232 replies to this topic

[Space Voyager]

I still can't understand that this damn polyurethane is so useful and all-terrain applicable.

[Zombie]

Polyurethane really can be used for anything, and it's preferred most times too. I guess some points to make about it would be helpful:

• Wears like iron, aka, it's durable. Whereas latex paint would chip or shred off if you dragged something hard or heavy over it, polyurethane would resist that action.
  
• It's glossy and nonporous surface can be washed time and time again with little wear and resists staining. I wash that long table in the backroom about three times a week and it still looks great, plus it doesn't absorb stain causing materials.
  
• Has a thick film which allows you to fill in cracks and create a totally smooth surface in 1-2 coats. Latex paint has some of these properties, but takes a long time to dry with a very thick film, and oil paint has a thin film which requires multiple coats which puts something out of commission for a while.
  
• It's waterproof. Need I say more? Plus it kinda beads up water making cleanup easy.

The only thing it really isn't good for is walls (more like drywall or porous materials like wood). I use polyurethane for wood but have to prime it with latex paint first because it'll soak into the grain otherwise (it's oil based).

So yeah, the stuff is useful and can be used basically anywhere.

- Zombie

[Space Voyager]

Thanks, I really need to take a looong look at this thread when I continue with the house...

What happens if you apply it to wood? It won't dry properly? Two coatings wouldn't help? Good solution with latex paint, though that kinda makes the base less solid, right? Probably not a problem as the outer coating prevents any damage to the base...

Also, I need an advice. If you were to lay the hallway floor in a house, which material would you use? Tiles, vinyl, laminate? I'm looking at vinyl as it is pretty durable as I'm told.

[Zombie]

Space Voyager, on 03 December 2019 - 06:57 AM, said:

What happens if you apply it to wood? It won't dry properly? Two coatings wouldn't help? Good solution with latex paint, though that kinda makes the base less solid, right? Probably not a problem as the outer coating prevents any damage to the base...

You can apply polyurethane to wood no problem. Trouble is, it is usually an oil base which will cause the stuff to soak into the wood and then you will not have a nice uniform glossy finish (the grains of the wood will be dull). That's why I put down a base coat of latex paint first then go over the top of that with the polyurethane - the latex will fill in those pores and prevent the top coat from soaking away. Sure, you can keep piling coat after coat of poly on raw wood and eventually it'll fill in, but the latex saves you all those intermediate steps.

The latex doesn't really make the base less solid. If you use a decent latex for the base coat it should stick just fine and would probably wear fairly good the way it is unless it has heavy stuff dragging over it. And in this case, the polyurethane will be the thing taking the brunt of the activity, which it can handle easily.

Space Voyager, on 03 December 2019 - 06:57 AM, said:

Also, I need an advice. If you were to lay the hallway floor in a house, which material would you use? Tiles, vinyl, laminate? I'm looking at vinyl as it is pretty durable as I'm told.

Hmmm, that really depends on a number of factors. What is the flooring in the other rooms which connect to the hallway? How ornate is the hallway? You don't want to ruin the look of the hallway by using vinyl flooring, especially if it is an entrance hallway. How much use will the hallway get? Are you planning on selling your house in the near future? Do you mind a cold floor? What material are you most comfortable installing?

If it would be up to me, I'd use tile for a very ornate entrance hallway especially if you were planning on selling your house in the next few years. You'll probably get a good return on investment there. For just a normal hallway between rooms, I'd probably go for laminate wood flooring. It wears decent, and installs dirt easy. Here in the US laminate flooring is a big selling feature too. For a back hallway or one that doesn't get seen much or takes heavy wear then vinyl would probably be a good choice.

- Zombie

[Space Voyager]

Yes, I agree, there are a number of factors. I'm not selling and it is a hallway between our living room, bathroom etc.. It will see moderate use.

But I wouldn't count vinyl out just yet. Vinyl floor is used just as laminate, except that it is supposed to be more durable. You're probably referring to the linoleum floor, which CAN be ugly as hell.

Anyway, the tiles in our hallway were laid without the gaps (40 years ago) and have recently risen into a tent-like structure... Naturally, I threw them away but now I'm thinking about what to do with the hallway. Funny though, the cat loves the rough floor.

[Zombie]

Here, I took some pics (December 2) of the boards showing the polyurethane enamel side and the latex back.

