Female soldiers VS Male soldiers


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#1 GuiJay

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 04:05 AM

Hello!

I'm just wondering... I noticed that female soldiers have less HP, less carry capacity and move slower with equivalent stats and skill (that is, a lvl 1 female soldier with average health has 900 hit points and a male has 1000 hit points, i.e.). Do the females have a hidden "bonus" somewhere that I've missed?

If not, could someone make a mod to fix this so that they are equals ._.

(my theory is that the female use the psionic's stats which are lower than human male and cyborg. That or that my game is bugged somehow)

#2 HARD_Sarge

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 08:29 AM

I think you need to do some more checking

I see men with 800 hit points, and women with 1000, it all depends on there Hit point levels to begin with

(I can recuit a level 5 Female with 720 hit points)

#3 GuiJay

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 07:20 PM

Yes, men with "Poor" health will have 800 hit points, women with "Poor" health will have 720 hit points - they consistantly have less hit point.

Also, try out the carrying capacity - get a men and a women with the same strenght, will power and carrying capacity, load them up with the same items. You'll notice that the woman's load % is higher.

Running speed is also slower for the women - though this is kind of harder to check, just get a man and a woman with the same running speed, same agility, same load %, get them next to each other and send them running a distance at the same time. The man will reach his destination faster.

That's why I'm wondering if the women don't have some sort of intangible bonus I haven't seen - like higher accuracy or stronger psionics. I just think it would be totally unfair if they simply were "weaker".

#4 Jh316

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 12:25 AM

Shouldn't women have higher HP? They have a higher pain tolerance.

#5 GuiJay

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 07:00 AM

If anything, they should be equal...

#6 Martian base commander

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 08:26 PM

Well I feel I need to post my opinion here,and im sure its going to upset some people,namely Feminists,but its been proven through human history that male humans are physically stronger and more able to cope with physical trauma over their female counterparts,which is why men usually have broader chests and a heavier skeletal structure.In battle men also cope with the mental stress better than women too.HOWEVER,in RARE cases this has sometimes been reversed,with exceptional women like Queen Boudica of the ancient Britons,who was a fierce warrior and even scared the mightiest of male warriors in battle,with her shock of red hair and fierce blue eyes,apparently she was over 6ft and very muscular too,typical for a Celt.
So if there are ANY physical advantages with men over women in this game it is accurate in MY opinion,and the developers did well to see this.
On the other hand,women have often been looked upon (even revered) for having a profound spiritual aura about them,you might even say divine in some cases,and so a high Psionics score would be realistic.

In a nutshell:There ARE differences between men and women and indeed with different races too if you care to read into it.We are NOT equal and nature INTENDED this to be so.Piss around with nature and its only right that nature punish those who abandoned or attempted to change it.

Apologies for my rather radical views here,but sometimes these things need to be said,instead of being afraid to speak your mind in this hated liberal society.

This was not directed at ANYONE,it was just one of my humble opinions regarding life :(
For those wanting to delve deeper into UFOAL and learn advanced strategies etc , visit my own UFOAL group at -  http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/the_uf...ecreation_dome/

#7 infael

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 02:32 PM

I agree with Riley. The hard facts are there. That's not to say that men and women can't cross over (male nurses and female CEOs). There are tasks that men are better suited for and vice versa.

I understand and acknowledge this.

#8 GuiJay

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 09:24 PM

So this brings me back to my first question: do female soldiers have some other bonus which are not evident (maybe, better psionic resistence?) or are they just plain "weaker" than male soldiers?

If so, why put females in the first place?

Though it's true that men tend to be physicaly stronger than women, let's not forget that this is a game and that it's all directed by a very to-the-point philosophy (or should be). If Males are better soldiers than Females, why put females at all?

I still think normal humans, male or female, should be equal. It makes no sense then to recruit female soldiers if they are just plain weaker.

Before you all bear down on me, saying that real-life women can be as good soldiers as men, or that real-life women ARE physicaly weaker, I'll tell you this: YES, real-life women. This is a game. They should be equal. Don't talk to me about realism in a game about a post-apocalyptic alien invasion.

#9 komplex

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 05:57 PM

Well said Riley!

Also I never noticed it before my only female is my psionic.. im such a stat whore in these games I have only used and recruited personal of the highest stats per lvl.. Its not like I did it on Purpose and didn't realize it till I read this but I only have men (minus my psi) in both squads..   :(  hmmm theres something to be said about that..

#10 Acth

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 06:27 PM

Well, I had the impression that human resourses were in short supply and that, in the effort to save the earth, you would take anyone who volunteered. So, the female recruits are available to you. As to whether you recruit and use them, that's up to you as commander.

Personally, I'm pleased to see the difference in stats..so many games try to be PC by having equal stats or by compensating to make them even.

#11 GuiJay

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 07:06 PM

And there again... it's a computer game and there is no shortage of human ressource - just reload the diplomacy screen to get a new recruit roster.

Again, it brings us back to the same question: If female have been made weaker fighters, why have them at all?

Since you can
A) Only recruit males and
B) You can reload the diplomacy screen to get a new roster of possible recruit as often as you like.

There is no shortage of male fighters. Why even have female fighters if all you're going to do is look at them?

It's not about being politicaly correct, it's about have a game element make sense. At the current, it just doesn't make sense.

Try to separate real life from game mechanics, people  :(

#12 Zager

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 06:00 AM

Quote

Well I feel I need to post my opinion here,and im sure its going to upset some people,namely Feminists,but its been proven through human history that male humans are physically stronger and more able to cope with physical trauma over their female counterparts,which is why men usually have broader chests and a heavier skeletal structure.

Are you familiar with the concept of a bell curve?

Quote

In battle men also cope with the mental stress better than women too.

