Let's Play X-Com: Terror from the Deep


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#41 NKF

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 05:56 AM

I had to run the tests a few more times. This time I ran at 5min time compression, and my terror sites were disappearing after the 30m mark. Then back to 5s/1m, and they were ending on the hour. I then alternated back and forth between 5s/1m and 5m a few times and it seems consistent.

I do hope radar pings aren't affected in the same way!

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#42 Nookrium

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 11:15 AM

I get a visit from some Lobstermen, and they ruin my already terrible day.
Episode 8



#43 Space Voyager

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 11:59 AM

DAMN, I die all the time! Sorry for panicking and all. :D

Too bad for the mission. Both of them.

#44 Nookrium

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 12:02 PM

I used to think I was somewhat decent at X-Com, Terror from the Deep is informing me otherwise

#45 NKF

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 04:34 AM

Lobstermen do make an impression when they first show up, don't they? Work your way up to getting sonic weapons, drills or the thermal shok launcher (combined with the GC-HE to kill them once down) as soon as practicable.

- NKF
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#46 Zombie

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:41 AM

There's a steep learning curve from UFO to TFTD, what worked fine in UFO will probably work only a little (or not at all) in TFTD. In UFO, you didn't need to be perfect to win as multiple strategies worked. In TFTD you need to be methodical and ultraprecise as any mistakes get amplified. Posted Image

Some more points I'd like to bring up from watching your last episode... First is the Thermal Tazer. While it deals 110% stun to Lobstermen (0-176pts of stun damage) a healthy Lobsterman on beginner difficulty has 125 health. Thus you would only be able to stun a Lobsterman with one poke ~30% of the time (and much less on higher difficulty levels). The X-COM Wiki recommends the Thermal Tazer as a viable option against this alien, but I don't really consider it a safe choice - more like a last resort (see next paragraph). If I had to face Lobstermen with Thermal Tazers, I'd attempt to bum-rush the alien with as many men with tazers as possible always approaching from the back side to avoid sympathetic reaction fire. This isn't foolproof and I'd still expect casualties, especially against multiple aliens.

Now, with the melee drills (Vibroblade, Thermic Lance & Heavy Thermic Lance) the story is different as Lobstermen take double damage from them. The Vibroblade (with the same amount of "damage" as the Thermal Tazer) deals 0-320pts of damage - enough to kill a Beginner level Lobsterman over 60% of the time with just one poke. That doubles your odds of surviving against this alien. The biggest upside of using the Vibroblade vs the Thermal Tazer is it's TU cost: (10% for the Vibroblade, 40% for the Thermal Tazer). That means you can poke a Lobsterman 3 more times than the tazer for the same TU cost. When your soldiers are a constant group of rookies, they can only use 20% of their TU for movement to get into range for 2 pokes of the tazer. Since rookies have 50-60 TU starting stats, that means they only have 10-12 TU to move which equates 2-3 tiles at 4 TU cost. See a problem here? This is why I don't recommend the Thermal Tazers as you would get 3 times the bang with using the lowly Vibroblade. Not only that, but stunned Lobstermen are still deadly as they have inherent melee capabilities. Posted Image Blowing them up with explosives as NKF mentions is the best way to protect against this.

Sonic Pulsers are still the best against Lobstermen. As you found out, these grenades can be dumped one on top of another and they all will explode without destroying the others. (At one time I thought this was a bug, but looking at OBDATA.DAT {the file that holds object information} it seems intentional as the devs gave all the grenade types very high tolerances vs explosions). In fact, you can intermix the grenade types without worry of accidental destruction. Do you see why the Sonic Pulser is the Great Equalizerâ„¢ in TFTD now? Posted Image

