1040 replies to this topic

[Lt.Havoc]

That looks great. Thanks for the update. But dont you think that 6500 and 11500 Dollars are not a bit too high price wise or is it hat easy to earn money in Sentinels? I do plan on playing it with Random Storm so at least that means there will be lots of stuff you can capture and sell from that. But maybe it should be possible to find some of those uniforms in random encounters.

Still trying to get the WWII Para Camo pattern seems impossible to find. If anyone else can provide it, I would be happy.

[BlunterII]

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That looks great. Thanks for the update. But dont you think that 6500 and 11500 Dollars are not a bit too high price wise or is it hat easy to earn money in Sentinels? I do plan on playing it with Random Storm so at least that means there will be lots of stuff you can capture and sell from that. But maybe it should be possible to find some of those uniforms in random encounters.

Still trying to get the WWII Para Camo pattern seems impossible to find. If anyone else can provide it, I would be happy.

Regular price for the armor in the game is somewhat high (light = $5000, medium = &12000, heavy = $20000). But considering the benefits it provides it is certainly worth the money. As for earning money , it depends. I am a pack rat, so multiple trips to the base to sell off various loot is not a problem for me. (the missions won't make you rich).

Now to the new textures. I am trying them in a seperate mod, since some overwriting is always involved and don't want to mess anything up in the "All Uniforms" mod. Once it looks decent I'll import it. Feedback is greatly appreciated ( just tell the truth )

Anyway, I found some of my old textures for SAS. Check them out:



They seem a bit too dark, espeially the soldier, don't they?

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The devart pack you provided a link for had some nice camo textures. Made a desert SAS and a German Summer camo. What do you think?



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and this:



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About those medical and engineering items - do you know what exactly they changed to make them easier to use? The mod description is not really helpful to me  

Oh, and if you happen to stumble upon any winter textures, please post the link (not just clothes. Walls too...)

(to be continued)



~Blunter~

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, I checked the readme of the Easier Items mod and thats what it said:

Table RPGEngGrenades :
- Multiplied by 2/3 all skill required

Table RPGPicklocks :
- Multiplied by 2/3 all skill required
- Doubled the number of uses

Table RPGTools :
- Multiplied by 2/3 all NeededEngskills

Table RPGFirstAids :
- Multiplied by 2/3 all skill required

I do not know what that means. All i know is that the skill requirement for the items was lower then in the vanilla game and that you could use the items more often, meaning your Engi or Medic would get more Experience points by using the items. That was at least the case with my Engi who I had try to open all doors, all closed boxes etc and got her to a skill of almost 60 during my play through.

The only other thing you could do is to try and contact the guy who made the mod, seeing that the mod was posted here on this very site the person should still have a account here. If not I say you simply reduce the skill requirement of all the items by like 10 to 20 points and leave your modification in that Engis and Medics start with 3 perks you can choose from.

Now lets talk about the uniforms: the first 2 guys you said where SAS look more like they belong to some South American Army of some Banana republic run by a Dictator then SAS. Still the camo textures look very good.

The Red Berets are fine but as far as I know, when the SAS was re-established in 1947, they got a Sand/Tan colored beret, so its up to you what beret you use. The most common camo they wore was either the one piece SOE coverall or the Dension Smock both in the Bushstroke/Dension camo where I still try to find textures for.

Still, there was no standard kit anyway so yeah they would wear other stuff as well.

About the Sumpfmuster:

German Fallshrimjäger 1944. The Sumpfmuster was mostly used for the Airborne Smock called Knochensack by Germans. It was worn over the regular uniform, in the case of the Fallschrimjäger, it was blue, but desert tan uniforms also existed. See here:



So yeah the Sumpfmuster was also used in a desert Setting as this color plate shows. The pattern was rather universal and there was a 2 piece over suit design that was worn over the regular uniform in cold weather that was all white on one side and the other had the Sumpfmuster. Also note how the brown version of the SS Peadot camo is used here as a desert camo by the soldier in the middle.

The Eichenlaub muster uniform is okay with me.

About Winter camo: during and after WWII the most basic winter camo was either a 2 piece or one piece over suit that was simply white in color. Special Winter Camo patterns came much later, I think the German Bundeswehr got such suits in the 60s or 70s.


Here is the basic german winter camo of WWII. 2 piece white oversuits worn over the regular uniform and winter gear. the Russians basically did the same.



Russian Soldiers in Stalingrad with Snow suits.

The USA didnt had such suits during the war, but the US Soldiers would improvise by using white sheets of cloth that would be put over the uniform:





Other then that they of course had the warm overcoats and stuff like this that where not in any camo colors as seen in the color plate.

Anyway I will still look out for winter textures regardless. So I hope this post was informative to you and I hope the images are not too large.

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, was looking though some flicker and found a very well done drawing of the SAS in WWII.


As you can see, they wear Dension Smocks in the typical camo, brown trousers and black boots. Also note the weapons, M1 Carbines, Thompson's and  Bren Gun. Anyway, you can find tons of more images here as reference:

Let me know if you have any questions about them.

[BlunterII]

Thank you for the links and pictures. Beautiful! That artist is very talented.
I tried to put that sumpfmuster on an Italian soldier today - and, well it didn't go so well.
I am not a modeler and pretty much stuck with the models already present in the game - which means I create a texture - import it - create material - add material on a model - check if it is ok or not and then either make a uniform or redo the texture/ adjust it - reimport it - rinse and repeat...
Anyway, it's not a big deal. Just a little bit disappointed that the guy with the scarf didn't come out as good as I thought he should have. Oh well....

BTW, the pictures you posted are very inspirational. Thank you, Lt.
I don't have any specific questions about the uniforms yet, still making changes and tweaks in the values and such.

Now, back to medical and engineering.

