Holy crap! (Yet Another Stupid Failed Mission)

[magic9mushroom]

Hadn't realised this until today, since it's been a while since I've played X-Com and I hadn't figured out how to fix the difficulty bug back then.

 

Playing on Superhuman (real Superhuman, this time), I shot down a Sectoid Terror Ship before it reached Cairo. Then, like my typical overconfident self, I sent out my squad of 14 soldiers to recover it. Personal Armour, Laser Rifles.

 

...

 

Fighting Cyberdisks in the open is one thing. But they're packed in like SARDINES in the ship! There were literally 3 or 4 shoulder to shoulder! And they take so little damage from other Cyberdisks' explosions, it's ridiculous.

 

On a somewhat related note, my assault force appeared to consist almost wholly of psi-weenies.

 

Escaped in the Skyranger with 2 soldiers left. They're both psi-puppets, too; the only reason they survived was because they'd been mind-controlled by the aliens and sent back out to scout.

 

Oh, well. I caught a Sectoid Leader in the first Sectoid Terror Site all the way back in February, and I've got four fully-loaded Psionic Laboratories going into May. Just finished research on Flying Suits, too.

 

The Sectoids will pay for this so dearly. Once I've finished paying off all my debts, anyway; April's been a slow month and so I've run out of money.

[Space Voyager]

As long as there is a clear plan for retribution, you can't fail!

[silencer_pl]

Unless you have to fight Etherals. Every plan fails when they are involved.

[magic9mushroom]

Unless you have to fight Etherals. Every plan fails when they are involved.

 

Ethereals can't show up before June. My psi-screening month is May. Sectopods are certainly still annoying, though.

[NoXTheRoXStaR]

Explosives are your best friend. I've often wondered why there are so few who wish to embrace them. One does NOT need a team of expendables in order to win a scenario. You simply need a squad with one focus in mind. You do NOT fill your personal transport carrier with soldiers who are likely to blow the entire mission being mind controlled or being cowardly or by user default "smeg things up". I have personally killed more aliens with explosives and small armed weapons such as the laser pistol and grenades then anything else.

[magic9mushroom]

Explosives are your best friend. I've often wondered why there are so few who wish to embrace them. One does NOT need a team of expendables in order to win a scenario. You simply need a squad with one focus in mind. You do NOT fill your personal transport carrier with soldiers who are likely to blow the entire mission being mind controlled or being cowardly or by user default "smeg things up". I have personally killed more aliens with explosives and small armed weapons such as the laser pistol and grenades then anything else.

 

You aren't making any sense. Grenades are too weak to damage the heavily-resistant and heavily-armoured Cyberdisks (and even stronger explosive weapons are only going to hurt the one they directly hit), and against psionic aliens they simply allow your mind-controlled soldiers to kill even more of their fellows.

 

You also seem to be telling me to not use Psi-wimps, which would be fine if I knew who the Psi-wimps actually were. I'm only just starting to Psi-screen, remember?

 

Kindly refrain from giving blatantly retarded and self-destructive "advice" and especially from mocking other players.

[NoXTheRoXStaR]

 

You aren't making any sense. Grenades are too weak to damage the heavily-resistant and heavily-armoured Cyberdisks (and even stronger explosive weapons are only going to hurt the one they directly hit), and against psionic aliens they simply allow your mind-controlled soldiers to kill even more of their fellows.

 

You also seem to be telling me to not use Psi-wimps, which would be fine if I knew who the Psi-wimps actually were. I'm only just starting to Psi-screen, remember?

 

Kindly refrain from giving blatantly retarded and self-destructive "advice" and especially from mocking other players.

 

I highly doubt you even bothered using my tactics/methods. My suggestion is "blatantly retarded and self destructive?"

 

Having a bad day?

[NKF]

Now now, back the conversation up a bit. I have a feeling you're both at cross purposes here. Taking to personal attacks is even more counter productive here, so let's keep it civil. NoXTheRoxStaR's suggestion is perfectly valid, but perhaps not the most appropriate for your game scenario of fighting inside a UFO.

 

 

 

You aren't making any sense. Grenades are too weak to damage the heavily-resistant and heavily-armoured Cyberdisks (and even stronger explosive weapons are only going to hurt the one they directly hit), and against psionic aliens they simply allow your mind-controlled soldiers to kill even more of their fellows.

 

He didn't single out the grenade, which would indeed be impractical. You do have High Explosives. These are highly destructive against superhuman Cyberdiscs. Pack them on your rookies with 30 ~ 40 strength to get a throwing range you can work with. Thanks to the fact they only explode between turns, you can safely use these indoors with careful TU management. Later alien grenades work too, but are not as effective (or gratifying) as the high explosive for Superhuman Cyberdisc warfare.