The first pic compares the sheen and the other two pics compares the color. The polyurethane is more of a blood red while the latex is kinda pinkish red. In order to get the colors to show better I used a really bright flash and complete darkness in the garage so this is at the extreme end of the lighting spectrum. They look much closer in person and in normal lighting conditions. In the end it will not matter much as everything is getting the polyurethane on it.

Got a rude surprise this afternoon. A picture is worth 1000 words so I took two...

Partial roof collapse of the greenhouse due to two days of snow. It wasn't a lot of snow, just really heavy and wet. Now, I knew this was going to happen eventually as I patched a couple long tears along the poles in the middle this fall. Kinda surprised it held on as long as it did. It's just unfortunate it didn't hold on till after Valentines Day though as the space is basically unusable now. Oh well. But hey, think of the bright side -  you'll get to see how I put on a new plastic top when the weather warms up this spring. Excited?

- Zombie

[Thorondor]

Should the roof come down - furrow not your brow - for Zombie is around!

Holy cow, polyurethane and latex paint colour nuances be danged, how are you going to sort that whole disaster area?!

I assume you're joking about waiting for Spring though. I mean, you're bound to get some reprieve from snowfall for a day or two eventually, I'd imagine.

And at least there doesn't seem to be irreversible damage to what is fundamental - the support structure itself seems salvageable.

[Zombie]

Thorondor, on 14 January 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:

Holy cow, polyurethane and latex paint colour nuances be danged, how are you going to sort that whole disaster area?!

What disaster area? The inside of the greenhouse? Well, I worked on that a little bit today. Thankfully it was above freezing (36-37F or +2-3C?) so nothing was frozen into ice. First I shoveled out the snow from the ground which allowed me to get at the stuff on the tables. Then I knocked off the snow from the wreaths, took the bows and decorations off (those can be reused for next year), piled the wreaths on to my gray cart I fixed this summer and rolled them to the dumpster for disposal.



I used some concrete blocks to hold down the flaps of the top to keep that from getting worse. I'd much rather have the center area with snow than the ends because that's where the doors are.

With the stuff off the tables, I shoveled the snow off them and squeegeed them so they were dry-ish. I needed the tables somewhat dry because the half of the top that was still good yet was starting to peel back from the wind and I wanted to put a ladder on the tables to fix that (polyurethane is very slippery when wet and I don't want to break a leg). I used some clear packaging tape to get the flap attached to the center pole, but remembered I purchased a roll of Gorilla tape recently so I thought that might be better as it's a lot stickier. So I used about a half a roll of that to secure the flap down.



Have no idea if this will hold. Probably will for at least a little bit until it snows heavily again or is super windy. All told I think I spent 2 total hours on this project.

Thorondor, on 14 January 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:

I assume you're joking about waiting for Spring though. I mean, you're bound to get some reprieve from snowfall for a day or two eventually, I'd imagine.

Nope, not joking. Completely serious. Here's the deal: what happens if I somehow get the new top installed and then there's a huge snowfall and the top collapses again? Then we are out of new tops and need to reorder (and these tops aren't exactly cheap if you catch my drift - I think it was something like $400+ per top - 10 mil and UV stabilized with a 7 year life). Also all the snow along the sides of the greenhouse needs to be gone, the ground needs to be somewhat dry, and free from dirt, stones and anything else which might harm the plastic.



That old HVAC unit needs to get removed too (the guys are supposedly coming soon... we shall see). The sheet of plastic isn't just the top, it's a continuous piece that covers the sides too. That's why everything needs to be free from snow. Plus I need at least a day to unscrew the strapping, remove the old plastic and do any maintenance on the structure before installation can occur. Then I need a somewhat warm day (mid to high 40's F so 5-10C) because it's hard to hold on to plastic with gloves on and when your hands are cold. Call me a wussy on that but it goes so much faster when you aren't battling cold fingers and putting on/taking off gloves constantly. And I need a day where I'm not going to be interrupted with other projects (last time I installed the top I did it on a Sunday when I could focus 100% on it). Finally (and this is most important) the day I do this cannot have much wind! If the wind catches the plastic it's like a ginormous sail flapping in the breeze. And it would be nice to have another person there to help (I could maybe call in a favor to the guy that helped me the last time and maybe I can sweet talk the bosses young son into it).

So, long story short, tl;dr: There's more to putting up a new top than you might imagine and the weather has to be decent. The weather just isn't going to cooperate this early in the winter. With that said, I do have the top of the greenhouse from 2010-ish (at least a part of it). Might be able to chuck that over the busted out area and use that to limp us through to spring. It's an option if we have a few nicer days and I have the time.

