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Cmdr Spike's AAR - [Spoilers]


sp1ke

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Well I'm going to attempt Gangplank with one vet Sniper (conventional sniper rifle, Squadsight/GoodGroun/Opportunist), and three rookies with laser rifles and SCOPEs. All in paper-bag body armour. Wish me luck!
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I am also thinking I should have built the OTS instead of my second Sat Uplink. It's an almost impossible, strategic vs tactical choise. But the OTS, specifically Squad Size, is the greatest force multiplier in the game with the possible exception of Psi. Going from 4 to 6 units is much more than just a 50% increase in firepower, it also gives you flexibility and the ability to broaden your talent pool. Training up one or two rookies with 4 or 5 vets is easy. Training up 1 rookie with 3 vets is risky and difficult. This means your pool of soldiers stays small and you are very vulnerable to catastrophe. Also means you can't fully use the tactical flexibility offered by classes and items.

 

Maybe I should have let a couple of Council countries go, in order to get OTS early. And I wonder if, in Classic, Asia is the best starting location choice, so as to get Future Combat.

 

On Classic/Impossible you'll lose several countries, the strategy is to try to get one or two additional continent bonuses while retaining enough countries not to lose the game. I usually only build 2 additional Uplinks, allowing for 8 sats and the other countries either leave or I leave at least 2 of them unguarded so that abductions can continue.

 

The OTS is critical period. It's not just Squad Size, but Iron Will is very useful to avoid that your starting soldiers end up as low willed when they reach Colonel, or the bonus experience points.

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So, two counterintuitive and unattractive things about XCOM 2012:
  • Advancing the plot is a bad idea and just makes life worse for you. It is better to stall and delay the plot. :-(
  • Advancing on the ground is a bad idea and just makes life worse for you. It is better to move very slowly and avoid entering new map areas. :-(

 

Also depends on your strategy. Assaulting the alien base lead to Outsiders being replaced by Sectoid Commanders on UFOs, which are a real pain, but in case panic is out of control you may have to assault it just to prevent losing the game. Also, the longer you take to assault the base means that you'll face bigger aliens like Heavy Floaters and Sectopods. I still remember one game where half my squad had to retreat to the starting area while being chased by Heavy Floaters, while the other half was unable to help them. Not to mention Sectopods guarding choke points, which can be a total nightmare.

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Well wow! I beat Gangplank on Classic with one Sniper Captain and 3 rookies. No one died, two rookies wounded but not too badly. The kill distribution was pretty even, 4 or 5 each to the rookies out of 19 kills.

 

Unfortunately two out of the three rookies got promoted to Sniper - what's up with that?

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I'm sure when I played Gangplank on Normal with a 6 man squad there were two Cyberdisks. On Classic with a 4 man squad there was only one.

 

Does the game increase the number of aliens for a larger squad??

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I'm sure when I played Gangplank on Normal with a 6 man squad there were two Cyberdisks. On Classic with a 4 man squad there was only one.

 

Never played Gangplank on Normal but I'm almost sure that you must be confusing missions or there's a bug involved.

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Yeah probably I am confusing it with Allen Base Assault.

 

Missions are ridiculously easy now I finally have a six man squad. Mainly because I am holding off doing Allen Base until I need the Panic reduction or the loot. I am awash with loot at the moment, and Panic is fine. I'm getting bored though so I think I need to do Allen Base just to increase the challenge. I am building up a large (and useless) collection of Outsider Shards. :-)

 

I am starting to understand why you guys were not hugely impressed by 2012 and in particular it doesn't feel like it has the same replay value or the same epic scale as the original.

 

It is a well-made game however, in many ways not only more polished than the original, but better balanced.

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And it's no use reloading the game as the RNG seed is preserved.

 

You can still cheat with the preserved RNG seed - if you reload a few times then you eventually figure out which shots are more/less likely to miss, so you change the order of the shots to get the result you need.

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I am starting to understand why you guys were not hugely impressed by 2012 and in particular it doesn't feel like it has the same replay value or the same epic scale as the original.

 

I've played over 1800 hours (both EU and EW) so I kinda disagree with you on the replay value. More than half of that time was playing Impossible, which to many can be too harsh and RNG dependent but that's how I like it smile.png

 

You should really try some of the Second Wave options later like the ones that randomize the rookie's starting stats and their promotion gains. Training Roulette is also another of my favorites, along with the others that restrict psi.

 

It is a well-made game however, in many ways not only more polished than the original, but better balanced.

