Scale of Conflict


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#21 Snakeman

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:39 AM

Maybe I'm must mixing up the timeline, but I thought the events in Interceptor (or was it enforcer?) or prior to it was when the Patton disappeared, then the stuff in Apoc happened - and wasn't Genesis supposed to be about returning to Earth from the frontier to save it?

I dunno what to take as canon beyond what has already been out.  TFTD I'm shaky on just by virtue of not playing it beyond its demo many years ago.  So forgive me if I'm not up on lifeforms such as micronoids or whatever a psilord is :)

Also I just thought I should chime in for anyone who's visited the Xenocide forums.  Under the thread about alien motivations or whatever it is, there's a thread titled "Why?" I think that has a lot of similar dicussion in it that might be interesting.

#22 Skonar

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:32 AM

Got a link to it? I've been unable to find said topic. It sounds like potentially useful reading!
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#23 Snakeman

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:42 PM

Sorry about that, after the forum rearrangements over there, I had a harder time digging it up but its under the Laboratories subforum - X-Lab: Alien goals/motives, Storyline

http://www.xcomufo.c...?showtopic=4041

A lot of the material here are either ideas for Xeno's backstory, after version 1, or just things people would want further elaboration to where the originals are concerned.

#24 Bomb Bloke

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:03 AM

I figured that the Sectoids who appeared in Apocalypse society were simply Sectoids from the original war who surrendered once the brain got clobbered, or hid in the shadows until the humans were happy enough to live with them.

I'm not sure that they were ever under Micronoid control... The UFOpedia put their objectives down not as "crush kill destroy" but rather "gene farming". If all the aliens were controlled by Micronoids, they'd all act the same way.
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#25 NickAragua

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 06:30 PM

I think the key thing is to not take the gameplay too literally. If you did, then it follows that the "Best of the Best" of the world are attacking the aliens without any of the tools available to the modern military (recon aircraft, air support, snipers, body armor and helmets, etc.), and yet have the ability to instantaneously disassemble and transport UFOs back to a base half a world away. Meanwhile, landed alien ships allow X-Com skyrangers to land within as little as a hundred feet of them without so much as a peep, and attempt to "terrorize" human cities with population in the millions using 10-15 aliens. Additionally, the aliens always descend into the suburbs, and limit their activities to a (roughly estimated) 1000-square-foot area, and finally, are unable to mount any sort of tactical coordination despite having achieved interstellar travel.

So, with that in mind, the scale would be fairly small. Maybe not as small as depicted in the game (again, "terrorizing" a major city with 15 guys?), but fairly small for the most part. When we're talking about assaulting/recovering a UFO with 10 guys on board, you're fine with a single skyranger. An alien base? Two or three. Terror site? The local army probably helps (I'm just glad they abstracted the negotiations part - "What do you mean we can't fly our guys over Turkish airspace?"). X-Com isn't a massed infantry charge unit, it's a spec-ops unit. In the beginning, you'd probably have a horrendous casualty rate per mission (I generally have about 20-30% of a squad dying on superhuman against an equal size force, and yes, that's a horrible casualty rate for a modern military force, especially given that X-Com is basically the best of the best of the spec-ops).

Also, contrary to game mechanics, beyond a certain point, throwing more scientists at a problem does not necessarily solve it faster, nor does throwing more engineers at aircraft construction make that go faster. This isn't a frigging assembly line factory in Kamchatka or whatever, it's a high-tech research and manufacturing facility. 250 people dissecting a single dinky little sectoid? Yeah, right. 200 guys working on making a single laser rifle? Please.

Anyway, out of all that rambling, I would say, over the course of AW-I, X-Com consists of under a thousand soldiers, and three times as much support staff. Additionally, I'm sure that many times more people than that are indirectly involved in helping X-Com (weapon manufacturers, the guys who buy sectoid corpses for $20k apiece...)

The aliens, of course throw much more material overall at the problem, but X-Com has the advantage of concentrating force in a specific area.

#26 seeker

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 02:29 AM

to quote an example, how can US lose in vietnam? (no offense to US or vietnam)

as a game, it is more fun to start as underdog, slowly gaining strength, then beat the big guy on their turf.
scaling is not so realistic . the funding are too little and conventional weapons cost too much! rifle cost thousands? is it gold plated?

i think alien avoid sending too many UFO and avoid too much battles because E115 based propulsion and weapon discharge will harm earth's enviroment. AW2 found out this, right? so no more E115 based tech.
alas it is too late. the enviroment is harmed. only a handful of cities left in apoc. in a way we lost the war strategically. imagine all of our population reduced to a few cities....

#27 Snakeman

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 01:28 AM

Yeah but when it came to the Apoc timeline, it wasn't just environmental reasons people left, E-155 changed the way they looked at propulsion and that started colonization efforts - and I don't believe that it caused enviromental problems (but I could be wrong).   To my understanding, the using up of most of the elerium between the 1st and 2nd wars kicked this off.  They first found more eleirum in the Mars base, and that led them to the frontier in the other games that came out where apparently they did find ways to mine it and replenish what they needed from the frontier and shipping it back.

As for the city represented in Apoc, I think Mega Primus or whatever it was called was the only mega city with plans for more if this experiment had worked.  

Your absolutely right though that the funding levels were skewed too low for what they were about and what their mission was in the original game's time frame.  I imagined their funding level to be not too far off from say, what NASA gets - and that's already a fairly underfunded enterprise by most other program standards in use.  Realistically they'd probably get a little more because it was internationally funded, not a U.S.  led operation.




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