Why did Hezbollah attack Israel?


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#21 Blehm 98

new
Blehm 98

    former bf2 pro... left because of hitreg...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 10 August 2006 - 05:08 AM

I think a useful point to make in this situation is the following:
Hamas and Hezbollah deliberately aim to attack and kill civilians.  Thats why they use short range dumb missiles.  They aim at a city and hope to kill as many people as possible

The Israelis aim for military or strategic targets of value.  If civilians are killed, then that cannot be helped, as it is impossible to stop all civilian casualties.  But the Israelis do their best not to kill israelis (on the part of the Lebanon forging stuff, they do make fake photos, like the ones involving the building that was destroyed after the israeli airstirke, it was largely staged, and apparently some guy from a british newspaper was faking pictures of an Israeli plane strafing a city street with rockets or something like that)
I was this *---* close to being a bf2 pro player, but i left because of my internet and hitreg...  meh.  Just plain meh

#22 Bomb Bloke

new
Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,515 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 10 August 2006 - 07:20 AM

Given that I'm not a student of political studies, I think I'd quite like to hear how economic or social issues could cause people to strap bombs on their backs and detonate them. I fail to see the personal benefit.

Though little as I know about political issues, I do consider it fair to say that Islam has quite a bit to do with them. Did Muhammad go into the conquest business because of Islam, or did Islam go into the conquest business because of Muhammad?
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#23 Zager

new
Zager

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 391 posts

Posted 10 August 2006 - 04:36 PM

Quote

Given that I'm not a student of political studies, I think I'd quite like to hear how economic or social issues could cause people to strap bombs on their backs and detonate them. I fail to see the personal benefit.

http://www.safe-demo...orism-Vol-1.pdf

Here's a brief study on the topic, an attempt to understand the psychology and motivations of terrorists.

Also, you have a severe misunderstanding of the terrorist life cycle. Nobody joins a terror organization one day, and becomes a suicide bomber the next, the process of becoming a true believer in the cause is a long, and complicated one. You should note that suicide bombing is not the result of religion, but rather, the result of people willing to die for their cause.

Quote

Did Muhammad go into the conquest business because of Islam, or did Islam go into the conquest business because of Muhammad?

Oh please. You talk like Islam is the only religion in the world to practice conversions through warfare.

#24 Matri

new
Matri

    Official Love Nest Mascot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 576 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 August 2006 - 10:39 PM

View PostZager, on 11th August 2006, 12:36am, said:

Oh please. You talk like Islam is the only religion in the world to practice conversions through warfare.

Well, it is the only religion currently doing it today.
"Never be normal!" - Ron Stoppable

MechQuest. Get your mecha RPG fix.
Star Citizen.

#25 Blehm 98

new
Blehm 98

    former bf2 pro... left because of hitreg...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 11 August 2006 - 02:45 AM

Islam is quite possibly the only religion in the world that does war specifically for conversions, most other cases, particularly spanish invasion of America against indians, were in the name of converting Indians to Christians, but were only for the gold and getting other riches

Islam however makes you convert or you will be oppressed and eventually killed.
I was this *---* close to being a bf2 pro player, but i left because of my internet and hitreg...  meh.  Just plain meh

#26 Zager

new
Zager

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 391 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 03:00 AM

Quote

Well, it is the only religion currently doing it today.

Such a bold statement. Such a false statement. Every single religion in existence today has extremist members. Christianity, Islaim, Judaism, Hinduism, hell, even Budhism has produced terrorists.

Quote

Islam is quite possibly the only religion in the world that does war specifically for conversions, most other cases, particularly spanish invasion of America against indians, were in the name of converting Indians to Christians, but were only for the gold and getting other riches

Forgetting the crusades, are we?

Quote

Islam however makes you convert or you will be oppressed and eventually killed.

Actually, historical Islam warfare conversions were fairly civilized compared to most other religions. They didn't slaughter civilians, as opposed to Christianity's kill them all and god shall pluck his own from the flock mentality, but merely imposed higher taxes on non-believers they conquered.

#27 Blehm 98

new
Blehm 98

    former bf2 pro... left because of hitreg...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 11 August 2006 - 03:07 AM

as i said, most religions were attacking in the name of religion but for other purposes


The crusades were to push the Islamics away from Jerusalem, and to make sure they didn't get Europe.  The only problem was they got out of hand, but the Crusades were not for converting people
I was this *---* close to being a bf2 pro player, but i left because of my internet and hitreg...  meh.  Just plain meh

#28 DeepOne

new
DeepOne

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 12 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 04:29 AM

Quote

Zager:
You know what your problem is? You want life to be simple. You just want to point to this, and say that this a direct result of that, while decrying those that point out the real issues.
And this would be your problem.

Quote

You should note that suicide bombing is not the result of religion, but rather, the result of people willing to die for their cause.
And what is the common cause in all of these attacks?