 

My biggest complain of this game is how limited Geoscape when compared to the original and after so many hours played I know all maps and most of their spawn locations. But its tactical combat is better than the original - right now when I play Openxcom I've started moving my soldiers more rather than taking 1 step at the time, using grenades that explode on contact, etc.

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You can still cheat with the preserved RNG seed - if you reload a few times then you eventually figure out which shots are more/less likely to miss, so you change the order of the shots to get the result you need.

Yes I did try changing the order of actions that I take and sometimes that works.

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I will try some of the 2nd Wave options. Yes I could see that you have got a lot of replay value out of it. I can see that the high challenge level of Impossible would be quite motivating. Randomising damage would be good. Randomising stats would probably just lead to 'stats farming' and a squad of superheroes surely?

 

I really like Ironman but I am so nervous. On my regular, saveable games I very often have grisly rocket accidents due to just a slip of the keyboard or mousepad (if you hit the rocket shortcut key twice by mistake it overrides the friendly fire warning).

 

I agree with you that the maps and spawnpoints are starting to get familiar to me after only about 100 hrs of play. At the very least I feel I know the *types* of places on the map to watch out for spawn points.

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First game on Impossible. Hah, I totally got my ass kicked. Classic did not prepare me for this. Mission one failed, XCOM Project terminated! :-)

 

But this is how it should be right?. 'Mere' Sectoids should be scary and harder to kill than XCOM soldiers. Which is what happens in Impossible.

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Crap. Three times in a row failed on the first mission of Impossible. Being more cautious each time. Basically the Sectoids are far tougher and more dangerous than your Rookies, man for man, and they also outnumber you. So you need to tackle them one pod at a time, so you have 4 on 2 or 4 on 3 odds, and you more or less have to fight from good cover and fight defensively. Even then it's a numbers game and they grind you down. You frag any alien that's down to 3 HP and within range, but they generally stay out of grenade range and avoid bunching up. But you need to use the grenades early on, to even up the odds, any time you don't get a kill with rifle fire, which is most of the time, even when you are concentrating all fire on one target, the easiest target.

 

Is it true that the game lies about hit probability and in Impossible the real value is lower than what is shown on screen? I think that's really, really cheap and terrible game design. Whether it's understating or overstating the hit probability, it would be better just not to state it.

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OMG this is hard. Two more failures. On the last attempt I actually managed to kill more Sectoids than I lost soldiers, but as they outnumbered me at least 2:1 they still won the war of attrition and ground me down.

 

I guess that's why they call it Impossible!

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Crap. Three times in a row failed on the first mission of Impossible. Being more cautious each time. Basically the Sectoids are far tougher and more dangerous than your Rookies, man for man, and they also outnumber you. So you need to tackle them one pod at a time, so you have 4 on 2 or 4 on 3 odds, and you more or less have to fight from good cover and fight defensively. Even then it's a numbers game and they grind you down. You frag any alien that's down to 3 HP and within range, but they generally stay out of grenade range and avoid bunching up. But you need to use the grenades early on, to even up the odds, any time you don't get a kill with rifle fire, which is most of the time, even when you are concentrating all fire on one target, the easiest target.

 

A few things to notice for your first mission in Impossible. If you fail, restart the mission. If you get two or more of your soldiers killed, restart the mission. If you get any map like Graveyard or Highway Bridge, restart the game. The best maps are those with stairs that allow you to literally get the drop on the aliens, like Liquor Store.

 

Is it true that the game lies about hit probability and in Impossible the real value is lower than what is shown on screen? I think that's really, really cheap and terrible game design. Whether it's understating or overstating the hit probability, it would be better just not to state it.

 

That is false. The percentages you see displayed are the real ones - and there's no rigged RNG either, you can and will miss 90% shots three times in a row (and so will the aliens but usually players don't notice those).

 

OK I am going to turn off the 2nd Wave option for damage affecting stats during battle, and in fact turn off all 2nd Wave options. And try a fourth time to win the first mission. :-)

 

Don't use Red Fog - it only affects your soldiers, not the aliens.

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From what I remember, the seed's saved with the savegame to prevent save scumming. That said, if you have any soldiers who are not needed for the current turn who still have some moves to use up, you can try and influence the RNG a little by getting them to do all sorts of different actions (walk X tiles, shoot something) this should change the RNG roll for the next action and give a different result for the action you were wanting to retry. If it's not the desired effect, try again and vary the actions of the spare soldier.

