Global Warming

[Accounting Troll]

This story shows that the Siberian permafrost is melting rapidly, causing global warming to increase as methane hydrates are released into the atmosphere.

 

As a species we seem to have gone from pretending to ourselves that global warming isn't happening directly to telling ourselves that it's too late to stop it, so there's no point in doing anything about it. Wait until Birmingham becomes the English Riviera...

[Skonar]

As far as I'm aware, back in 1600andsomething they used to grow wine in England somewhere.

 

There have been some pretty radical long term weather changes before.

[Accounting Troll]

The Thames also used to freeze up in London. It's been a long time since people last held a winter fair on the Thames. It's only in the last couple of centuries that we have had the power to affect the global environment, and we haven't exactly acted responsibly.

 

What annoys me is that the evidence is there that we seem to get new evidence of how we're messing up the planet every few days, but noone seems to want to do anything about it. The few cuts in greenhouse gas emissions have been entirely down to the desire of corporations to save money by becoming more efficient.

 

My prediction is that there will be no real change until there is a major environmental disaster, like the whole of the Netherlands becoming flooded. Then national governments will issues some panic laws to disguise the fact that it will be too late to do anything to head off a massive increase in global warming that will cause hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people to die.

[sir-roosio]

Although I do agree that the human race is slowly screwing up the planet, I also think it's worth noting the fact that the earth has never had a stable climate!

 

Firstly, is it any suprise that the world is gradually warming when we are technically still in an Ice Age? If the earth is in an ice age, then surely it will eventually come out of it?

 

Temporary periods of climate change have been recorded, or discovered throughout history, take for examples Europes 17th centruy Mini ice age that contributed to the superior quality of stradavarious violins.

 

It's possible that the current gradual warming of the Earth is purely a natural event, it's equally possible that it's a natural event that has been speeded up by human activity, or, as popular opinion suggests, it may be all our fault. However if the current wave of concern over how we can affect the planet has been bought to the fore by these events then at least thats a silver lining!.

 

What REALLY annoys me, however, is old gits in my local region who campaign religiously against the introduction of wind farms. The three people interviewed on this link are typical examples. A bunch of middle-aged do-gooders spouting lyrical about the 'patchwork quilt' of the country side, who'll all be dead long before the oil runs out and the atmosphere turns black.

 

I live in the remotest little back-end village you have ever seen, I have stunning views in every direction, and absolutely adore everything about the countryside. I also appreciate that if we don't do something pretty damn quick it will be too late. Windfarms may not be the ideal long-term solution, but they're a tried and tested form of renewable energy that can be erected in many suitable places thorughout rural britain. They may not be enough to supply our entire power requirments, but for every one thats up and running, it's a little bit of pressure taken of the non-remewable energy suppliers.

 

And personally i think that this

https://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/04/uk_enl_1095764311/img/laun.jpg

 

Looks a damn site better than these monstrosities that already littler the coutryside, yet no-one complained about cos they were all far to desperate to get a toaster!

https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/exhibitions/energy/media/images/46pylon.jpg

 

As far as I'm aware, back in 1600andsomething they used to grow wine in England somewhere.

There have been some pretty radical long term weather changes before.

 

Still are my friend, Check them out!

[Accounting Troll]

I'm with you on wind farms. I wonder about how the people who feel that wind farms detract from the beauty of the countryside feel about this. Are they willing to see their taxes go up to pay for all the problems associated with nuclear power?

 

My concern about climate change is the suffering it will cause for millions of people. The 13th century saw warm summers and mild winters. The population of Europe increased greatly and marginal land was cultivated to support the growing population. Then Europe experienced a cooling cycle in the early to mid 14th century. The land could not support the large population, and starvation became commonplace. This was why the plague outbreak in the middle of the century was so devestating: years of malnutritioun had weakened peoples immune systems, so they were ready to drop like flies.

[Blehm 98]

As long as you build them right a nuclear power plant produces tons of energy, just you need to take care of them correctly and take care of any problems or you will have a mega problem

 

Here in America everyone was saying how evil nuclear power is, and now they all hate Wind farms as "They could hurt the birds."

