Celatid attack damage.


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 silencer_pl

silencer_pl

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,387 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:29 AM

I have a question. I remember Celatid and Silacoid being useless in the original. However in OpenXcom I'm seeing and experiencing 1 shot kill through Power Armour from those dudes. Was it so dangerous in the original too?

Ufopaedia doesn't show how much resistant Power Suits are to acid / venom attacks. It only says it does 0.4 damage to tanks.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#2 Hobbes

Hobbes

    Peace through superior hairdos!

  • Fan Fiction
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Area 51

Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:49 AM

View Postsilencer_pl, on 13 July 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

I have a question. I remember Celatid and Silacoid being useless in the original. However in OpenXcom I'm seeing and experiencing 1 shot kill through Power Armour from those dudes. Was it so dangerous in the original too?

Ufopaedia doesn't show how much resistant Power Suits are to acid / venom attacks. It only says it does 0.4 damage to tanks.

I had that same question about the Celatids on OpenXCom but I've just checked and their acid attack is listed at 140 (higher than Heavy Plasma!) and the damage modifier for Power Suits and acid is 1.0.
Terrain Pack - 44 new terrains for the original game, using OpenXcom

My X-COM Fan Fictions: The Unknown Menace, Abyssal, Eulogy

#3 silencer_pl

silencer_pl

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,387 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:05 PM

That's what Ufopaedia states too 140 damage. But I really recall them being not that effective in the past. Hmm.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#4 Hobbes

Hobbes

    Peace through superior hairdos!

  • Fan Fiction
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Area 51

Posted 13 July 2014 - 01:08 PM

View Postsilencer_pl, on 13 July 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

That's what Ufopaedia states too 140 damage. But I really recall them being not that effective in the past. Hmm.

I also share your recollection that Celatids were not so effective in the original game. But to me It's either a false memory - I've had my share of those with the original game after getting back to playing it after long periods - or there's something else into play, possibly the AI, that is making them more effective.
Terrain Pack - 44 new terrains for the original game, using OpenXcom

My X-COM Fan Fictions: The Unknown Menace, Abyssal, Eulogy

#5 Tycho

Tycho

    Lieutenant

  • Project Staff
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 703 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 July 2014 - 02:31 PM

I suspect that there was a logical error in their attack in the original that had them miss a lot more at longer ranges.  They always seemed to hit often at a very close range but hardly at all when at the extreme range of their attack.  I think it had to do with how the game calculated the arc of their spit.  OXC probably has a different formula making them hit more often.

#6 silencer_pl

silencer_pl

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,387 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:42 PM

You are probably right. Same would go for the Deep Ones as they had to spit multiple times and strangely most wounds where in the legs.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#7 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,538 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:09 PM

View PostTycho, on 13 July 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

I think it had to do with how the game calculated the arc of their spit.  OXC probably has a different formula making them hit more often.

This.

Celatids were really deadly in the original game if you were up close. I used to do multiple smash-and-grabs on a Muton base for the loot, Elerium and points on the PSX version. Before I researched Small Launchers, I used Stun Rods to incapacitate a Muton then haul him upstairs and revive him so I could loot at my own pace. One time I stunned a Celatid and was hauling the thing back to the starting area because I needed a live one for research. The thing happened to revive in my backpack and was invisible the next round (just the [1] alien sighted indicator) and the darn thing killed the soldier in a Flying suit with no issues. Get about 10 tiles away though and the Celatid was pretty harmless. Posted Image

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#8 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:31 AM

Indeed, they had trouble firing at all if there was a ceiling directly over them, but if they hit you you'd certainly feel the pain. Using MC on them turned their weapon into a direct shot for the duration, making it even more lethal. Their ability to take damage is minimal, however, and I've got a hunch they can't fire reaction shots, so it's rare you'll see them firing at you in the first place...