Now that's just a steaming load of BS. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever backing up this claim, and a significant amount of evidence agaisnt it. The IDF certainly doesn't have any problems with conscripting female soldiers and having them serve in combat positions.

Quote

indeed with different races too if you care to read into it

BS. There is no genetic evidence whatsoever backing that up. There is more genetic variation within a racial group than between them.

#13 GuiJay

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 11:30 PM

Guys, guys. That's exactly where I -didn't- want to go.

I don't want to discuss real-life men and women and whatnot (this will only lead to flames and burning)

I'm talking about Game men and Game women soldiers - why is one weaker than the other? Do the women have an added bonus to make up for it? If not, if they're simply weaker, why do they even exists?

#14 Darkon

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 11:04 AM

Okay, in the game there is a difference between men and woman.
They may not be equal but each have strengths and weaknesses.

I was sifting through the game files a few days ago, can't remember which one though, but one of the files had the stat & ability adjustments for the different races and sexes.
I remember because I noticed that the differences between humans and cyborgs was alot smaller than I would have beleived. Anyway I did notice that woman had less hitpoints and strength than men, but they had their own bonuses, I beleive it was psionics and either agility or dexterity can't be sure though.

But, the point of the matter is that they are different, and each have bonuses over the other.
I'm gonna open up the gamedata again once I have added the new patch, and I'll try to remember to check and give you the exact stats.

#15 LXC

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 04:57 PM

Here is the part about Male and Female human in the file subrace.txt

Quote

ListOfSubRace ARRAY 36
    SubSubRace RECORD
      id INT 1
      name STR "Male"
      base_hp INT 1000
      stun_rec INT 20
      _race_name STR "Humans"
      detection STR "human"
      head INT 1
      arm INT 0
      leg INT 0
      target_body_parts INT 1
      kneeling INT 1
      prone INT 1
      ladder INT 1
      stair INT 1
      _base_armour_name STR "Human body"
      equip_name STR "Human"
      humanoid INT 1
      visible FLT 1
      infra FLT 1
      noise_still FLT 0.25
      noise_move FLT 1
      psi FLT 1
      hearbeat FLT 1
      poison_sensitive INT 1
      base_speed FLT 17.6
      carrying_capacity INT 15
      skeleton STR "tactical/anims/ufohumanoid/computed.txt"
      size FLT 1
      height FLT 2
      sound_step STR "Legs_Soft"
      sound_body STR "Body_Soft"
      signmutant INT 0
      exclam_id INT 1
      _technology_name STR "Initial knowledge"
      gloss_model STR "share/models/interface/opt/ufopedia/unit/controlmale.txt"
    END_OF_SubSubRace
    SubSubRace RECORD
      id INT 2
      name STR "Female"
      base_hp INT 900
      stun_rec INT 30
      _race_name STR "Humans"
      detection STR "human"
      head INT 1
      arm INT 0
      leg INT 0
      target_body_parts INT 1
      kneeling INT 1
      prone INT 1
      ladder INT 1
      stair INT 1
      _base_armour_name STR "Human body"
      equip_name STR "Human"
      humanoid INT 1
      visible FLT 0.9
      infra FLT 1
      noise_still FLT 0.2
      noise_move FLT 0.75
      psi FLT 1
      hearbeat FLT 1
      poison_sensitive INT 1
      base_speed FLT 16
      carrying_capacity INT 13
      skeleton STR "tactical/anims/ufowoman/computed.txt"
      size FLT 0.9
      height FLT 2
      sound_step STR "Legs_Soft"
      sound_body STR "Body_Soft"
      signmutant INT 0
      exclam_id INT 2
      _technology_name STR "Unresearchable technology"
      gloss_model STR "share/models/interface/opt/ufopedia/unit/controlna.txt"
    END_OF_SubSubRace

To summarize a Male compared to a Female:
100 more hit points.
10 points less stun recovery rate? Might be more instead of less, not sure.
0.1 points more visible.
0.05 points more noise when still.
0.25 points more noise when moving.
1.6 points more base speed.
2 points more carrying capacity.
0.1 points smaller in size. I'm gussing this means the model size.

#16 Kret

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 09:36 PM

I wonder if the size value influences the chance of being hit. If it does it means that human females are slightly harder to hit.

Anyway, those differences could be taken into account when hiring/training units. You could harness the stealth capabilities of the female humans by training them as scouts or stalkers and the male humans's added capacity and HP as leaders and gunmen. Or go the other way round to try and offset their weaknesses.
There's always some dirt to dig out

#17 GuiJay

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 10:44 PM

Ha! Thanks! This is what I was wondering about!

So it seems they do have bonuses... although "hidden" ones that are not visible from within the game.

So, I guess the females "are" snipers and scouts. (not that I don't use them for anything in my game anyway, the game isn't so hard as to need to emphasis each soldier's strenght - it's not even hard enough to require the use of training)

#18 Darkon

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 07:10 AM

View PostGuiJay, on 9th January 2006, 10:44pm, said:

.... anyway, the game isn't so hard as to need to emphasis each soldier's strenght - it's not even hard enough to require the use of training)

Yeah, try saying that after playing with the alienassault mod on hard!

"7 of us and 50 of them....... Do you think we should give them a chance to surrender?"

#19 GuiJay

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 10:45 PM

well, of course, if you mod the game to be more difficult... but it's not exactly the same game anymore, is it? It becomes Alien Assault Aftershock :lovetammy:

#20 Darkon

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 07:40 AM

View PostGuiJay, on 10th January 2006, 10:45pm, said:

well, of course, if you mod the game to be more difficult... but it's not exactly the same game anymore, is it? It becomes Alien Assault Aftershock :lovetammy:


Hmm...... playing an unmodded game, what must that be like.

I mod every game I play, makes em more fun.




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