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Ken Levine talks Bioshock and X-COM


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Guest sheek
Well Alliance was going to be a squad-based FPS with a rich storyline, puzzles to solve and different jobs to be undertaken by the various members of the team you assemble for each mission. All this with you controlling one of your squad in combat directly and the movements of your other AI squad members by using the tactical map.

 

In most aspects that was way ahead if it's time. But think now about the Steam platform. Think about the hugely popular Left4Dead where up to four human players can play in co-op mode. Think a rich storyline andpleny of missions whilst enteringg combat alongside your buddies, and having to be strategic for fear of being mown down.

 

That would work IMO and, sadly, would do better in today's M

market. But I'd love to see it.

 

RIP X-COM Alliance and Stargate Sg-1 Alliance - two potentially great games that both tried this before bit never saw the light of day due to dev/publisher cock-ups.

 

I'd love to see an X-COM EU straight remake too, but can't see it happening. I'd also be slightly disappointed if it didn't bring anything new to the table to be honest.

Didn't you buy UFO: Extraterrestrials?

 

I really don't get all this moaning about nobody being interested in X-Com, especially when it is combined with fascination with Ken Levine, who we know is only interested in real-time and next-gen games. His priority is hyping up his project to maximize sales and satisfy his shareholders. We received a very good X-COM game a year ago and the people who made it went out of business releasing it.

 

With B-Man's 4.07 patch it's as close to X-COM as it's possible to get.

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I would prefer these "new" things to be just interface and information gathering improvements.

It seems every game that tried to make a remake bringing something "new", ended up destroying the complexity and atmosphere of the game(Extraterrestreals, anyone? I admit I haven't bought it, but I've tried it in a friend's computer. Fortunatelly, bman did a great job modding it, but it is still quite behind in terms of complexity and atmosphere, IMHO).

How exactly is ET 'behind' in terms of complexity? With the patch you mention it does everything X-COM does. The only major difference you could complain about is the premade maps. Other than that, the research, production, individual soldiers, stat increases, ranks, equipment customization, varied mission types, destructible environment, mind control, alien captures, attack options (aimed, auto etc), inventory use costs, grid-based tactical map, multiple levels/floors, multiple bases, base facilities... the list goes on, you name it, it's in there.

 

I agree it has a different 'atmosphere', I don't think it's the best game ever and I personally found the pre-made missions a major disappointment. But it's as close as you're ever going to get in this world. If you think anybody is ever going to make a more faithful sequel you're dreaming. If you think Ken Levine or any other big name studio is going to consider for a second the preferences fan-base you're completely delusional.

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How exactly is ET 'behind' in terms of complexity? With the patch you mention it does everything X-COM does. The only major difference you could complain about is the premade maps. Other than that, the research, production, individual soldiers, stat increases, ranks, equipment customization, varied mission types, destructible environment, mind control, alien captures, attack options (aimed, auto etc), inventory use costs, grid-based tactical map, multiple levels/floors, multiple bases, base facilities... the list goes on, you name it, it's in there.

 

I can't remember being able to hire scientists/engineers. 10 scientist/lab is not satisfying, living quarters haven't been modded(IIRC), so 1 is still enough for everyone. Fixed base locations and the aliens or you can have it(original X-COM have done much better than that!) and a number of other things I can remember now, but it did give the feeling of lacking.

 

I agree it has a different 'atmosphere', I don't think it's the best game ever and I personally found the pre-made missions a major disappointment. But it's as close as you're ever going to get in this world. If you think anybody is ever going to make a more faithful sequel you're dreaming. If you think Ken Levine or any other big name studio is going to consider for a second the preferences fan-base you're completely delusional.

 

Well, I have been waiting all these years, I can wait a bit longer. I have faith in BB and his game engine.

However, I do not say Extraterrestrials is a bad game(especially when modded), I just say it is a try with good intentions, but failing to achieve the purpose. When you try to make "exact remake", you should study the original better, IMHO.

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You haven't played B-Man's mod 4.07. It fixes the scientist engineer buying and living quarters and has done since the earliest versions (before the game was released in shops even).

 

The main complaint of the gaming rags, Gamespot, IGN etc (who would only have been interested in it if it was real-time anyway), apart from the "outdated graphics" was that it was too much like X-COM. Several articles called it plagiarism.

 

So no, you can wait another 20 years you won't get another commercial game like this.

 

And it does seem all you can come up with is that it lacks "feeling" / "atmosphere". If that's what's important, you can play X-Com Interceptor and the UFO series, or many other games, or write more fanfic.