The major issue is rushing to get it done quickly. You can't do that without cutting corners and making a mistake somewhere or risking the top getting damaged in another snowfall. I've found it best to wait till you can cross your t's, dot your i's, get your ducks in a row and eliminate all possible risks. The top has a listed life of 7 years and I want to do everything I can to get it to last that long. I've had a pretty good track record of getting these tops to last and don't want to mess that up.

Thorondor, on 14 January 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:

And at least there doesn't seem to be irreversible damage to what is fundamental - the support structure itself seems salvageable.

Yep, nothing wrong with the tubing. Just the plastic that tore.

- Zombie

[Thorondor]

Yep, the inside of the greenhouse already shows a significant difference given your intervention, Zombie.

Your explanation also makes the big picture of what - safely - putting in a new top really requires. Numerous things need to come together just right not to waste the effort (and potentially run into more expenses), so I now get why it makes sense to wait it out.

I hope you get a suitable break with the weather so those makeshift repairs with what's left of the old top you mention can be done.

If not, you might perhaps consider instead some temporary way to cover those tabletops to better shield them from the elements.

[Space Voyager]

Damn, the roof collapsing is crap - though I AM excited to see your work, I learn something new with every post you make! Sorry, I'm a bit self-centered.

I hope this incident won't have a huge impact on the shop. You still plan to use the place before the renovation?

[Zombie]

Thorondor, on 15 January 2020 - 09:09 PM, said:

I hope you get a suitable break with the weather so those makeshift repairs with what's left of the old top you mention can be done. If not, you might perhaps consider instead some temporary way to cover those tabletops to better shield them from the elements.

Yeah, if I find a couple scraps of plastic from the old top I could cover up the tables a bit. Trouble is, I'd have to put a ton of bricks or blocks on it to prevent the wind from ripping the plastic right off the tables. (I think some people think it's just the snow we have to deal with in winter. No sir, it's the wind too. It's almost always really strong this time of the year).

So we had another snow storm here yesterday. Something like 6-7 inches (15+cm for sure) and really strong winds too. The greenhouse was filled with snow again and the wind was so strong it ripped the plastic the concrete blocks were sitting on. I did a quick fix and put the blocks on the plastic on top of the middle table to keep it from getting worse. Thankfully, my Gorilla tape fix seems to have held up just fine with all the strong wind blowing into the hole in the top.

Space Voyager, on 16 January 2020 - 10:12 AM, said:

Damn, the roof collapsing is crap - though I AM excited to see your work, I learn something new with every post you make! Sorry, I'm a bit self-centered.

No problem. I'm glad you are interested. It's not very often you get to see a greenhouse top replaced so this is a good opportunity to show how it's done. I'm not exactly an expert in this field as I do it so infrequently (think of the maintenance guys at the big commercial growing operations where they might have to replace a bunch of them every year - hats off to them). That's why I want to get the bosses son to help - it's a great learning experience for him and gives him some experience in case this happens again (heaven forbid).

Space Voyager, on 16 January 2020 - 10:12 AM, said:

I hope this incident won't have a huge impact on the shop. You still plan to use the place before the renovation?

In the winter we just use the greenhouse for storage. For example, I'll fill up the back garage with deliveries for Valentines Day, but in order to fit everything in I usually move some things out to the greenhouse until the deliveries are out. And of course, there are other times where something is in the way and I'll temporarily store it in the greenhouse. Plus all the cardboard boxes that the flowers come in go into the greenhouse (we usually give the bigger ones back to our suppliers and I'll cut the smaller ones in half and staple them for flower arrangement carriers).

So we might still store stuff in the greenhouse but nothing of significance. I'm probably just going to use the smaller garage for storage.

- Zombie

[Thorondor]

Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you, Zombie - continually inclement weather and a busy commercial season in a little under a month to get ready for.

You're really not going to get any rest, particularly with the shoveling end of things in the greenhouse.

Unless you can find some way to make it so that, even if it snows considerably, stuff is safeguarded enough that you can let it sit a while, the extra daily workout is going to be a given in your fitness regimen for the season.

[Zombie]

Shoveling the greenhouse isn't going to be a priority for me as it'll be an uphill battle at this time of the year. So yeah, the snow is going to have to sit for a while and either melt on its own or wait for me to get some time to shovel it out to the driveway to melt. I will try to keep the half under cover clear from snow as much as I can though as both sides are accessible from the doors. It all depends how busy I am and whether or not I get some help (aka the bosses son likes to help me out on projects).

- Zombie