Tinkering with research


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Fraktal

Fraktal

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 17 October 2016 - 08:27 PM

After reading about the alternate laser weapon research order in the Extender, I started thinking of what could be done with the research tree and came up with something I feel is pretty good.

Problem is, I can't find any resource about where project prerequisites are defined. Neither Ufopaedia's articles on RESEARCH.DAT nor Zombie's executable table are forthcoming with that critical piece of information. The Extender's source code is no help either, as the latest-released version of the source code doesn't have the alternate laser research yet. Can anyone help?


In case anyone cares, this is what I'm trying to do (forgot the Hyperwave Decoder, it's immediately after UFO Navigation).

Attached Thumbnails

  • modded research tree.png


#2 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 18 October 2016 - 01:46 AM

Research.dat is part of your game saves; it covers what you've researched, but doesn't control how the research tree itself works. That's covered by the executable, but unfortunately, editing most compiled code is a bit beyond the knowledge of the average modder.
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#3 Fraktal

Fraktal

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 18 October 2016 - 01:51 AM

Assembly is indeed not my strong point.

Am I to assume then that the research tree is in an area of the executable that hasn't been deciphered by you guys yet?

#4 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 18 October 2016 - 02:18 AM

Correct. Most of what we've got documented consists of tables of information - not "code" as such, but simple raw data that the developers chose to embed into the executable files. Actual instructions determining how the game behaves are much, much harder to "read".

I suspect this sort of thing might be a bit easier to edit with OpenXcom?
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#5 Fraktal

Fraktal

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 18 October 2016 - 02:26 AM

Quote

simple raw data that the developers chose to embed into the executable files

I'm familiar with the feeling. Can't count how many times my Java teacher bitched at me in the past not to hardcode values... Posted Image

I just thought that if Tycho managed to do it, it should be possible.

#6 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 18 October 2016 - 04:20 AM

Oh yeah, certainly it's "possible". Problem is that Tycho's developed an uncommon skill set. Occasionally coders on a similar level come through the boards, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

Don't get me wrong, anyone can learn that sort of stuff, it just takes a fair bit of time and effort to do.
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#7 Fraktal

Fraktal

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 18 October 2016 - 06:01 PM

Where did Tycho disappear to, anyway?

#8 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 19 October 2016 - 12:44 AM

Beats me, though I'd imagine it's the same deal as with the Extender's other developers (Seb an kyrub): they lost interest over time and drifted off. It's been a fairly long running project.

In my experience, though, if you stick around long enough everyone drifts back eventually.  ;)
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#9 Hammarberg

Hammarberg

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 02:25 PM

View PostFraktal, on 17 October 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

After reading about the alternate laser weapon research order in the Extender, I started thinking of what could be done with the research tree and came up with something I feel is pretty good.

Problem is, I can't find any resource about where project prerequisites are defined. Neither Ufopaedia's articles on RESEARCH.DAT nor Zombie's executable table are forthcoming with that critical piece of information. The Extender's source code is no help either, as the latest-released version of the source code doesn't have the alternate laser research yet. Can anyone help?


In case anyone cares, this is what I'm trying to do (forgot the Hyperwave Decoder, it's immediately after UFO Navigation).

If this will be worked out somehow, its one of THE coolest mods ever. :D I'm all for it if it can be done.... A kingdom for the XCOM source code!

Or Tycho who could perhaps incorporate this into the Extender.... Nobody seems to know where he's at, I hope he'll stop by soon and at the very least, releases the source for the Extender, there's always people able and willing to get onto this sort of projects if just given the tools.

#10 Fraktal

Fraktal

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 05:00 PM

The tech tree above does not include any mechanics not already present in the engine. Even the "item must be in storage before interrogation completes" thing is borrowed from TFTD.

FYI, this would also be the mod into which the rocket/blaster mods I mentioned in the Extender thread would go. As well as swapping the accuracy stats for laser and plasma weapons. And making UFO power sources violently explode when shot. And overhauling the in-game Ufopaedia to more accurately describe the aliens' weaknesses.

Oh, and switching around UFO speeds:
  • Battleship is the slowest. Even a Skyranger can catch up to it, but only barely.
  • Terror Ship is the next; you now need an Interceptor.
  • Small Scout, Interceptor can still catch it but only barely.
  • Supply Ship, you now need a Lightning.
  • Harvester, Lightning is still enough.
  • Abductor, can narrowly outrun a Lightning but not a Firestorm.
  • Large Scout, Firestorm is good.
  • Medium Scout, Firestorm can catch this too but really needs to haul ass.
You might wonder what is the purpose of this. It's so that before you can get advanced craft, the only UFOs you can catch without them landing or slowing down to sweep an area are also the ones you will not have the teeth to take out in a tactical mission. Ergo, the early game is going to be considerably harder.

#11 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,609 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 22 October 2016 - 07:32 AM

View PostFraktal, on 19 October 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

FYI, this would also be the mod into which the rocket/blaster mods I mentioned in the Extender thread would go. As well as swapping the accuracy stats for laser and plasma weapons. And making UFO power sources violently explode when shot. And overhauling the in-game Ufopaedia to more accurately describe the aliens' weaknesses.

Oh, and switching around UFO speeds:
  • Battleship is the slowest. Even a Skyranger can catch up to it, but only barely.
  • Terror Ship is the next; you now need an Interceptor.
  • Small Scout, Interceptor can still catch it but only barely.
  • Supply Ship, you now need a Lightning.
  • Harvester, Lightning is still enough.
  • Abductor, can narrowly outrun a Lightning but not a Firestorm.
  • Large Scout, Firestorm is good.
  • Medium Scout, Firestorm can catch this too but really needs to haul ass.

All of this is do-able as you are probably aware, quick and easy edits and you are golden. The only problem of course is the research tree. I have been looking into this lately but haven't found anything constructive. I'm sure that eventually it will be located, just wish Seb76 was still around as he would be able to find this out. :)

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#12 Fraktal

Fraktal

    Squaddie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts

Posted 22 October 2016 - 03:48 PM

I know those are easy.

What will not be as easy is that I want all terrestrial items to be manufacturable.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users