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Well, I checked the readme of the Easier Items mod and thats what it said:

Table RPGEngGrenades :
- Multiplied by 2/3 all skill required

Table RPGPicklocks :
- Multiplied by 2/3 all skill required
- Doubled the number of uses

Table RPGTools :
- Multiplied by 2/3 all NeededEngskills

Table RPGFirstAids :
- Multiplied by 2/3 all skill required

I do not know what that means. All i know is that the skill requirement for the items was lower then in the vanilla game and that you could use the items more often, meaning your Engi or Medic would get more Experience points by using the items. That was at least the case with my Engi who I had try to open all doors, all closed boxes etc and got her to a skill of almost 60 during my play through.

The only other thing you could do is to try and contact the guy who made the mod, seeing that the mod was posted here on this very site the person should still have a account here. If not I say you simply reduce the skill requirement of all the items by like 10 to 20 points and leave your modification in that Engis and Medics start with 3 perks you can choose from.

I got it. Here's what I did:
- Reduced the skill requiment. Lowered it ~ 30% (i.e. if it was 60 - it is 40 now, etc.)
- Increased some of the items quantities (ex.: was 3 - now it's 5)
- The "no use again for N turns" number for medical items now equals the duration of the drug. IOW you can use it again right after its effect expires.
- The same with engineering items (weapon repair and demining equipment)
- Left alone those special perks requiments for a couple of high end items (unchanged)

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About the perks:
I disabled automatic distribution of hirelings' perks. Ex.: If you hire Fritz (lev. 14) you'll get to pick 13 perks for him. basically, it gives you freedom to give them the perks you think they'll be most useful with (not someone else picking them for you)

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I also changed some of the Classes' values and base values.
By default, some of the mercenaries had horrible values - especially Dex. I rearranged some of the starting points to give them a bit more Dex, since Dex (in my opinion, of course) is the most important attribute primarily affecting available APs and shooting skill.

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In addition I modified the speed of Attribute growth. It used to be 2x for primary attribute determined by the character's profession (Scout - Dex, Engineer - Int, Grenadier - Str) and 1x for everything else. Now it is 3x, and Dex is 2x for every merc and the player.

Please, tell me what you think of the changes listed above.

Thanks for the feedback and all the info so far. It's very useful!

We'll get back to the uniforms in a bit.


(to be continued)


~Blunter~

[Lt.Havoc]

I am fine with these changes you made regarding Items and PCs, I just hope that this wont make the game too easy but from what I heard Sentinels is a lot harder then Silent Storm so I somehow doubt that. We would have to test this. Any idea when you are going to release the mod?

Sorry to hear that putting the sumpfmuster onto the Italian did not work out. In the german camo pack you downloaded there should be 3 Italian camos, maybe you should try one of them. The result may look like this:



Drawing of a Italian Paratrooper in the typical Italian Camo pattern. Also You should check out this site here: http://www.kamouflage.net/ and this: http://camopedia.org...title=Main_Page these sites provide an overview of the various camo patterns around the world.

Just look for the countries and you will find tons of info.

Anyway, we do not need to go with ultra realism regarding the uniforms anyway, seeing that Sentinels is set after WWII and that we play Mercenaries and Mercs often to wear what they can get their hands on. See what I say about the Uniforms as guidelines rather then strict rules. So see what works best with the textures on the models.

By the way: do you still have the maps of your H&S mod? I was wondering if it maybe possible to implement them as random encounter maps in Silent Storm. This would of course not be the focus of this mod here but maybe as a stand alone mod it might be interesting.

[BlunterII]

Lt.Havoc, on 26 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

I am fine with these changes you made regarding Items and PCs, I just hope that this wont make the game too easy but from what I heard Sentinels is a lot harder then Silent Storm so I somehow doubt that. We would have to test this.

Yes, testing would be necessary here. I am not sure how all those changes will affect the general gameplay.
The attribute growth changes don't seem to make the characters overpowered. Here is what happens:



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Any idea when you are going to release the mod?

I can release it any time, really. It is ~ 220 kb right now (without any textures imported).
Basically , here is what's been done so far:
- Added most of the already existing models as uniforms to the seller (at the prices you suggested)
- Small camos (black & fall variants are available for females only)
- Camos with gas masks have been added (Allied - "Alpha", German - "double filter", Terror - "TRR" versions implemented)
- Some combinations of body model and headgear added (leather berets primarily)
- Terror line of uniforms is now named "trooper", "heavy trooper", "armored trooper" uniforms
- enables most of those uniforms' to wear body armor
- Some uniforms ("armored trooper") have their own armor rating (the option to wear body armor for them - removed)
- Med and Engineering items are with the changes you proposed - 2/3 of the original requirements, lower end items have more uses, penalty to not use a "boost" type of item for "N" turns = the number of turns the "boost" effect lasts (and some other minor ones I added)
- Changes in Classes and base values discussed above
- More specialized class skill values (Engineer at lev. 15 will have their Engineering skill > 190, for example, while sniping will be miniscule.) Example:



Here, Fritz is posing as an Engineer, lev. 14, base values borrowed from Oleg. No additional points were added, only redistributed (arbitrarily) the existing ones to emphasize one's profession.

An interesting side effect of this change is that not only your engineer's mines and dynamite will become more deadly but your fixing ability at a certain point will surpass the Base Seller's.

I tested it.Here are the results:

1. Before firing the weapon



2. After firing it a couple of times and fixing it.



Fascinating, isn't it? The actual durability will increase. So will the damage (after certain number of Dur. increases)
I can see some abusing this, but why be a jack of all trades when you can be really good at only one or two things?

Thoughts?

- Grenade Range increased (by reducing Grenades' weight by 50%)
- Mercs will have their perks "flashing" (not taken yet) for you to pick.
- A Sniper rifle and a silenced pistol are available ealier (2nd mission - "Test of loyalty")

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Sorry to hear that putting the sumpfmuster onto the Italian did not work out. In the german camo pack you downloaded there should be 3 Italian camos, maybe you should try one of them. The result may look like this:..Drawing of a Italian Paratrooper in the typical Italian Camo pattern.