There is another thing I'd like to mention (which I touched upon in my previous post) and that is the Thermal Shok launcher. It deals 110% damage to Lobstermen just like the Thermal Tazer, but it is much better against them for four reasons.
  • It is AOE and can affect multiple aliens instead of only one.
  • You can attack at a distance.
  • It deals more stun damage.
  • It doesn't require much research effort to obtain.
One strategy I don't see you using much is the "dump and run" strategy. It involves a spotter and a support crew of about 2-4 soldiers. The spotter "spots" the aliens, and the crew (who are following behind by about 5-6 tiles) dump their loads on the alien (pardon the pun). After that, the spotter pulls back (or hides behind an object) so the alien can't see him/her anymore. Rinse and repeat until the alien is dead. You just need to be careful that the area behind and to either side of the crew are clear as you don't want to draw grenade attacks from aliens. Posted Image

By the way, in your last mission against the Lobsterman "Escort" ship, I see your alien vessel was unpatched (the game swaps the escort and survey ship by accident). Check out my patch which fixes this issue and also the unconnected spawn points in the true survey ship.

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#47 Space Voyager

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 07:56 AM

Just so that you don't make a grave mistake, I'm posting a vid that specifies how exactly to deal with a terror mission when you find out that terrorizing is done by Lobstermen. It has been posted before, but it does not hurt to go over the basics again.



#48 Nookrium

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 10:19 AM

View PostSpace Voyager, on 14 November 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

Just so that you don't make a grave mistake, I'm posting a vid that specifies how exactly to deal with a terror mission when you find out that terrorizing is done by Lobstermen. It has been posted before, but it does not hurt to go over the basics again.



HAHAHAHAHA!!  That was amazing


Thanks for the tips btw, I'll take everything I can get :)

#49 silencer_pl

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:00 AM

I think I've posted this some time ago, so I applaud to SV's memory (or maybe it wasn't me but it was surely put here on this forums).
I have found some time to watch this LP. That is a strange base placement. You cover most of your sonar range with land mass? Why? Also I see you rely mostly on auto shots. While technically it was discussed that 3x autoshot is way better than 1x snapshot, I personally found more successful results using snap shots / aimed shots if possible. Auto shots in close proximity only.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#50 Nookrium

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:05 PM

View Postsilencer_pl, on 14 November 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

I think I've posted this some time ago, so I applaud to SV's memory (or maybe it wasn't me but it was surely put here on this forums).
I have found some time to watch this LP. That is a strange base placement. You cover most of your sonar range with land mass? Why? Also I see you rely mostly on auto shots. While technically it was discussed that 3x autoshot is way better than 1x snapshot, I personally found more successful results using snap shots / aimed shots if possible. Auto shots in close proximity only.

I made the mistake of reading an online strategy guide somewhere that I now have realized didn't do me much good at all.  My base could be a bit better placed and I think I should have skipped Gauss altogether and just gone into Sonic as soon as I could.
  I've always used auto, I don't really even think about it much.  With my lousy weapons it never seems to me that a single shot will help much.  I just finished recording the next episode a bit ago and (with Sonic Rifles) I used aimed shot a bit more and it seemed to work out better.  Using a different solo scout with careful group behind tactic (as Zombie recommended), the aimed shot / duck and cover seemed to work out pretty well.  
My previous UFO strategies aren't doing me much good so hopefully I can adapt and survive TftD a bit longer :)

#51 NKF

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:36 PM

Statistically, auto shots are better, but they only really work if there are decent auto-fire weapons like the lasers or plasmas. TFTD's best weapons are all single-shot weapons. In a way it's a good thing, it helps sets TFTD apart from just being a plain old re-skin.

Incidentally, remember how you made it a practice to have a 'rear commander' in your UFO LP where you got a soldier to stay back in the Skyranger and use the mind probe on aliens? Once you get the M.C. Reader, it's not a bad idea to get back into that habit. It meshes well with hand-to-hand combat as you can make use of the alien stat data to make a good guess on whether it's safe to walk up to an alien while it's facing you. For example, aliens with Sonic Cannons cannot shoot back if their TUs are under 50%.