 

- NKF

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OK I finally completed the first Impossible mission, though with 2 killed / 2 survivors. Both survivors were promoted (they had 4 and 3 kills each vs the 8 Sectoids) but one is gravely wounded for 9 days. I can see the next problem, after the first problem of completing the first mission with only rookies, is going to be how to build up the squad so they specialise (Sniper/Assault/Support/Heavy) and their stats improve. At this point I'm going to lose them faster than I can promote them. :-(

 

The key to winning the first mission I think is

 

- liberal use of grenades, even though you can't get a kill with them. (this is actually a 'silver lining' because you won't destroy the corpse and equipment I guess). Use grenades sooner rather than later and don't be afraid to use a grenade against a single target. In particular, if you can use a grenade first against a single target in cover, damage it and destroy the cover, allowing other units to finish the kill with weapon fire.

- an aggressive phase at the beginning of contact to thin out enemy numbers, followed by a very defensive phase to slowly take out the rest

- avoid any exchanges of fire between you in high cover and them in high cover. They will win that exchange as their weapons are more deadly (and they are more accurate?). In that situation retreat out of LOS, reload, then move back into LOS (but not tracing any movement through their LOS that would trigger Overwatch reaction fire).

-very defensive means not just behind high cover but with adjacent high cover you can move behind to be totally out of LOS while you reload. If you go out of LOS, the aliens will often move into exposed positions or at least into low cover.

- unfortunately their weapons will destroy your hard cover, whereas your weapons (except grenades) will break glass at best.

- try to get 'dual use' out of your grenades - damage an alien and destroy cover useful to that alien / other aliens

 

One of the real problems with the first mission in Impossible is that you can't even exploit aliens in exposed positions because your chance of even one kill is so low. So even if you have 4 guys on an exposed target and one has a grenade, you can't risk rushing in to flank or get close-range bonuses because it's entirely likely that 3 guys in a row will miss or fail to kill the target, and your exposed guys will almost definitely die in the return fire plasma pistol shots. So all the tactics that are written up for XCOM 2012 really don't apply for the First Mission on Impossible. You have no snipers, no perks, lousy chance to hit, basic weapons, a total of 4 grenades (that can't kill anything), lousy hit points. Even behind high cover you are far from secure and if you trade shots with the enemy in high cover, you will lose and you will die. The advice to hunker down behind cover, even, I don't think applies here. It's debatable. I have hit and even killed aliens with Overwatch. But more to the point I think Overwatch keeps them pinned down tactically. Then again maybe it's better to avoid Overwatch so that they are free to move out of high cover, then fire at them. The problem is that whenever you take an opportunity to fire, you can't then Hunker Down, so best case you take incoming fire in High Cover, with a fairly high risk of dying. Particularly if there is more than one alien firing, because it's quite likely the plasma weapons will destroy your High Cover and before you have a chance to move to new cover, the second alien takes a shot at you out of cover (and therefore also 'flanking' right?) and you probably die.

 

If Science and Engineering between the two of them could come up with some scientific/technical breakthrough that would allow soldiers to carry, I dunno, two grenades - I know, it's sounds just scientifically impossible - that would be more useful to XCOM than laser weapons or medkits or probably anything short of Carapace Armour. :-/

 

Yeah it kind of busts my balls that you can't carry multiple grenades (as you could in original XCOM and you of course can in real life). If I was the survivor of the First Mission, even if I aborted and evac'd out, I would be right up in the face of the Commander demanding multiple grenades per soldier as the only solution to beat the aliens in the short term. The soldiers seem to be carrying about 20 rifle magazines each (and by God they need them!), how about ditching some of those mags, or ditching the pistols, for extra grenades. I would happily swap a pistol for an extra grenade on these missions and it would not even be that hard to program in the game. I wonder if that's a feasible Mod? But more to the point each soldier has a 'Backpack' and rattling around in that huge backpack is the grand total of just one grenade. Hmm.

 

No doubt in my mind that from Mission 2 onward, XCOM Soldiers would be carrying grenades chock-a-block, at least until some more effective weapons came along.