Quote

Every single religion in existence today has extremist members. Christianity, Islaim, Judaism, Hinduism, hell, even Budhism has produced terrorists.
Moral Relativism rears its ugly head again.  How many of those religions advocate forcible worldwide elimination (or enslavement) of all who will not adhere to it?  Islam does.  Christianity and Judaism do not.  I don't know about Hinduism and Buddhism, but they don't seem to be causing any trouble.

I looked through the .pdf document to which you linked.  Those people apparently have no understanding as to the nature of Islam.  Instead of reading Islamic scripture for themselves, they engage in some sort of pseudo-intellectual orgy of political correctness.  They even use the platitude "extremists in their midst who have hijacked their nations and their religion".  If anyone has hijacked Islam, it is the so-called moderate Muslims (Muhammad himself railed against people like that calling them hypocrites).  This was my favorite:  "Yet, Roy cautions that the West must learn to tolerate the many varieties of Islam, not just its most liberal variant: diversity, he argues, must be accepted and encouraged."  So diversity is more important than survival to them.  They probably don't realize that, given enough tolerance, Islam will forcibly eliminate all diversity worldwide.  These are the sort of people being discussed in the Islam's Useful Idiots article to which I linked earlier.

#29 Zager

new
Zager

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 391 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 05:25 AM

Quote

And this would be your problem .

Cute. Pointless, but cute. Details are everything in politics. Tell me, where did you get your degree in political science from? I got mine from Bishop's University in Quebec.

Quote

And what is the common cause in all of these attacks ?

What makes you think there is a common cause? Religion has always been a justification for terrorists, not a cause.

Quote

Moral Relativism rears its ugly head again. How many of those religions advocate forcible worldwide elimination (or enslavement) of all who will not adhere to it? Islam does.

You obviously know nothing about Islam. The Qu'ran is quite clear that war is only permissable in self-defense.

Quote

I looked through the .pdf document to which you linked. Those people apparently have no understanding as to the nature of Islam

So let me get this straight. You, an anoymous guy on an internet gaming forum, think you know more about international terrorism than an international, non-partisan organization run by people who have devoted their lives to the study of political science?

Quote

So diversity is more important than survival to them.

Twisting meanings of words and phrases, a clear sign of a man who can't prove a point.

Quote

These are the sort of people being discussed in the Islam's Useful Idiots article to which I linked earlier.

Which was also a worthless article, as I pointed out.

#30 DeepOne

new
DeepOne

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 12 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 08:54 AM

Quote

Zager:  Tell me, where did you get your degree in political science from? I got mine from Bishop's University in Quebec.

I think you should ask for a refund.  If you must know, I have no such oxymoronic degree (and wouldn't want one).  My degree is in electronics engineering technology - more of a real science.  I wouldn't be surprised if you were still in diapers when I graduated as a valedictorian.  Of course, our personal details are not really relevant to the subject at hand.  I wouldn't expect anyone to take anything either of us says at face value.  I want them to investigate Islamic scripture for themselves.  That is how they will know that my assertions are correct - not because it was I who made them.

Quote

What makes you think there is a common cause? Religion has always been a justification for terrorists, not a cause.

Once again, because I have read Islamic scripture.  You apparently haven't.  You seem to be parroting what you've been told in a classroom or read in a textbook.

Quote

The Qu'ran is quite clear that war is only permissable in self-defense.

The Qur'an says a lot of things, and it isn't exactly "quite clear" about many of them (the Sunnah is more clear).  It has so many contradictions, that Islam has a doctrine of abrogation to explain them.

Is Islam a Peace-loving Religion?

Yes, I realize that anything which contradicts your preconceptions is worthless to you, but I thought others might be interested.

Quote

You, an anoymous guy on an internet gaming forum, think you know more about international terrorism than an international, non-partisan organization run by people who have devoted their lives to the study of political science?

Either I know more about Islam than they do, or they are lying about Islam.  I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and suspect the former.  I've noticed that a lot of the academic "ivory tower" types develop a high level of unwarranted arrogance and end up thinking they know a lot more than they actually know.

#31 Matri

new
Matri

    Official Love Nest Mascot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 576 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 August 2006 - 12:22 PM

View PostZager, on 11th August 2006, 11:00am, said:

Such a bold statement. Such a false statement. Every single religion in existence today has extremist members. Christianity, Islaim, Judaism, Hinduism, hell, even Budhism has produced terrorists.

Please do not take only parts of my quote to fit your argument. I never denied that the others have not done so. I stated that Islam is the only one STILL doing it.
"Never be normal!" - Ron Stoppable

MechQuest. Get your mecha RPG fix.
Star Citizen.

#32 Zager

new
Zager

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 391 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 02:30 PM

Quote

Once again, because I have read Islamic scripture. You apparently haven't. You seem to be parroting what you've been told in a classroom or read in a textbook.