Yes, thanks for the image. I think I found a perfect model for that in the game, but it took some time fitting the texture on it. There are indeed several "telo mimeticos" in the pack but the hue values are insanely high (would make the Italian guy look like a clown) and some of the colors are a bit off. I had to rework it a bit. Check it out:





I used the "German Agent #1" model for this and the Italian soldier cap with the reworked "sewer pipe" texture. I know - silly. It looked second hand in the picture so I went in that direction.
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Also You should check out this site here: http://www.kamouflage.net/ and this: http://camopedia.org...title=Main_Page these sites provide an overview of the various camo patterns around the world.
Just look for the countries and you will find tons of info.

Thanks, Lt. those are great sites.

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Anyway, we do not need to go with ultra realism regarding the uniforms anyway, seeing that Sentinels is set after WWII and that we play Mercenaries and Mercs often to wear what they can get their hands on. See what I say about the Uniforms as guidelines rather then strict rules. So see what works best with the textures on the models.

Definitely.

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By the way: do you still have the maps of your H&S mod? I was wondering if it maybe possible to implement them as random encounter maps in Silent Storm. This would of course not be the focus of this mod here but maybe as a stand alone mod it might be interesting.

I'd have to build them from scratch for this or any other S^3 mod. Do you have any specific ones in mind.
(I didn't post all of the ones I had, museum, opera house, some german towns, Russian winter Stalingrad ones, etc.They never made it to the blog since they were under construction.)
You know we can think of some new ones. I like working on templates. Well, actually, I don't mind - redoing the whole Sentinel scenario or making a new one for that matter.
It could be anything...

- Sandbox with a bunch of randoms and some general goal (getting rich or becoming some local leader, with a few local factions to befriend or to destroy). Some Central neutral location might serve as a base.

- Or something linear - escape or pursuit type of scenario (no base)

- Clue driven - investigation type of plot (with twists and turns) - doing things as part of a job (NKVD, SD, MI6, etc....)

- Missions / Special operations (similar to current S^2, S^3 design, with someone else driving the plot)

- ...???
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Let me know what you think.

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(to be continued)

~Blunter~

[Lt.Havoc]

Well that is interesting that you can even increase durability. Not sure if it is game breaking or not, it would need further testing. I was pondering if I should use that mod that turns off durability or not but seeing this I may not even need that at all. So far everything looks okay to me but I am just a single person and so far not many folks have looked into this thread and posted. I maybe should promote this thread or something.

The Italian Paratrooper looks fantastic, thats exactly what I wanted to see. Is this uniform a replacer of the normal Italian soldier one? Thing is, looking back at the original model and the strange textures used on it, I think it would be even better to have your version as a replacer for that uniform. That of course depends if you still want to create 2 versions of this mod, one vanilla and one using the new camo textures.

Also yes the camo pack had all versions that existed of that pattern included, meant to be used for wooden, arid and desert areas. Speaking of camo uniforms: I finally got the Dension camo texture. I am not sure if it will be useful or not and I am also not sure what model you are going to fit it on (my guess would be the british commando models with the red berets) but here they are:

http://i4.photobucke...swoopscloth.jpg

http://i4.photobucke...on2seamless.jpg

http://i4.photobucke...enison2camo.jpg

See if these textures are useful to you or not. Also, I dug out some French lizard camo. It was the first camo pattern to be issued to the French Army after WWII, it was first issued in 1947 and became very popular in the 50s and 60s Many countries copied the pattern. Here is the link:

http://i4.photobucke...attern-camo.jpg

Also on my search regarding camouflage in the US Army in WWII I found out some very interesting things. The Airborne Pathfinder units would often hand apply camo to their M1942 Uniforms. That looked like this:



However, because of the demand for a special camo uniform for Rangers, Raiders and Pathfinders, the USA started producing M1942 suits in the Marine pacific camo:


US Army Paratrooper with the M1942 camo uniform using a Flamethrower


Full Uniform of the M1942 Paratrooper variant in camo.


Close up of the shirt.

These where later given to French Forces in Indochina. Why do I bring that up? Because I looked through you blog and found a image of your models you created by re-skinning existing ones and you had marked one as US Army Ranger and it looked like you had put a woodland texture on it. In short: put the Pacific Camo texture I provided on this model and you have a Ranger (The US Soldier NPC model, not the US Officer one).

The only problem I have with that model are these damn puttees around the boots. Soldiers hated them for a reason, they suck up water and get wet, start to stink after awhile, rub on your ankles and you cant take them easily on and off. Also with the introduction of ankle height boots there is no reason for them to exist. That one Partisan model with the cap could be a substitute, it would then look like the alamo scout:



The guy on the right side with the spotted camo. That would be this camo btw: http://upload.wikime.../Duckhunter.JPG


Green version


Brown Beach Camo version.

I do think I gave you almost all the variants used by the USA. So try these textures out and see what works best.

Say did you test the Splittermusters in the German Camo pack yet? They should work well one some of the german models. Interesting fact: the Splittermuster was used after the war by the German Armed Forces again (the Bundeswehr), these uniforms used variants of the Splittermuster and was worn in the late 50s to the 60s until they where replaced by the standard Olive green uniforms.

As for the maps: I am not sure if we should redo the whole Sentinels scenario just yet (still need to play the vanilla Sentinels campaign), but having some additional missions (if thats possible) to play would be great, you know for fame and fortune.

I could think of various missions: for example, a mission where you have to capture a ex-Nazi Spy and turn him over to the authorities. He would be hiding in some small house somewhere either in Germany or some other country and be guarded by some bodyguards or something. You have to prevent him from reaching his car.

Or what about some run ins with smugglers and bandits? Thats always fun to raid thier hideouts and take the stuff they have.