 

Also, for that matter, how about starting Impossible with the New Guy perk already turned on? There's no justification really why you don't have rockets, LMG, shotguns and Sniper from the get-go. It would make the First Impossible Mission a damn sight easier, that's for sure! :-)

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Yeah the more I think about it, the Item Limit is one of the most frustrating things about XCOM 2012. So in that sense they have remained true to the original, ha ha. :-)

 

It's very annoying that you can't give everyone a medkit and a SCOPE, or a medkit and a grenade, or two grenades. Frankly it's just a game mechanic and not one that conveys any sense of realism. So it makes the game like playing chess or Yahtzee - just working within its arbitrary rules and mechanics, rather than a sense of realism about a special forces operation vs aliens. It's like the lack of night vision gear in the original game (though we have proposed various rationalisations to work around that).

 

I would be comfortable if each soldier had say 4 Backpack slots, even if a Medikit took up 2 or 4 slots and a SCOPE took up 2 or 4 slots (maybe the SCOPE has a big battery pack and computer etc). But it's ridiculous that wearing a Nano-Vest means I can't even carry the one standard grenade. That kind of 'unrealism' (I know, I know, it's science fiction/fantasy, but still there is basic physics right?) really bugs me and detracts from the game play experience.

 

I wonder if the play testers objected to this item limit? I realise it's a game-balancing exercise, but I would rather have grenades be almost useless against aliens, for some 'science fiction' reason, than have them be effective but only be allowed to carry one of them for some unexplained and stupid reason. For example, make grenades ineffective, only HE Packs are effective, then it makes sense why we can only carry one HE Pack. (Even then multiple grenades would be useful for remodelling the terrain... grr!).

 

And why do you have to be a bloody Major to carry even one reload for your rocket launcher.... grrr.

 

Like, after the first mission you could have a dialog that says "we've determined that almost all of our standard weapons are ineffective against the aliens, so we will be restricted to very heavy explosive packs (no grenades), specialised firearms, and single use very heavy rockets". Like maybe the Rocket is a TOW or something huge like that. I get the impression it's more like a LAW or an Armbrust, so why couldn't someone carry a spare, even if it isn't the Heavy who carries the spare? A bloody rookie could carry the spare and if necessary that rookie could forgo their grenade, though from what we can tell the Heavy carries their rocket using the carrying capacity equivalent to a pistol. So yeah a rookie could forgo their pistol (or their grenade) to carry a spare rocket for the Heavy. Grrr. Don't like it. It frustrates me.

 

I do appreciate it was cool to get rid of / streamline the tactical inventory management vs the original game, and I appreciate that we don't have to do ammo inventory management for firearms any more, but I think they have gone too far in the other direction, and using it as a game balancing mechanism is a poor excuse, in my opinion.

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Frankly Nano-Vest should use an Armour slot not an Item slot. It should either be stackable with other Armour types, or they should just have made it an armour type in its own right, one up from Body Armour. Making it use an Item slot, so you can't even carry a bloody grenade while you are wearing it, is ridiculous. It's just poor programming and there is no possible excuse or justification. Even as 'game balancing' it's ungainly and conspicuously awkward. :-(

 

If there are any cheats available to give Deep Pockets to everyone I would happily use them with no qualms. Ditto if there is a cheat to make Nano-Vest an armour type rather than an Item.

 

Or a cheat to give Grenadier to everyone - a whole TWO grenades per mission, whoop-de-do! - I would use that without qualms as well.

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Ok so I have reviewed the available Mods. I think all I need is to give Deep Pockets and Grenadier to all soldiers, including rookies, so that they can carry up to 2 items or up to 4 grenades, or 2 grenades and one item. I also like the Mod where the Arc Thrower goes in the pistol slot. And Rocketeer for all Heavies. And I like the Mod where pistols have to reload - whyever not, after all? I would still like a Mod for Nano-vests to be actual armour, though I didn't find that out there in Mod-land. I think I would actually be very content, with just those Mods only. Of course it would make the game easier, but I would just amp up the difficulty (eg with Second Wave options). I don't mind the game being difficult, I do mind the game being stoopid. :-)

 

I guess I would need Heavies to be able to pick different perks than Grenadier and Rocketeer when they get promoted, and similarly for Supports for Deep Pockets.

 

(I looked at Long War, which gives 2 slots, grenades can be equipped in both, plus perks to increase this later, and variant of either AP or HE grenade. But, Long War does not thrill me overall).

Edited by sp1ke
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Is there a Mod to get Dr Vahlen to stfu with her lectures? Particularly when the 'explosives' she is moaning about killing an alien also killed an XCOM Soldier? And particularly when the cause was vehicles set on fire by alien plasma weapons, then exploding?

 

She needs to 'exercise caution' herself or she is going to get a slap!