What makes you the final word on Islamic scripture? There's a hell of a lot of other scholars out there who disagree with your interpretation, and they study it and other religions professionally. Why should I take the word of an amateur over that of a professional?

Quote

Is Islam a Peace-loving Religion?

http://www.globalexc...islammyths.html
http://www.islamweb....x...1&thelang=E
http://muslim-canada.org/tolerance.htm

Quote

Yes, I realize that anything which contradicts your preconceptions is worthless to you, but I thought others might be interested.

You're saying this to me? That's a laugh.

Quote

Either I know more about Islam than they do, or they are lying about Islam. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and suspect the former. I've noticed that a lot of the academic "ivory tower" types develop a high level of unwarranted arrogance and end up thinking they know a lot more than they actually know.

Acadaemic ivory tower? Are you an idiot? The Club of Madrid is composed primarly of former heads of government. People with real experience in the international political system.

Quote

I never denied that the others have not done so. I stated that Islam is the only one STILL doing it.

The terrorist groups I mentioned exist today.

#33 Blehm 98

new
Blehm 98

    former bf2 pro... left because of hitreg...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 291 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 11 August 2006 - 04:18 PM

You still ignore the fact that almost all terrorism is in the name of a religion, but not for a religion.  Islam is the only religion right now that does terrorism specifically for a religious purpose, be it killing infidels, coverting infidels, gaining land, etc.

There isn't another terrorist organization i know of that does terrorism just for their religion, and their religion only
I was this *---* close to being a bf2 pro player, but i left because of my internet and hitreg...  meh.  Just plain meh

#34 Accounting Troll

new
Accounting Troll

    Bridge troll

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,060 posts
  • Location:Wales

Posted 11 August 2006 - 06:00 PM

Gentlemen, let's not start insulting each other.

I think there is more to the fighting going on in Lebanon than simple religious intolerance.  Many Lebanese citizens blamed Hezbollah in the early days of the fighting, although it was not safe to openly blame Hezbollah.  Also, the Lebanese government has so far managed to avoid commiting the Lebanese army to the fighting against Israel, even though they could have argued that it is necessary to protect the lives of Lebanese civilians.

#35 DeepOne

new
DeepOne

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 12 posts

Posted 11 August 2006 - 11:07 PM

Quote

Zager:
What makes you the final word on Islamic scripture?
I don't think you have been reading (or comprehending) what I've been writing.  I don't want anyone to simply take my word (or anyone else's word) for it.  I want them to investigate Islamic scripture for themselves.  It's not all that difficult to do.  I decided that it was important to me to know whether all these Muslim terrorists were driven by their religion or not.  Someone as interested in politics as you seem to be should know that people are not always honest when expressing their political views (they may have something to hide, for example).  Those last links you posted were filled with lies, half-truths, and other twisting of facts.  If there's one good thing about this subject, it is that "holy scriptures" exist which any literate person can examine to determine for himself who is telling the truth about Islam.  If all you know about Islam is what other people are saying about it, then you don't necessarily have any facts - just a collection of opinions.  Choosing the opinions which appeal to you and maintaining a death grip on them in spite of real evidence to the contrary is extremely foolish.

#36 Crazy Gringo

new
Crazy Gringo

    War is hell and war never changes therefore hell never changes

  • Site Staff
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 512 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albertslund, Denmark

Posted 12 August 2006 - 06:26 AM

View PostAccounting Troll, on 11th August 2006, 8:00pm, said:

Gentlemen, let's not start insulting each other.
Well put, AT.
My thoughts boil down to this when read through your arguement (ignoring the personal mudslinging and general badmouthing).

Quote

'Assumptions is the mother of all screwups.' Wehtern's Law.
.
One can assume a lot of things about the world around oneself. But without 'knowing' if your assumptions is correct things 'can' be wrong and lead to the so-called 'screwup'.
I have seen it again and again throughout my 30ish year long life when people assume and blindly believe that they are right about something in a given situation when I have 'known' that they were wrong.
So when assumptions becomes ingrown beliefs without the proper knowledge then the recipe for the 'screwup' is quite certain.
None of us in this forum as all of the knowledge needed to fully comprehend the situation in the Middle East. So we make a lost of guesses and assume a lot of things while flinging informations at each other that only adds to the mountain of information that we are being bombarded by through the media and our surroundings.
I believe that what you believe is your choice. But trying to enforce your beliefs on your surroundings without spreading the proper knowledge as well is just another screwup waiting to happen.
Words to live by from Sergent Gunnery Highway: ' You adapt, improvise and overcome!'

'To kill a dream it is not enough to kill the dreamer', -Quote by Crazy Gringo until proven otherwise.

Mental Father of Air Morelman and Air Wargot!

Official StrategyCore UFO: Afterlight previewer. Preview here!

Has joined the league of 'The Crazy 8800s'




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users