it on me, please, life's too short for that.

[Azrael Strife]

They are games and they are meant for us to have fun, if I have fun reloading every single time a soldier even takes the slightest hit, that's only my problem and no one else's, if that's what makes the game fun for me, why does it have to affect anyone else enough to say that it "ruins the game tension" or whatever other stuff you might say about using a game feature, cause guess what, it doesn't ruin the game tension or any other part of the game to me! does it ruin it to you if I do it? well, if that's the case we have a completely different problem

As always, I still don't see how having fun the way I want to can be considered cheating by others  

Gimli, on 1st May 2007, 5:27pm, said:

Because if you keep excessively reloading then you can beat almost any game like that no matter the difficulty, purely by use of reloading, and not actual skill. That way I could beat Serious Sam with 400% extra enemy health on the Serious difficulty, yet if I went to online play after that, I would still lose a lot in deathmatch. Why, because having played the game like that would not represent my actual skill, it is merely the skill of constant reloading, and saving at the right point. As a better comparison, play Serious Sam 2 with reloading, and then play by relying on limited lives. I can guarantee you'll see the difference. Likewise, do the same with X-COM. I beat each of them on Superhuman without losing any soldiers. Why? Because I kept reloading. Then I went to Ironman mode, and it took me a good 40 attempts to beat UFO and TFTD on Superhuman. But you know what? I actually learned quite a few new tactics.

That has never hurted my fun, I certainly don't understand what you're saying.

Quote

Of course you can savescum your way to perfect success, if you really want to. You only hurt your own enjoyment, so it's your own business.

[flark]

I appreciate what you are saying and agree if that is how you choose to play you should be able to.

If I'm completely honest I admit my problem is self-inflicted. I WANT to play 'Ironman' style - but too often lack the willpower and give in to the temptation of an all too easy re-load when things go wrong. What I really want is an option at the start of a new game, along with the difficulty selection which removes or limits the all too tempting save/reload feature.


Of all of the times I have played XCOM, the most fun I've had was playing a sort of '2-player hotseat' game with a good friend. We took turns picking from the original 8 soldiers and shared out all of the weapons and equipment, keeping a list. From then on we recruited, bought or manufactured everything in pairs, agreeing on all strategic and research decisions together.

Playing like this in total 'Ironman' style (as long as you are good friends with similar abilities) the tactical missions were absolutely amazing! It was the most fun I have ever had playing a computer game! What a shame we had to grow up and let real life get in the way of XCOM.

[Knan]

Aah. Yes, have had much fun back in the day pooling brains over a game of x-com.

These days it would probably involve beer & coffee as well, not only coca cola. If it could be arranged. UFO:ET may well be the excuse I need. Hmm...

And yes, it's easier to keep honest when there's a friend beside you

[Nicol.Bolas]

Hello, Gimly and Azrael, my 1st post!

I am another 23yr old xcom/ufo fanatic, and I enjoyed all of the 6 games a lot. Another favourite is Incubation: Time is running out.

Today I want to ask you about ufo: XT. The reviews I read were all pretty scary, but then again, these were written for the mass crowd that can´t apreciate classic game.



Warning siren for me however, is the "soldiers can´t die. Is it the truth?

I am a hardcore ironmen player, this style brings me way more fun for the reasons all you ironmen out here know. I dropped reloading way back when I was playing TFTD as a 11yr kid, then I would reload after every missed shot lol. Getting into difficult or even hopeless situations (both tactics and strategy wise) is the fun for me as well in these games

Anyway, is U:XT desingned like Ufo:After Light? UAL was designed with reloading in mind - you had 20 men to succeed in 100+ missions, no replacement. Is there such a design foult in XT too? making a real ironmen experience almost impossible? Can someone please explain?.

I fully agree with gimly, and I also agree with Azraels "what matters is fun"


Let me explain  ufo:EU, TFTD, APOC, AM,AS all support both realoading people (making azrael happy),

AND ALSO ironmen people: you can loose soldiers, and still go on without reloading, experience real war and give the antagonists a chance to trigger their win screen ! (making Nicol Bolas happy)

AL however, turned their back on ironmen, you just were expected to play perfectly in 100+ missions, but mostly reload, since there is no replacements for soldiers. Although I love this game, I took this personally.

So, if you are the kinda fanatic who read through this, how goes UFO: XT in this matter?

Looking forward for a reply.