 

I think Global Warming is garbage, yes, we're not completely innocent, we probably do have the smallest bit in it, but we're mostly in the planetary climate cycle, 40 years ago everyone was saying how we're going into an Ice age. So i think global warming will continue for some time, then it will start wavering back and forth, and then start dropping for another Ice Age

[sir-roosio]

The 13th century saw warm summers and mild winters. The population of Europe increased greatly and marginal land was cultivated to support the growing population

 

And what caused this climate change? there was no specific 'cause' it was just a natural event.

 

Green activists at the time probably said it was that fault of all those ships sailing off to the crusades using up all the wind and leaving none to cool the world down

 

I believe there is no one answer to providing all our needs through renewable energy. It will be a group effort.

 

Firstly, I think there should be a conceeted effort to erect a decent number of wind farms (see above)

 

Small local power supply plants such as This one (apologies for the strap line!) near me should be set up. Other schemes could use tidal flow, wave power, geothermal (dont think this option is particularly viable in the UK) and other sources as the loacal surroundings provide.

 

Every house should be encouraged to erect a few solar panels and PV cells, such as This Scheme which provides a third of all the energyu needed for 25 flats.

 

Although not completely self sufficient Heat Pumps produce 3-4 times more enrgy in heat than they use in electricity, and can be used to heat your house, or your water. If new homes are fitted with this heating sytem when they're built then energy concumption would drop accordingly.

 

although none of these will fulfill the role of providing all our energy, once you start to combine these factors you start getting near that figure.

 

As long as you build them right a nuclear power plant produces tons of energy, just you need to take care of them correctly and take care of any problems or you will have a mega problem

 

I'm with you, to a point. Nuclear power is a very efficient and safe form of energy production, when done properly. but the waste materials it does produce are highly dangerous, and remain so for a very long time. I dont really like the idea of burying it underground, under the sea, or anywhere else for that matter.

[Kernel]

The problems with wind farms are that they need a backup power source for when the wind stops blowing... that usualy means a powersource than can be turned on and off pretty fast, which at the moment usualy means Gas power stations.

 

Solar power plants have the same problem (the sun only shines during the day), not only that but the photovoltaic cells have an incredibly poor efficency rating, meaning it usualy costs more energy to create them than you ever get back out of them in their useful lifetime.

 

The only RELIABLE (as in continuous power production) non-greenhouse gas emmiting power source at the present time is Nuclear, and as we all know that produces radioactive waste that needs to be gotten rid of.

[Blehm 98]

well, if you took the radioactive material, melted it into glass, and then dropped it into.... say the Mid-atlantic ridge or into one of the.... i think subversion zones they are called or something, they would be sucks under the outer part of the crust and after a few thousand years come back up. Very few creatures would be hurt by that because the bricks drop fast, and unless the creatures eat it or live on it they won't get enough exposure to do anything

 

but convincing the people that it is alright is pretty hard to do

 

Edit: there is also the fact that if we don't do something pretty soon then society will fall apart after the oil is gone. So that is essentially the only thing we can do, no matter what the minor consequences may be

 

the other alternative is to build space stations that have solar cells, because in space, there is no atmosphere to block the sunlight and its energy. After that it could be made into Radio or Micro waves and beamed down onto earth, say, in the middle of Death valley, the Mojave (sp?) Desert, or some other unihabited place where towers could be constructed that will convert the waves into usable power. That would work very well, as long as the field is big enough, there would be no side-effects other than a deaths for the birds and any animals that venture out during the wrong time, but overall it is definately worth it and leaves no long term affects whatsoever

 

what a long edit, huh

[Kernel]

What would probably be better with the space thing is a giant space mirror to reflect light down to a solar power station. Similar to the liquid salt power stations currently in various desert. The hot liquid salt is used to heat water to create steam which is used in the normal power generation way. They've even found a way to store the hot liquid salt for later use, for when no solar energy can be collected, they can only store it for a few hours though.

[Matri]

Ahh, cold fusion... The science-fiction of science-fiction writers...