 

I can't remember being able to hire scientists/engineers. 10 scientist/lab is not satisfying, living quarters haven't been modded(IIRC), so 1 is still enough for everyone. Fixed base locations and the aliens or you can have it(original X-COM have done much better than that!) and a number of other things I can remember now, but it did give the feeling of lacking.

 

 

 

Well, I have been waiting all these years, I can wait a bit longer. I have faith in BB and his game engine.

However, I do not say Extraterrestrials is a bad game(especially when modded), I just say it is a try with good intentions, but failing to achieve the purpose. When you try to make "exact remake", you should study the original better, IMHO.

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Especially considering that the one studio that tried to make a game that appealed to the fan-base went bankrupt, and is called a failure but most of the mainstream. The fan-base obviously didn't buy it in sufficient numbers. Why on earth do you think Ken Levine or anybody else, after reading that would even consider trying?
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Especially considering that the one studio that tried to make a game that appealed to the fan-base went bankrupt, and is called a failure but most of the mainstream. The fan-base obviously didn't buy it in sufficient numbers. Why on earth do you think Ken Levine or anybody else, after reading that would even consider trying?

 

It is interesting that you are counting on the work of the community to justify the sloppiness of a game design.

 

Anyway, as BB has already said, there is no point in making a "straight" remake.

 

What I said was, if you going to make it, you should make it right. The game that the people actually bought was poor.

The game results after bman's and the rest of the community's work is good(for as much as I have played).

It is amazing to me, however, how a game made more than 15 years ago, is still better than any candidate on its field. I would expect today's games to be able to keep the level of complexity XCOM managed to have, with half an effort....Yet, it seems noone is able to "properly" do this.

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Mythos Games was an established developer with a series of games, they had experienced programmers and artists, they had funds and good, solid publisher (Microprose). This was also the day when most gamers had an IQ above 115 and turn-based strategy games were mainstream. You are not going to sell an X-COM game in today's market and compete, when most people are more interested in the next Halo or the Sims or Fable 2, and the media only hypes what's popular.

 

Chaos Concepts were a brand new company who had never worked on another game, with programmers and designers straight out of college. The producer was an X-COM fan straight out of college who put his personal funds into it. They had no PR team, the only guy they had to update us on the forum was the art/music designer who was the only one who spoke good English.

 

Their 'publisher' was that bunch of incompetent bloodsuckers who call themselves Paradox Interactive.

 

It's a miracle the game came out at all.

 

It is interesting that you are counting on the work of the community to justify the sloppiness of a game design.

 

Anyway, as BB has already said, there is no point in making a "straight" remake.

 

What I said was, if you going to make it, you should make it right. The game that the people actually bought was poor.

The game results after bman's and the rest of the community's work is good(for as much as I have played).

It is amazing to me, however, how a game made more than 15 years ago, is still better than any candidate on its field. I would expect today's games to be able to keep the level of complexity XCOM managed to have, with half an effort....Yet, it seems noone is able to "properly" do this.

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No offense, but Microprose wasn't all that great to the series. Mythos wanted to do something new after the first game but Microprose wanted a quick sequel within a very short space of time - hence TFTD. Microprose also apparently rushed Mythos into releasing Apocalypse early so some of re more interesting elements never made it into the game at all.

 

So over a decade later things are pretty much the same with publishers in general I'm afraid!

 

That X-COM is now in the hands of a studio that isn't about to go bankrupt and has ample time and money to devote to a project is only a good thing. After all, if it were still with Infogrames we'd have no hope whatsoever.

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No offense, but Microprose wasn't all that great to the series. Mythos wanted to do something new after the first game but Microprose wanted a quick sequel within a very short space of time - hence TFTD. Microprose also apparently rushed Mythos into releasing Apocalypse early so some of re more interesting elements never made it into the game at all.

 

So over a decade later things are pretty much the same with publishers in general I'm afraid!

 

That X-COM is now in the hands of a studio that isn't about to go bankrupt and has ample time and money to devote to a project is only a good thing. After all, if it were still with Infogrames we'd have no hope whatsoever.

True but I never said Microprose were brilliant, just that they were an established company. Thus the game could be promoted, distributed etc which is essential. Paradox didn't do anything for ET. I am not expecting any good surprises from Take2 though I suppose it could be worse.

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By the way, did anyone notice how he didn't say anything about 2K Australia? Could be unintentional, of course.

 

Also, the 2K forums (too lazy to link) have an ad for beta testers for an upcoming MMO, as yet unannounced. Megaprimus online? I remember doing an April Fools joke about that. :laugh: One which I managed to fool myself with a few times. I guess I'm more convincing than I thought.

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