Speaking of smuggling: Why not have a mission set in Egypt where a famous Archaeologist asks you for help in recovering an item from tomb raiders? These are just ideas, but you had some very interesting maps like:

Germany: Road and Crop
Germany: Manor
Various Bandit Camps
You redid several German Towns
German Forests (perfect base for criminals to operate from in post war Germany)

Also you did a Castle map, that map would fit more into Silent Storm but Sentinels work just as well. I had this idea, just as the Egypt mission is a homage to the Indy movies, this mission would be a homage to the Wolfenstein games where you have to rescue a US agent named BJ Blazkowicz from THO or some other bad guys.

So yeah, just some of my ideas. Tell me what you think.

[BlunterII]

Hey, Lt., thank you for the feedback and the info.
I am not sure if these bear close resemblance to some of the images you provided but here they are:



The 1st Infantry is just for reference here. I created that uniform for my "Back to Berlin" plot (along with the 16th Constabulary, British Royal military police, etc.)

Another couple of uniforms:



I might have to redo the cap. I think Sentinel Fem Officer/ Terror officer model is more appropriate.

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I am still digging through some of my old files uncovering random treasures. Yesterday I found Fem face alternative textures. Added some make up for some memorable characters.



I could include these too. Or make even more? What do you think?

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Well that is interesting that you can even increase durability. Not sure if it is game breaking or not, it would need further testing. I was pondering if I should use that mod that turns off durability or not but seeing this I may not even need that at all. So far everything looks okay to me but I am just a single person and so far not many folks have looked into this thread and posted. I maybe should promote this thread or something.

Yes, I understand there were quite a few folks on the GoG forums interested in modding. It could bring new ideas and useful references. Perhaps, we could find a dialog writer or someone will volunteer to make new models...( i.e. jeeps, AK 74 line of weapons, a new train and passenger cars, American M??? assault rifles, bamboo and jungle trees (for Pacific type of operations. Japan, Vietnam, etc) and most of all water. I can imitate water with textures, splashing sounds from STALKER and textures from the small fountain from S^2. But movement and ripples - nope. In essence - we could benefit from more people participating (or at least cheering and encouraging).  
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The Italian Paratrooper looks fantastic, thats exactly what I wanted to see. Is this uniform a replacer of the normal Italian soldier one? Thing is, looking back at the original model and the strange textures used on it, I think it would be even better to have your version as a replacer for that uniform. That of course depends if you still want to create 2 versions of this mod, one vanilla and one using the new camo textures.

Thanks. I haven't done any bumps for him (maybe later). I wouldn't overwrite anything, of course, but if you think we need to get rid of the vanilla Italian Paratrooper - I can disable his uniform (simple, really) or just leave it as is.

I am going to be releasing this in two versions:1. No new textures and 2. With new textures.
I'll need to clean it up a bit and upload number 1 for testing.
Number 2 we can continue to work on OR enrich Sentinels with a bunch of new encounters OR stop doing new textures and start working on a new plot while working only on relevant to the plot textures.

What do you think?
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Very interesting info about the denison camo. The sample area is a bit too small for me to use though.




Looks great. If only it were a little larger. I know it is seemless but I would need a better quality I think.
That's what happened when I prepared it for skinning.



Those folding lines mean trouble to me. Regarless, the pattern is awesome.

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A quick question about insignia. Do we need it? I have some old transparent textures I made a year or two ago (German uniforms primarily) and the original game has some too. Here are the original German ones:



I remember doing some for Soviet occupational forces in Germany. I drew them directly on their uniforms instead of using a separate texture. I didn't know where the special texture spots were located on their models at the time. When I got to the German ones I already figured it out. I'll post them in a bit...

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(to be continued)


~Blunter~

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, these American Uniforms look okay, they just need a bit tweaking. The size of the pattern is a bit too large, specially the helmet and pants, it would need to made smaller if possible. You could also leave the helmet green and dont give it a texture altogether same with the cap. See what you can do if you cant do it I will see if I can get the camo-club people to rework the pattern a bit so its better fitting.

I was afraid that the Dension camo was not large enough, I will contact the guy right away and see if he can make a bigger pattern. How big should it be size wise to fit better anyway (pixle x pixle)? That would help me to get the fitting camos for you.

I will see that I promote this thread over at the GOG:com forums and maybe people will join. We have to see. As for the female faces with makeup: I dont think we need them, I never heard of soldiers wearing makeup before, even mercs. It would be interesting for NPCs like civilians and all but PCs? Not sure.

Hmm, as for the Insignias: good question. I dont think we need them to be honest. Its set after the war and I doubt that Mercenaries wear insignias. I mean the Sentinels want to have a low profile so they would not even wear ranks if there is a rank structure anyway. There where some professional Mercenary units like the 5 commando who wore insignias and ranks and whatnot but that was in the early 60s so long after Sentinels. The only other thing we could do is introduce special Sentinels insignias for the custom uniforms, but thats up to you. Ya know a logo of the force. Other then that, we dont really need any insignias,  

And yes lets first finish the mod at hand, meaning version 1 and version 2 should add new uniforms and stuff and nothing else, we can go and work on custom campaigns later on after this is finished. You may, if you want, throw in some random encounter maps if you are in the mood but right now, the uniforms are more then enough and more then I can hope and ask for. It is pretty amazing that you take your time to do this mod in the first place. I dont think I can ever repay you for this.

[BlunterII]

Lt.Havoc, on 29 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Well, these American Uniforms look okay, they just need a bit tweaking. The size of the pattern is a bit too large, specially the helmet and pants, it would need to made smaller if possible. You could also leave the helmet green and dont give it a texture altogether same with the cap. See what you can do if you cant do it I will see if I can get the camo-club people to rework the pattern a bit so its better fitting.

Got it!