 

For a ranged option you have the Large Rocket and Rocket Launcher. This is very unsafe to use indoors at your current armour level, though should be fine for shooting up into the terror unit storage rooms on either side of the Terror Ship. The Rocket Tank also isn't a bad option, as it can sometimes knock out a Cyberdisc on a good roll, plus it is psi immune.

 

 

Psi ruins anything. But watching how your soldiers react to alien psi attacks early in the fight (while being as far away from the alien as possible, preferably) should alert you to problem soldiers that may want to temporarily start dropping their heavier ordinance. Once controlled, well, it's a bit up to luck really.

 

Actually, I forget if the AI does the same thing for mind controlled units, but the AI in this game does have some sense of self preservation and is not particularly inclined to use HE weapons on a target that's standing near it. A soldier controlled amongst several others will probably switch to the the gun while in close quarters. And if the controlled soldier is armed with a basic pistol, the others might be able to survive. Personal armour or better improve the odds.

 

With rocket launchers, you can use a two soldier system where one soldier carries ammo and the rocket soldier carries and empty launcher. The carrier tosses a rocket to the rocket soldier when ever you want to fire it, as loading from the ground costs the same as loading from the backpack. Or, just drop the launcher each turn. It's a bit more tedious as you have to to it every turn, but it works.

 

- NKF

[Space Voyager]

Grenades are one of the most useful weapons IMO. They ensure the survival of your troops long enough that they are worth a damn on the battlefield. Standard scout - grenade lobber combo works phenomenal. Naturally, this is true for the starting phase of the game. Later on you can still use HE, launchers etc.

[magic9mushroom]

He didn't single out the grenade, which would indeed be impractical.

 

Yes, he did:

 

I have personally killed more aliens with explosives and small armed weapons such as the laser pistol and grenades then anything else.

 

You do have High Explosives. These are highly destructive against superhuman Cyberdiscs. Pack them on your rookies with 30 ~ 40 strength to get a throwing range you can work with. Thanks to the fact they only explode between turns, you can safely use these indoors with careful TU management. Later alien grenades work too, but are not as effective (or gratifying) as the high explosive for Superhuman Cyberdisc warfare.

 

For a ranged option you have the Large Rocket and Rocket Launcher. This is very unsafe to use indoors at your current armour level, though should be fine for shooting up into the terror unit storage rooms on either side of the Terror Ship. The Rocket Tank also isn't a bad option, as it can sometimes knock out a Cyberdisc on a good roll, plus it is psi immune.

 

Okay, sure. But are any of these weapons really superior to Laser Rifles? Even the High Explosive doesn't do significantly more to Cyberdiscs than an auto burst from an LR thanks to that 40% resistance. In addition, I'm pretty sure the situation I was working with (Cyberdiscs clustered at the back of the ground floor of a terror ship, soldiers coming in on the doors of the side pods) forbids the use of throwing weapons thanks to the 8-tile throwing range under a roof.

 

Psi ruins anything. But watching how your soldiers react to alien psi attacks early in the fight (while being as far away from the alien as possible, preferably) should alert you to problem soldiers that may want to temporarily start dropping their heavier ordinance. Once controlled, well, it's a bit up to luck really.

 

Oh, I did all of that (and moved the disarmed soldiers into the crevices of the UFO to try to ensure they kept drawing Psi). What I considered "blatantly retarded" was this:

 

You do NOT fill your personal transport carrier with soldiers who are likely to blow the entire mission being mind controlled or being cowardly or by user default "smeg things up".

 

It is not possible to know whether a squad of soldiers who have never faced Psi before and haven't been Psi-screened yet are psi-wimps or not (well, without cheating, anyway). As such, telling people who do not have Psi yet not to load the Skyranger with psi-wimps is silly and amounts to mockery.

 

Actually, I forget if the AI does the same thing for mind controlled units, but the AI in this game does have some sense of self preservation and is not particularly inclined to use HE weapons on a target that's standing near it. A soldier controlled amongst several others will probably switch to the the gun while in close quarters. And if the controlled soldier is armed with a basic pistol, the others might be able to survive. Personal armour or better improve the odds.

 

With rocket launchers, you can use a two soldier system where one soldier carries ammo and the rocket soldier carries and empty launcher. The carrier tosses a rocket to the rocket soldier when ever you want to fire it, as loading from the ground costs the same as loading from the backpack. Or, just drop the launcher each turn. It's a bit more tedious as you have to to it every turn, but it works.

 

- NKF

 

Now, this is good advice, which I'll remember for further playthroughs.

 

I was pissed off because Nox was adopting an arrogant tone while giving mostly-useless advice. I happen to consider vainglory a particularly heinous sin.

 

In any case most of this is now moot since I have obtained Psi, Heavy Plasma Guns, and Flying Suits. REVENGE!

[Space Voyager]

I was pissed off because Nox was adopting an arrogant tone while giving mostly-useless advice. I happen to consider vainglory a particularly heinous sin.

