FullAuto Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 I'll be moderating this forum, so normally I'll merely watch topics and only stick my nose in if someone gets too big for their boots, but this time...I've watched some films recently, and found some people levelling claims at them. Such films as 'Black Hawk Down', 'Hero' in particular have caught my attention, or rather, the things people have said about them have caught my attention. Anyone know any particularly blatant examples of propaganda in films? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughter Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Well, I find the "United States president saving his country from the evil aliens on the 4th of July" in Independence Day very amusing. Only thing more amusing is the people that do not catch the irony/humour Not really propaganda, but close enough to fit this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Please, no one mention Rambo 3! Dedicated to the brave people of Afghanistan or somesuch! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accounting Troll Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Animal Farm (book and film) was a direct attack on communism, in particular the way it was falling short of the ideals of the revolutionaries. I would also like to nominate Braveheart. Scottish atrocities against the English and each other were glossed over, while Edward I of England was turned into Darth Vadar. It was so blatent, I was expecting him to say "William Wallace, YOU are my son" In reality, Edward I was no more cruel than any other king of the time. Mel Brooks would have done a better job than Mel Gibson. It wouldn't have been any more accurate, but at least we would have got some laughs out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughter Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 In reality, Edward I was no more cruel than any other king of the time.No more cruel surely doesn't mean nice... I think Mel Gibson did very well, and Braveheart is one of my favourite movies. May not be historically correct, but it is brutal, well acted and beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 It's a good film, but nothing much to do with history.Can anyone name a monarch, or indeed, any ruler, that has been 'nice'? You don't get to power, and keep it, by being a good human being. You have to be a horrible bastard. The more brutal the times, the bigger a bastard you have to be.I don't think Animal Farm was a critique of Communism itself, it was a lot more concerned with how those in power used it to their own ends instead of for the good of the people.Not that there's any other system of government that doesn't do that.I heard someone once mention 'Spiderman' when propaganda was brought up. Apparently it was supposed to be an allegory for America "With great power comes great responsibility" or whatever it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accounting Troll Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Edward II tried being nicer than his father, and he ended up suffering a rather nastier death than any other king in English history. When Roger Mortimer ordered his henchmen to start heating up the poker I suspect Edward II wished he had been more ruthless with his enemies... I have heard that the new War of the Worlds film is a criticism of current American foreign policy. I just hope they haven't made it too blatent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Bob Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Well, I find the "United States president saving his country from the evil aliens on the 4th of July" in Independence Day very amusing. What did the president do? The world was saved by a computer geek, black air force pilot, and an ex-military redneck. Your statement makes a perfect point that the president always gets too much of the credit. >_< J/k Can anyone name a monarch, or indeed, any ruler, that has been 'nice'? You don't get to power, and keep it, by being a good human being. You have to be a horrible bastard. The more brutal the times, the bigger a bastard you have to be. I've yet to read much bad about Abraham Lincoln... But I suppose your point sticks, since the man was killed and could not effectively 'keep' his power. >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomb Bloke Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 I don't watch many films, but I read a fair few web comics. Dork Tower makes jabs at the latest Star Wars movie for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 The latest mini-series here in the states on Abraham Lincoln made a claim that he was a closet homosexual as well as being mentally insane. I knew that Abraham Lincoln supposedly suffered from depression at times. But the homosexual charge was a new one to me, whether it is true or not. Every person, every religion, and every government has flaws. And, when it comes to people, religion, and governments, there are good people and bad people, good religions and bad religions, and good governments and bad governments. When people, religion, or government start espousing murder and genocide, then I tend to classify them in the bad or evil category. The Dune Books and the Dune Movies seem to have a lot to say about religion, politics, and people, and I find them interesting. And, it seems like when it comes to books such as the Bible and the Koran, you can find propaganda for and against every topic under the sun. It's amazing, but it seems that every book and every idea and every movie can be twisted for or against anything that you want to support or to rebutt. If it is controversial, then there is evidence for and against it almost everywhere, otherwise it wouldn't be controversial. Since everything you experience in the media will both support and refute your favorite ideas, it's left