The culprit was the body texture itself. Usually they use body and leg (arms) textures separately. But in case with the U.S. soldier arms are separate while the body is combined with the legs. Legs part is therefore stretched - which created this distorting effect. Fixed! (No need to ask the author to rework it, I already did it myself)

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I was afraid that the Dension camo was not large enough, I will contact the guy right away and see if he can make a bigger pattern. How big should it be size wise to fit better anyway (pixle x pixle)? That would help me to get the fitting camos for you.

I know you already provided a picture of a quartet of British Commandoes a few posts up. I am still unclear about the scale of the pattern when applied to those uniforms. A close up (front, preferably) would be great.

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I will see that I promote this thread over at the GOG:com forums and maybe people will join. We have to see. As for the female faces with makeup: I dont think we need them, I never heard of soldiers wearing makeup before, even mercs. It would be interesting for NPCs like civilians and all but PCs? Not sure.

All right, I might apply those to NPC females only

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Hmm, as for the Insignias: good question. I dont think we need them to be honest. Its set after the war and I doubt that Mercenaries wear insignias. I mean the Sentinels want to have a low profile so they would not even wear ranks if there is a rank structure anyway. There where some professional Mercenary units like the 5 commando who wore insignias and ranks and whatnot but that was in the early 60s so long after Sentinels. The only other thing we could do is introduce special Sentinels insignias for the custom uniforms, but thats up to you. Ya know a logo of the force. Other then that, we dont really need any insignias,

I agree. On the other hand we don't really need to limit ourselves to the late 40s early 50s. Besides the whole Sentinels organization idea (I am talking about the underlying premise only) - was somewhat undercooked. Just my opinion, of course.

I am trying to look ahead and see what we might need to expand the plot or create a new one. I try not to rule out 1920's, 30s, early 40's either. At least not until we settle on what it is.

Btw, here are some SS uniform insignias I made:

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And yes lets first finish the mod at hand, meaning version 1 and version 2 should add new uniforms and stuff and nothing else, we can go and work on custom campaigns later on after this is finished.

Well, we haven't tried the eichenlaub fall version and some other ones yet. Any idea about the model for that?  

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You may, if you want, throw in some random encounter maps if you are in the mood but right now,

What kind of randoms are you thinking about?

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the uniforms are more then enough and more then I can hope and ask for. It is pretty amazing that you take your time to do this mod in the first place. I dont think I can ever repay you for this.

Just stick with me - that's good enough, really (persistency along with friendly and courteous demeanor of yours are great for team work. Couldn't ask for anything more)  

We'll finish this and then some.

I'll be cleaning up the "All Uniforms" v 1.0 (no textures) to get it ready for testing.

(to be continued)

~Blunter~

[Lt.Havoc]

now thats more like it! These US Army Camo uniform look really good now. Good job there. As for the closeup about the Deniosn Smock, no problem at all:

http://mpmuseum.org/postpara.html





There hope that helps. Where easy to find actually, just googled "Denison Smock" and found lots of hits.

About the SS Uniforms: they look really good, but there is something I wonder. Going by the Story of Silent Storm and its alternative reality/universe setting, I dont think Germany is ruled by Nazis, then you do not see any Hackenkreuz flags or symbols anywhere and in one document you find on the Allied side, regarding that British Colonel that spying for the germans, that Germany is still a Republic. Also note that they never call them Nazis in the game, they just call them Germans.

There are several alternate history stories where Hitler never came to power like "Hitler the Painter" where Hitler wins some money during a dice game, goes to the USA and becomes a painter there or the idea that Hitler dies in prison or dies during WWI. After playing Silent Strom I thought up my own idea about an Alternative History setting where the Nazis never took power but a different party, while Nationalistic, not so extreme. The Second World war would still take place under different pretenses, with accelerated scientific progress resulting in all sorts of Sci-f weapons. The point is that in this setting, the SS never existed, instead there would be a group called "Wolfpack" or better "Die Wölfe" a group of overzealous officers that would try to ensure Germany´s victory at all costs.

Worked into the Silent Strom story, these guys would try to develop the nuclear bomb before the USA and would try to use the THO weapons and gear for their purposes. Of course they failed, but the idea is that the Sentinels would also try to fight them as well after the war, because they still want to rebuild a German empire. The Sentinels organization would fight the THO and Die Wölfe as well as their auxiliaries troops/organizations.

So with that we could very well give the Sentinels a rank structure and insignias then, same with THO and Wolfpack. I bet we could easily come up with logos, ranks and whatnot for this.  

I know everyone likes the idea of killing Nazis as the ultimate bad guys because of the history, but there is so much unpleasant stuff attached to that I would like to avoid. We could still keep the black uniforms and whatnot and change the insignias a bit and your SS Soldiers would fit again into this scenario.  

So what do you think about that idea in the first place? I think it would make for a interesting story with twist and turns.

[Mantra2k]

Is there a download for this? I can't see one in the OP!

If not, don't let this mod die! It's looking really great!

[Lt.Havoc]

The mod is not finished yet, but will hopefully be finished soon. So you need to wait a bit. I guess Blunter is busy getting the textures right and whatnot.

Also some other suggestions for the mod: seeing that Sentinels is really hard from the get go, I would say that your character you created should start with a higher level, like level 4 and slightly adjusted stats. You just got released from the military after all and a a veteran and a Lt. to boot, so it makes no sense that you start with level 1 and have to re-learn everything all over again. I am wondering if you are really playing your old character or a totally new one because the Major calls you a Lt. and your Pc doesnt even know about Thors hammer at all.

Anyway just something to consider.

[BlunterII]

Mantra2k, on 01 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Is there a download for this? I can't see one in the OP!

If not, don't let this mod die! It's looking really great!

Not yet. I am still working on it. Version 1.0 will be out in a couple of days, I am almost done with it.
V2.0 is in development.

Lt.Havoc, on 01 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

The mod is not finished yet, but will hopefully be finished soon. So you need to wait a bit. I guess Blunter is busy getting the textures right and whatnot.