- NKF
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#52 Zombie

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 02:04 AM

View PostNKF, on 14 November 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

Incidentally, remember how you made it a practice to have a 'rear commander' in your UFO LP where you got a soldier to stay back in the Skyranger and use the mind probe on aliens? Once you get the M.C. Reader, it's not a bad idea to get back into that habit. It meshes well with hand-to-hand combat as you can make use of the alien stat data to make a good guess on whether it's safe to walk up to an alien while it's facing you. For example, aliens with Sonic Cannons cannot shoot back if their TUs are under 50%.

Also the M.C. Reader can tell you exactly what rank of alien you are up against. Posted Image

Why pour a ton of resources (and men! Posted Image) into hand-stunning an alien you don't even need for research purposes? Focus on stunning only what you need and kill the rest. Corpses have a good price on the black market, but live ones just clog up your alien containment. If you know you will be up against a bigger ship, you might want to take a few M.C. Readers along. You aren't going to be using them every turn, so you can leap-frog the men with them up to the front lines to help out or to just hold an area so it's clear. Nothing worse than trying to abort a mission only to find nosy aliens poking around your ship. Posted Image

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#53 silencer_pl

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 10:13 AM

That is why I am waiting for OpenTFTD, where they've made selling live aliens possible.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#54 Zombie

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 03:17 AM

Don't forget about the grenade relay Neptune! Posted Image You had a perfect opportunity to utilize it when Kaazak was closer to the Lobsterman and your other soldier couldn't throw the Magna Pack because it was too heavy. Prime, throw to Kaazak, have him toss it and then boogie out of there. The blast probably would have killed the Lobsterman and would have saved another soldier's life. Here's the deal with Lobstermen: don't play games with them and wait them out, because they are very intelligent and will take every inch you give them to kill your guys. And because they are so tough, you almost need to concentrate on one of them fully (doesn't always work of course) until it's dead or stunned.

I wouldn't worry about not having enough Sonic Pulsers for raiding the ship. Because of the low ceilings, your throwing distance is limited anyway. Use those Magna Packs instead. They are cheaper and you don't need to chew up your Zrbite stockpile to produce them. Posted Image

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#55 Nookrium

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 03:45 AM

Episode 9 is up.  Lobsterman Retribution!



View PostZombie, on 16 November 2014 - 03:17 AM, said:

Don't forget about the grenade relay Neptune!

Yeah, I missed that

#56 silencer_pl

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 02:52 PM

It's funny how Lobsterman are bane of most LP'ers. Just increases the fun to watch.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#57 Nookrium

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 08:34 PM

It really is a lot of fun.  I'm really enjoying how much more difficult TFtD is compared to ufo.  It really forces me to think, every decision can effect the mission drastically.

#58 NoXTheRoXStaR

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 06:08 AM

I think the title of this Topic be should renamed.
Retype it as such :

"Let's pretend we know what we're doing and make a Let's Play youtube effort out of how shitty we are"

"It forces you to think"

Is this Sunflash? If it is, I'm going to drive 15 miles and choke you.
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-Al Bundy (Married With Children)

#59 NKF

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 06:55 AM

Steady on there NoX. I'm not sure what (or who, by the sound of it) has set you off this time, but there's no need to take a random swipe like that. Most Let's Plays on Youtube do consist of the LPer blundering through and gradually getting better at the playing the game they're showcasing. It's all part of the fun.

Just want to keep things civil, please.

- NKF
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#60 Nookrium

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 03:11 AM

View PostNoX, on 17 November 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

I think the title of this Topic be should renamed.
"Let's pretend we know what we're doing and make a Let's Play youtube effort out of how shitty we are"

Yeesh, tough crowd...

It appears you are not familiar with the point of my channel.  I'm obviously not here to show how amazing I am at playing any of these, nor do I ever claim (or pretend) to know what I'm doing.  It's a channel about me revisiting some of my favorite games from over a decade ago.  If you're looking for a tutorial on how to play any of these you would be sorely disappointed, there's plenty of those to find on YouTube anyways.   I was a huge fan of UFO defense when it came out but I never really played a lot of TftD, having just finished a UFO LP I figured it was finally time I visited and put some real effort into Terror.




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