[Blehm 98]

well, yeah, Cold Fusion is the Holy Grail of technology, but unless our scientists get their arses in gear, we'll have a little bit to wait

 

however, i think that my above two ideas on powering the earth will work UNTIL we can get Cold Fusion, once we get cold fusion we have the best energy source i think we currently know of (unless you draw on Dark Energy, but thats not going to be even in the intermediate future)

[FullAuto]

I'm sorry, I know there are obviously more and less harmful ways to dump toxic waste, but you will never convince me making it and dumping it anywhere is a good idea.

 

On a side note, those pylons always remind me of some sort of steampunk Wicker Man. I always expect to see them stuffed full of people and set on fire.

[Matri]

Let's see how the ITER plant turns out.

 

EDIT: Cold Fusion. I dunno, I'm still somewhat skeptical, though interested.

Edited August 18, 2005 by Matri

[sir-roosio]

the other alternative is to build space stations that have solar cells, because in space, there is no atmosphere to block the sunlight and its energy. After that it could be made into Radio or Micro waves and beamed down onto earth

 

It is actually perfectley feasible to tow a very long extension lead up to the space station.

 

However, if any one trips on the lead and puls it out at the other end, your going up to plug it back in, OK??

 

Plus, I'd hate to be the one who has to untangle any 5-mile knots in it!

[Kernel]

and then there's the promblem with the cheese wire effect as it slices through the atmosphere at several thousand miles an hour. What ever you do... don't get in it's way...

 

Hmm... but if the ISS was in a geo-syncronus orbit... then it might work.

[Blehm 98]

yes, that would be the problem with a cable actually

 

I still think that beaming it down would be better, although, like i said, anything in between the satellite and the atennae its aiming for will be cooked, including planes, birds, animals on the ground, and, most frightening, people... Or in other words, if this is used by any untrustworthy people they have a... well, they could have something actually close to a death ray from space thing.

[Kernel]

something actually close to a death ray from space thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cool.

I want one... sure beats those sharks with fricken laser beams on their foreheads.

[sir-roosio]

I was presuming a geo-sychronus orbit for the lead. though when it finished with I suppose you could knock it out of obit to wind the cable up!

 

So one huge extension lead coming down from outer space, to a singel power point on Earth, can you imagine the shit load of Double-adaptors you'd have to use to plug everything in?????

 

Of course the other option would be to use the earths rotation to power something akin to those dynamo lights that everyone had on their push-bikes in the 1970's. . . . Yeah, that would work!

[Kernel]

The only catch would be everyone one on the planet would have to keep running west to stop the earth from slowing down. Like the hamster in a wheel...... :mad:

[sir-roosio]

So you see. . .The loss of oil, AND the rising levels of obesity sorted in one easy move! We should all be in charge of the UN!

[Crazy Gringo]

Okay. Okay.

Since the subject already is here let me just update it a little bit.

Headlines in todays paper claims that global warming are to blame for disasters....

It's says that the british of all people claim that because of global warming the weather is being more aggressive as in more storms....

So the british PM, Tony Blair for a broad agrement to reduce CO2-emissions, which he would like to talk to the G8 nations about....

 

Haven't we already been through this little stint with the Tokyo-protocol that the US so beautiful like an elephant in a china store refused to sign?

[Gungadin]

The problem is, there are many scientists who believe that there's actually no problem at all with global warming. Whether this is what they actually believe or if they're in the pay of large corporations I cannot say, but it gives large corporations someone to point to and say "See? Mr. BurnTree says that pollution is actually GOOD for the environment! So there. Now get out of the way so's I can chop down that rainforest and benfit the environment." Remember Bjørn Lomborg?

[Crazy Gringo]

I do remember Bjørn Lomborg. He was not a man he was an instrument. And that Institue for Enviromental Assesment that he was commander and chief for should NEVER have come into being.

 

If you want to assess the enviroment like they did then they should take a long walk into deep forests where the rapid and hungry grizzly bears roam....But that would the polluting the enviroment.

 

You can take the smallest piece of information and create an entire industry that has that sole purpose to write reports about that smallest piece of information. And it is this industry that presses the scientist to come with some at times feeble statements based on some new small piece of information about the enviroment.

 

Global warming might have some shortterm benefits but at what cost in the long run....

[FullAuto]

Problem is, some of the cold countries love it. Russia will get a whole new economy if global warming keeps up. And America just will not reduce pollution. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when the oil runs out.