Sorry, took so long. I am still having trouble with Denison. It's either too brignt or too cololess. Maybe the UK saboteur model is not the one I should go with. I don't know...

Anyway, I made some uniforms from the derivative textures I ended up with. Have a look:




and here is another one:




I might need to clean them up a bit...
_______________________________________________________________________

Quote

Also some other suggestions for the mod: seeing that Sentinels is really hard from the get go, I would say that your character you created should start with a higher level, like level 4 and slightly adjusted stats. You just got released from the military after all and a a veteran and a Lt. to boot, so it makes no sense that you start with level 1 and have to re-learn everything all over again. I am wondering if you are really playing your old character or a totally new one because the Major calls you a Lt. and your Pc doesnt even know about Thors hammer at all.

Anyway just something to consider.

I'll look into that, Lt. Thanks. (Btw, did you break the door in the basement where you started? There is an MP 40 smg in the chest, and some grenades too. Makes the first missions so much easier).

Addressing your previous post:

Quote

About the SS Uniforms: they look really good, but there is something I wonder. Going by the Story of Silent Storm and its alternative reality/universe setting, I dont think Germany is ruled by Nazis, then you do not see any Hackenkreuz flags or symbols anywhere and in one document you find on the Allied side, regarding that British Colonel that spying for the germans, that Germany is still a Republic. Also note that they never call them Nazis in the game, they just call them Germans.

Thanks, Lt. It took me a bit of time to get those insignia right.

As for the setting in the original - I think they (Nival and Jowood) were just catering to europian sensitivities, nothing more. The advertising campaign for the game was already pretty poor but with Nazi flags and symbols S^2 could have even been banned in some countries. (Beside, the Russians used German - Fascist - Nazi interchangeably then. Calling them Germans does not necessarily differentiate them from the other two). Just my two cents, of course.

Quote

There are several alternate history stories where Hitler never came to power like "Hitler the Painter" where Hitler wins some money during a dice game, goes to the USA and becomes a painter there or the idea that Hitler dies in prison or dies during WWI. After playing Silent Strom I thought up my own idea about an Alternative History setting where the Nazis never took power but a different party, while Nationalistic, not so extreme. The Second World war would still take place under different pretenses, with accelerated scientific progress resulting in all sorts of Sci-f weapons. The point is that in this setting, the SS never existed, instead there would be a group called "Wolfpack" or better "Die Wölfe" a group of overzealous officers that would try to ensure Germany´s victory at all costs.

Worked into the Silent Strom story, these guys would try to develop the nuclear bomb before the USA and would try to use the THO weapons and gear for their purposes. Of course they failed, but the idea is that the Sentinels would also try to fight them as well after the war, because they still want to rebuild a German empire. The Sentinels organization would fight the THO and Die Wölfe as well as their auxiliaries troops/organizations.

Yes, I remember "Hitler The Painter", someone gave me a printout of that story. I even imported a couple of his works into the game as a side quest from an "eccentric collector".

It seems people like to give a lot of significance to various personalities disregarding the fact that those folks (Hitler, Stalin, Washington, Ghandi) did not exist in a vacuum but were just one man making decisions based on the environment surrounding them (economy, prevailing ideas at the time, other people around them). Demonizing them certainly serves its purpose - assignment of blame primarily, but to me... I don't buy it.

I can imagine that the war would probably have happened anyway - whether with Hitler being the front man or not.

Now the "Die Wolfe" is something we could definitely develop further if we decide to go the alt history route. One thing is important for me though.

I'd like to know about THO and Sentinels' handlers and sources, but most importantly - How these two large organizations manage to exist and conduct their operations right under the noses of several powerful and rather paranoid nations, those nations' militaries and intelligence?
How do they recruit people?
What kind of people do they attract and what career opportunities are there for their members?
How do they remain clandestine?
How do they finance their operations?
What is their chain of command?
And the crucial issue is - their agenda? The question "what for" ...need to be answered.

That's what I meant when I refered to the idea of Sentinels as "undercooked". None of those things are  explained neither in S^2 nor its successor. As part of the investigation (S^2) it is passable but in sentinels it would need to be addressed.

Perhaps, we'll be able to figure that out prior to getting too deep into the scenario because I need to accept the premise before getting excited about the rest of the story.

___________________________________________________

Anyway, I'll need to enter the new classes in the database (otherwise they won't have any perk panels attached) and then look throught the entries one more time before releasing v1.0 (just to make sure I didn't miss anything big). Give me a couple of days

And then I will start a new thread (scenario and plot).
___________________________________________________

Quote

So with that we could very well give the Sentinels a rank structure and insignias then, same with THO and Wolfpack. I bet we could easily come up with logos, ranks and whatnot for this.  

I know everyone likes the idea of killing Nazis as the ultimate bad guys because of the history, but there is so much unpleasant stuff attached to that I would like to avoid. We could still keep the black uniforms and whatnot and change the insignias a bit and your SS Soldiers would fit again into this scenario.  

So what do you think about that idea in the first place? I think it would make for a interesting story with twist and turns.

Sure. "Die Wolfe" sounds interesting. Let's develop the back story more, first. Who backs them (financially) and why? Who is at war? etc.

___________________________________________________

(to be continued)

~ Blunter ~

[Ecthel013]

BlunterII, on 02 February 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I'd like to know about THO and Sentinels' handlers and sources, but most importantly - How these two large organizations manage to exist and conduct their operations right under the noses of several powerful and rather paranoid nations, those nations' militaries and intelligence?
How do they recruit people?
What kind of people do they attract and what career opportunities are there for their members?
How do they remain clandestine?
How do they finance their operations?
What is their chain of command?
And the crucial issue is - their agenda? The question "what for" ...need to be answered.