 

"Arrogant tone" and "mostly-useless advice" are cases of personal opinion. So is your choice of which sin you find most disturbing. But please refrain from personal attacks, those never add to the discussion.

[NKF]

Yes, he did:

 

The term can also collectively refer to all the thrown explosives in this game. X-Com's a bit casual with some of its names. Like pistol, rifle and interceptor. A Firestorm is just as much an interceptor as the Interceptor after all!

 

 

 

Okay, sure. But are any of these weapons really superior to Laser Rifles? Even the High Explosive doesn't do significantly more to Cyberdiscs than an auto burst from an LR thanks to that 40% resistance.

 

Even with the damage reduction, it evens out quite nicely. The 100HE strong Large Rocket for example ends up dealing 60 average damage to a Cyberdisc compared to the laser rifle's 60 Laser. But that's only for the bit of the Cyberdisc that the rocket hit.

 

Being an area effect weapon, and with the Cyberdisc occupying 4 tiles, the explosion will strike 3 extra times at -10 to the damage rolls due to the distance from ground-zero. Large Rockets and High Explosives are not too shabby for low-tech tech.

 

They won't be suitable for all situations, but what is?

 

It is not possible to know whether a squad of soldiers who have never faced Psi before and haven't been Psi-screened yet are psi-wimps or not (well, without cheating, anyway). As such, telling people who do not have Psi yet not to load the Skyranger with psi-wimps is silly and amounts to mockery.

 

No, at least not without throwing them into the fire and letting a Sectoid leader sort this out for you.

 

I was pissed off because Nox was adopting an arrogant tone while giving mostly-useless advice. I happen to consider vainglory a particularly heinous sin.

 

This is the internet. Interpret at your peril.

 

- NKF

[magic9mushroom]

Even with the damage reduction, it evens out quite nicely. The 100HE strong Large Rocket for example ends up dealing 60 average damage to a Cyberdisc compared to the laser rifle's 60 Laser. But that's only for the bit of the Cyberdisc that the rocket hit.

 

Being an area effect weapon, and with the Cyberdisc occupying 4 tiles, the explosion will strike 3 extra times at -10 to the damage rolls due to the distance from ground-zero. Large Rockets and High Explosives are not too shabby for low-tech tech.

 

Right. That's why I said "an auto burst". High Explosives vs. Cyberdisc deal 3-69 + 3 * 0-60 = 126 average damage. Large Rockets vs, Cyberdisc deal 0-60 + 3 * 0-51 = 102 average damage. 3 hits from a Laser Rifle deal 3 * 0-86 = 93 average damage.

 

...Hmm, HE packs do more than I thought. Conceded.

 

They won't be suitable for all situations, but what is?

 

Heavy Plasma Guns.

[NoXTheRoXStaR]

Yes, excuse me for not becoming completely, asininely and abundantly clear. Yes, I and thank you NKF for clearing that up, and as such I was in fact referencing Plasma grenades and other explosive-esque weaponry.

 

Good Day.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Space Voyager
Prevention of further hostilities. ;)

[NKF]

The Lego sectoid's mine actually. I'm trying to get my hand on a reissue of a figurine of a Spawn of Cthulhu for a faux Aquatoid avatar. Yes indeedy.

 

Incidentally folks, chill. The discussion took a wrong turn and it's not surprising there are hurt feelings amongst the participants. It's started off over a frivolous matter but is devolving into personal attacks. It's not necessary, so please reel your respective furies in and save it for some other day.

 

Heavy Plasma Guns.

 

It is certainly very effective (or the most effective of the guns) for firing in a straight line and through some walls. Attacking over walls, around walls, up through upper level openings, etc, are best dealt with the indirect fire weapons. That's one thing I've always enjoyed about the early UFO games, it's not just the same old wooden sword - bronze sword - iron sword - gold sword (silly metal for a sword) - super mega ultimate sword method of weapon progression.

 

- NKF

[magic9mushroom]

It is certainly very effective (or the most effective of the guns) for firing in a straight line and through some walls. Attacking over walls, around walls, up through upper level openings, etc, are best dealt with the indirect fire weapons. That's one thing I've always enjoyed about the early UFO games, it's not just the same old wooden sword - bronze sword - iron sword - gold sword (silly metal for a sword) - super mega ultimate sword method of weapon progression.

 

- NKF

 

Eh, most of the problems with the Heavy Plasma Gun can be solved with more Heavy Plasma Gun. No cover short of a UFO hull can withstand sustained bombardment. Likewise, you can shoot out floors/ceilings. 35 rounds per clip goes a long way.

 

That's one of the things I like about TFTD, actually; there are more useful weapons because there isn't an ubercheese weapon like the HPG. Well, apart from the M.C. Disrupter, which is perhaps even more broken than the Psi-Amp in UFO (unless you use the backdoor into alien inventories).