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The XCOM Tactical Ready Room was in somber mood. The entire tactical team, on and off-duty, was gathered round newly minted Corporals Wood and Ivonova, only survivors of XCOM's first real Op. The deaths of Haddad and Semyenov were written on all their faces. Bad news though that was, the rumour mill was saying that if the Op had been a failure, which it very nearly was, the entire XCOM project would have been terminated.

 

XCOM's soldiers stirred, stood and saluted as The Commander entered the Ready Room. "At ease", she said. When they had settled back on their benches, she continued.

 

"As you know I've been reviewing the combat footage and your after action reports with Tactical Intel. But I wanted to come down here and hear your personal impressions on our first combat op. I know it wasn't an easy one. I want to make sure we have learned the right lessons."

 

All eyes of course turned to Wood and Ivonova. There was still fresh blood seeping slowly into Natalia's abdominal bandages, but she had refused to be confined to medical. She coughed, painfully, and started.

 

"Ma'am, X-Ray outclasses us in firepower, lethality, ability to soak up damage, and at this point, probably also tactics. The mission was literally, almost Impossible. There's no point pretending that's not the case, and if we do pretend, we are not going to succeed. We need to address the shortfalls and fix them, A.S.A.P." She spelled the letters out, despite her nearly perfect English.

 

Daniel Wood picked up the thread.

 

"In detail, Ma'am, we are expending upwards of two rifle magazines per kill. That's not 'spray and pray'. That's two magazines of controlled fire against reasonably exposed, static targets. Meanwhile, their weapons are taking our guys down, dead, in a couple of volleys. What's more, their weapons strip away the hard cover, which we need to stay alive, in a single burst. The only weapons we have that are remotely effective are the grenades. Even then, X-Ray doesn't die, we need to get in with rifle fire to finish the job, but then it's more like a magazine's worth of fire, maybe less."

 

Ivanova shifted on her bench and winced. She noticed a little blood on her fingers from where she had been pressing against the bandages. She continued:

 

"Commander, we need heavier weapons. Ideally what X-Ray has. Failing that we need heavy weapons. Squad machine guns. Rocket launchers. Maybe, for close range work, autoloading shotguns. And grenades. We need many more grenades. They are the only things that really work against these chertovy alien bastards."

 

The Commander took all of this in. She said

 

"OK well that accords closely with the summary from Tactical Intel and it's in line with the recommendations that have been agreed with the Council."

 

The troops leaned in, expectantly. Ivanova coughed again, and asked

 

"What are the new recommendations, Ma'am. What is the new tactical loadout?"

 

The Commander paused for a moment, uncharacteristically almost... nervous?

 

"The Council has approved the deployment of squad LMGs, and potentially disposable one-shot rocket launchers. Also combat shotguns. These will be assigned to hand-picked, specialist personnel only, on a named basis. Wood and Ivanova, you will be the first authorised to carry. Shotgun for Wood, LMG for Ivanova - when she's fit for return to duty."

 

The assembled troops were underwhelmed. Wood piped up:

 

"What about grenades. What about standard loadout, for everyone who's not 'hand-picked'?"

 

The Commander smiled awkwardly.

 

"Ah, the standard loadout will remain basically the same. We're upping the ammo load to 24 mags of combined rifle and pistol ammo. But, ah, we are sticking with one grenade."

 

There was stunned silence until Ivanova spoke up.

 

"A backpack full of chertovy magazines, and one grenade?" She threw her hands up in the air.

 

Wood looked his Commander in the eye. "Why Ma'am? Why?"

 

"I'm sorry Daniel. My personal recommendation was for a decrease in rifle mags to 6 or 8, increase in grenades carried to 6 or at least 4, dependent on fitness, and if necessary leave the pistols on the ship. However we had, ah, objections from the Science Section."

 

"Dr Vahlen?!"

 

"Yes. Correct. Dr Vahlen went over my head to the Council. She was actually insisting on no explosive weapons at all, of any type, on missions with X-Ray contact. She also requested that we issue low-velocity ammo to avoid the risk of fire and vehicle explosions or other secondary explosions. We were effectively deadlocked. I managed to hold the status quo of one grenade per soldier, plus permission to assign rocket launchers to specially trained, authorised personnel only. I'm sorry, it's the best I could do. "

 

The Commander noticed that no one would even meet her gaze, for a long time, until a hand went up at the back.

 

"Ma'am"

 

"Yes soldier?"

 

"Permission to transfer to the Power Generator section, Ma'am?"

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