1) Recruitment is probably carried out by headhunting specific people, specifically chosen for their demonstrated capabilities during WW2. THO may also recruit criminals as cannon fodder, and may be less picky about their ex-soldiers as well.
2) Former soldiers/intelligence officers who couldn't reintegrate back into civilian life, or those still serving that are looking for extra money or the chance to save/rule the world. As for careers, I would assume the Sentinels simply provide a solid paycheck and job satisfaction, while THO probably offers secure jobs and privileges for when they're in charge of the world. Undercover agents for either side might also gain ranks (and appropriate paychecks) in their official line of work through subtle manipulation from their real bosses, so they have more access to information.
3) Presumably, using the aforementioned undercover agents. It could also be that the governments are simply too busy with each other and the aftermath of the war to look carefully at these two (it's only been a year or so since the war ended). The Sentinels might also have unofficial backing from some of them.
4) Probably either from their members' civilian jobs and/or unofficial/diverted government funding. Selling treasures hidden during the war, like the paintings you can find in-game, might also be part of it. Both recruit from the former Axis nations, after all, so it's likely that some of them might know about these caches.
5) Both the Sentinels and THO mostly consist of ex-military personnel, so a similar structure is likely. I think the Sentinels are commanded by a (former?) Colonel, but it's been a while since I last played S3. THO might be cell-based instead/in addition, though, as they're a secretive terrorist organization.
6) THO wants to rule the world, the Sentinels want to stop them (and presumably anyone else who tries something similar). That's pretty much it, as far as I can tell.

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, Blunter, these British Commandos look very nice. Now that we have the British uniforms down I guess next you should try the Russian Patterns. What are your plans for V2 anyway, just add all the uniforms/textures I provided? Any idea how long this might take? Keep up the good work, mate.

Yes the marketing for Silent Storm was piss poor that is why it is often overlooked and seen as a very obscure game. Thankfully due to GOG.com and the recommendations from others the game seems to have a revival of some sort.

Your point about how these people you listed where influenced by the environment is of course correct, but you also should not forget that these people knew how to influence others and get them to follow them. I do not think the Nazis had been very successful if they didnt had someone like Hitler that could attract a mass of people with his charisma, specially those who would support him. It is well known that the Nazis did very poorly and where seen as crazies and lunatics before Hitler managed to get the party under his control and get people to back him and whatnot. I think without him the NSDAP may have fallen apart due to internal strife, but alas we can only make assumptions.

I also said WWII would still have happened regardless. The idea I played with, was that instead of the Nazis, some other party comes to power, lead by Günter von Abt, a officer of the Reichswehr that wanted to save germany from splitting apart, due to the struggle between Nazis and Communists. von Abt would create Confederation of the Nordic States, by having Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland join Germany create a large empire in the middle of Europe. That would scare the crap out of the Soviets and a rivalry between Germany and Russia would lead to the outbreak of the Second World War.

The difference in this setting is, that Germany marches into Poland because they fear Russia would annex it first and both Russia and Germany would race to get as much countries under control as possible, leading to France and Britain declaring war on Germany. In turn, Germany crushed France and attacks Britain and even manages to get troops there, which would explain why in Silent Strom there are German soldiers in England. of course, the rest follows the same as in our world, Japan attacks Pearl Barbour, getting the USA involved all the while Germany and his allies try to defeat Russia and Italy calls for help in Africa and whatnot.

The war would end pretty much the same as in our world just a bit later in 1946/1947 because the Allies needed to retake Britain first before landing in Normandy and the fact that von Abt dies later in the war (1943/44) in a plane crash and is replaced by his right hand man who actually is a puppet of "Die Wölfe" who prolong the war by using all sorts of diselpunk sci-fi weapons, basically all the prototype weapons that never saw the day of light became major weapons of war on both sides of the conflict.

In this scenario, the Holocaust also never took place simply for the fact that Von Abt was not a antisemitic, nor batshit insane. However the war was still waged with the brutality like any other major conflict and left large parts of the world in ruins and millions dead.

Anyway, "Die Wölfe" where are group of officers within the German Army that got together in 1943 all the while THO tried to fulfill its plan and talked about how the German Empire could be saved and what to do with Von Abt who at this point, wanted to actualyl stop the war and negotiate with a peace with the allies. These officers then sabotaged Von Abts plane, killing him and replacing him with his right hand man, who was basically a puppet of Die Wölfe who acted as a Shadow Government. They came to the realization that the only way to win the war would be to develop a nuclear weapon before the Allies do.

To buy more time until this weapon was ready, the used the tech Thors Hammer had sold and provided them to at least slow down the allies only to notice that the allies also had Panzerkleins and that Thors Hammer was a threat to them as well once the war was over. This covert struggle of these 2 shadowy organizations drained them of manpower and resulted in the failure of both their plans.

After the war, both organizations where left in a weak condition but now it was the best time to rebuild and pursue the goals they had since the war.

For your questions, I think Ecthel013 already answered most of them but I had my own ideas regarding that. The Sentinels could very well been created during the meeting of 3 veteran officers of WW2 who where now without a job but knew that Thors Hammer still existed. You have the ex-SAS officer, Major Daniel Haig, the ex-OSS Agent Colonel James Withbourne and the ex-Abwehr Oberst Günhter von Kesseling who all met in Switzerland, tasked with creating a Shadow Army that should fight the sinister organizations in a post war world that head towards the Cold War.

Using their extensive ties to Intelligence Organizations and backed by powerful and influence figures of government, military and business, of both sides of the Iron Curtain (because they want to keep the balance of power) they managed to build up a potent force to deal with THO. I would also say that all these 3 officers would have been approached by the CIA/MI5 and asked if they would not like to create such an organization to keep the peace. They basically had a mission again and they took it.

Ecthel013 already covered THO so I will go and talk about Die Wölfe instead. But if you want I can write something up about THO as well.