up to the individual to pick out and keep the best stuff while letting the other stuff go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Granted, but I was asking specifically for obvious works of proaganda.And there are good governments? Really? Where? I think there are bad governments, and governments that haven't gotten around to it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Bob Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 The latest mini-series here in the states on Abraham Lincoln made a claim that he was a closet homosexual as well as being mentally insane. Perhaps it takes insanity for good people to end up in the White House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 So what if he indulged in man-love? Or was crazy? He was still a fine leader, by anyone's measure, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Bob Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Clearly not by "anyone". He was assassinated after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Yes, but I bet if they were honest they'd admit he was a good leader. He was killed by Confederate sympathisers, wasn't he? Or am I thinking of the wrong President? Just heard about a possible new Spielberg film focusing on Israeli retribution following the terrorist attack on the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich. I think it's going to go very very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomb Bloke Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 I get the impression that being a good leader is more likely to get you killed then otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 If you're just another incompetent, nobody cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accounting Troll Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 I would take that documentary with a pinch of salt. I've known writers of books and documentaries to exaggerate a flaw in a historical character or recently deceased celebrity to create a 'revelation' in the hope of attracting some interest in his work. Don't forget that the trend for politicians to claim that their rivals are liars, drunks, madmen or idiots is hardly recent. Also, attitudes towards homosexuals were a lot more hostile in the 19th century than they are today. If Abraham Lincoln's political opponents, including those in his own party, made it look as if he was homosexual, he would have been severely discredited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Bob Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I recall a documentary on the History Channel that said that Hitler was gay. The next week, on the same channel, I watched a show called "Hitler's Women". History is full of lies and deciet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir-roosio Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I recall a documentary on the History Channel that said that Hitler was gay.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, so thats who Albert Hall was? I think that western entertainment is full of propaganda, however it's got to a stage where it's so subtle that we don't notice. Unlike 'Comical Ali' the Iraqi information minister, who was obviously telling crap, out news services and government tend to just describe thing in a subtley favourable light. Anyway, films. Air Force One, the bit where Dean Stockwell hands the Vice president (Glenn Close) a piece of paper to sign handing power over to her as the President is deemed to be under duress and unable to make effective desisions (due to being stuck on his plane with a bunch of armed terrorists and his family at gunpoint, you know, nothing major) and she refuses. . .oooo that bit riles me something chronic "believe in your president America, He'll always pull through" Consequenbtly, because of her actions, somebody who would have spent a long time in Jail serving the rest of his deserved sentence, gets shot in the back with an AK instead(ohh those 7.62 rounds sting)! Nice one Cruella! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 How about U-571? The real thing happened before the US even entered WWII. And not a Brit in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir-roosio Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 ohh, Thats something I love doing! Watch an action film, and make a note of how many peoples deaths are caused through the hero doing something he shouldn't. Just because the hero never (or hardly ever) directly kills anyone, and the bad guys blow up the car, destroy the building, fire automatic rounds into a crowded street, it happens because they are chasing the hero. Theres a jet li film (can't remember what it's called) where (because all his family get killed and he wants revenge. . .suprise suprise) he needs to get into a skyscraper where the terror group are holding hostages, so he flies a helicopter up to the winbdow, it gets shot, and he crashes through the window killing loads of innocent people! IT'S ALL HIS FAULT!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Meltdown, I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir-roosio Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Pearl Harbour. The American guy joins Eagle Squadron, and in the one combat sequence you see, he downs about 6 planes in one sortie! The guy becomes an ace on one mission! I didn't think the spitfire even carried that much ammo! It just seems to stink of unrealism and suggest that Americans are a superhuman warrior race (maybe you are? Americans, have your say here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullAuto Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I laughed all the way through that film. Especially when he was dying at the end and he was going "So...cold..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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