Silacoids deal a fair bit of damage as well, but it's often not enough to outright kill a soldier and they're too slow to reliably get in range of your troops before being shot to pieces. It's also easy to know when you're getting close to one due to the destruction they leave in their path, so you won't often get ambushed, either.
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#9 silencer_pl

silencer_pl

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,387 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:17 AM

I've got reaction fired by Celatid so they can. At least in OpenXcom.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#10 Tycho

Tycho

    Lieutenant

  • Project Staff
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 703 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:10 AM

View PostBomb Bloke, on 15 July 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

Their ability to take damage is minimal, however, and I've got a hunch they can't fire reaction shots, so it's rare you'll see them firing at you in the first place...

They have such a limited range on their attack that I can't remember if I've ever seen one take reaction fire or not.  I suspect that they don't in the original game, since their attack has its own special code with restrictions.

#11 silencer_pl

silencer_pl

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,387 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:28 AM



Check at 6:55 and 20:05. It's OpenXcom and they might have changed something. I've seen them even adding reaction fire to Chrysalids. I haven't followed every change so I can't tell and I'm not knowledgeable in original code.

What bothered me is that second shot was kind of flat line I think.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#12 Tycho

Tycho

    Lieutenant

  • Project Staff
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 703 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:18 AM

It looks like their reaction shots follow standard rules for weapon fire.  It looks like your tank was outside the 10 range limit they should have. Do they arc spit on the alien turn?

#13 silencer_pl

silencer_pl

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,387 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

I've just checked - no they don't - and they definitely shoot from more than 10 tiles range. But I think the tank was shot by arc fire?
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#14 Tycho

Tycho

    Lieutenant

  • Project Staff
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 703 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2014 - 01:38 PM

It didn't seem so to me.  I think they just gave the celatid a regular attack, making it more like the cyberdisk but doing acid damage.

#15 silencer_pl

silencer_pl

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,387 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:06 PM

Check again. The tank and celatid were on ground level - however when shooting the view went up 3 levels then down ( you could see the top of UFO for a brief moment).
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#16 Hobbes

Hobbes

    Peace through superior hairdos!

  • Fan Fiction
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Area 51

Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:26 PM

View Postsilencer_pl, on 15 July 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

I've seen them even adding reaction fire to Chrysalids.

A.k.a. 'reaction bite' Posted Image First time I saw it I was like "WTF????"
Terrain Pack - 44 new terrains for the original game, using OpenXcom

My X-COM Fan Fictions: The Unknown Menace, Abyssal, Eulogy

#17 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:02 AM

Testing in CE, I can't get Celatids to fire reaction shots. I cloned about a dozen of them with maxed out TUs (or about four times their cap), then had my troopers wander around them - no response. Ended turn and they promptly squirted their acid spit everywhere.

Bear in mind they're not so much "changing" the code so much as they're "not noticing things they should be mimicking". It could be someone decided to turn a blind eye to the original behaviour intentionally, but it's just as likely a mistake.
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#18 Zombie

Zombie

    Mr. Grognard of X-COM

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,538 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:06 AM

It's been a while, but I seem to remember Celatids taking reaction shots in the PSX version. So it may be a bug that Celatids aren't taking reaction shots in CE. You would think it would be an easy fix if you could reuse the code for a different terror unit that does reaction fire. ;)

- Zombie

My X-COM Patch Kit For UFO Defense | Emergency XCOM Meeting spoof on YouTube




JellyfishGreen said:

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!

#19 Bomb Bloke

Bomb Bloke

    The Smily Admin

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,625 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tasmania (AU)

Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:18 AM

Don't suppose you can remember if the PSX version played their firing animation?

celatid_fire.gif
BB's X-Com Projects Page - X-Com Games At GamersGate
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me :P
We love Tammy! :)

#20 ñΩxicity

ñΩxicity

    Resident Åsshole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 576 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Louis, Missouri (US of A)

Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:10 AM

They didn't.
"If you win it's just a game, but if you lose it's a complete waste of time"

-Al Bundy (Married With Children)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users