As for Die Wölfe: They are made up of disgruntled  Ex- German Army soldiers and officers and at the outset would earn money by being Mercenaries, doing even the most dirty jobs, like being hired by mobsters and terrorists and such. However their main goal is to get revenge of those they deem traitors and to end the occupation and stop the forming of the Federal German Republic. For that they would act as terrorists. They use German Army ranks, plus special ranks like "Leitwolf", "Rudel Führer" and such for the top elite of their organization. They are ruthless, cunning and armed to the teeth. They would attract people who think similar as them, as well as ex-axis soldiers who do not know what to do with their life and such.


So, what do you think about this? Is that any good? Thats just what I have been thinking about so far.

[Ecthel013]

Lt.Havoc, on 02 February 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

I also said WWII would still have happened regardless. The idea I played with, was that instead of the Nazis, some other party comes to power, lead by Günter von Abt, a officer of the Reichswehr that wanted to save germany from splitting apart, due to the struggle between Nazis and Communists. von Abt would create Confederation of the Nordic States, by having Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland join Germany create a large empire in the middle of Europe. That would scare the crap out of the Soviets and a rivalry between Germany and Russia would lead to the outbreak of the Second World War.

The difference in this setting is, that Germany marches into Poland because they fear Russia would annex it first and both Russia and Germany would race to get as much countries under control as possible, leading to France and Britain declaring war on Germany. In turn, Germany crushed France and attacks Britain and even manages to get troops there, which would explain why in Silent Strom there are German soldiers in England. of course, the rest follows the same as in our world, Japan attacks Pearl Barbour, getting the USA involved all the while Germany and his allies try to defeat Russia and Italy calls for help in Africa and whatnot.

The war would end pretty much the same as in our world just a bit later in 1946/1947 because the Allies needed to retake Britain first before landing in Normandy and the fact that von Abt dies later in the war (1943/44) in a plane crash and is replaced by his right hand man who actually is a puppet of "Die Wölfe" who prolong the war by using all sorts of diselpunk sci-fi weapons, basically all the prototype weapons that never saw the day of light became major weapons of war on both sides of the conflict.

In this scenario, the Holocaust also never took place simply for the fact that Von Abt was not a antisemitic, nor batshit insane. However the war was still waged with the brutality like any other major conflict and left large parts of the world in ruins and millions dead.

Anyway, "Die Wölfe" where are group of officers within the German Army that got together in 1943 all the while THO tried to fulfill its plan and talked about how the German Empire could be saved and what to do with Von Abt who at this point, wanted to actualyl stop the war and negotiate with a peace with the allies. These officers then sabotaged Von Abts plane, killing him and replacing him with his right hand man, who was basically a puppet of Die Wölfe who acted as a Shadow Government. They came to the realization that the only way to win the war would be to develop a nuclear weapon before the Allies do.

To buy more time until this weapon was ready, the used the tech Thors Hammer had sold and provided them to at least slow down the allies only to notice that the allies also had Panzerkleins and that Thors Hammer was a threat to them as well once the war was over. This covert struggle of these 2 shadowy organizations drained them of manpower and resulted in the failure of both their plans.

After the war, both organizations where left in a weak condition but now it was the best time to rebuild and pursue the goals they had since the war.

Just some quibbles I have, though I really like the overall idea.

1) I highly doubt Germany would be allowed to form that Confederation by the Allies, unless World War 1 ended very differently in this alternate universe.
1a) Also, if the Winter War between the Soviets and Finland still happens, that means the Confederation should be at war with them, which would deprive them of troops to conquer France. That said, if there aren't any official antisemitic policies, many from the Jewish populations are likely to serve in the armed forces, as well as not tying down the resources required to oppress them. This would probably still be insufficient, though, unless they started deploying those prototype weapons early.
2) Unless THO sold them a navy as well, the Confederation/Germany is unlikely to have the means necessary to make a landing in the UK, especially if they've got the Soviet Union on their other front.
2a) As a side note, those were special forces (probably members of Abwehr II, their Sabotage section) in Silent Storm, rather than regular Heer units.
3) If the UK is being invaded, I doubt they'll be sending as many troops (if any) to North Africa, especially if Japan's still rampaging through the Pacific. Even the Italians should be able to conquer North Africa without German help in this case, especially if they have Vichy French troops on their side. Then again...

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, the idea here is that German somehow forms an empire between 1933 and 1939 by negotiations and diplomacy instead of war, the reason simply is that Germany fears the Soviet Union and manages to get these states on their site to form an alliance against the Soviets (similar to what really happened, but instead of just Italy and Japan, it would be the Scandinavian states).

Good point about the Winter War actually, I did not thought about that. We could presume that this is what leads Germany to enter the war with Russia in the first place in this scenario. Keep in mind that with the Scandinavian countries plus Germany, this Alliance would have a huge army to use, the Wehrmacht had  18.2 Million soldiers at one point available now add what these other nations have and you have a very potent force.

We could then also assume that we have a combined Navy as well. To make the scenario of Operation Sealion a success, I thought that Germany does NOT focus on the construction of Battleships but instead puts it into Aircraft Carriers as well as Submarines and smaller Destroyers and landing crafts. It is just an idea, we could also just have it that Germany instead focuses on small scale raiding operations with special units.

[Ecthel013]

I'll take your point about the armies, but they're still going up against the Soviet Union, which has bigger armies than anyone else. If they're taking on France and Britain as well, they're going to be stretched thin. Even with larger armies, fighting a two-front war from the start would make it pretty difficult for them to knock France or the Soviets out quickly.

I highly doubt even their combined fleets and air forces would be able to secure a landing against the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, especially if they're trying to contain the Soviets and/or facing the French on top of that. The Kriegsmarine was gutted by the Treaty of Versailles, and ships take much longer and require more resources to build than rifles, aircraft or tanks, so they didn't exactly get far with rebuilding it by WW2. The Scandinavian navies weren't any bigger, either.

Well, I guess since it's alternate history, it could simply be handwaved that their forces are bigger/better equipped than they were historically. I do think raids like the current random encounters are more likely than an all-out invasion, though.