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End of Game [EXTREME SPOILERS]


Pete

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Objective 1: sweep and clear the building to the north

Objective 2: sweep and clear the building to the west

Objective 3: sweep and clear the building to the north west.

 

Which in short is:

O1: Kill aliens there

O2: Kill aliens there

O3: Kill aliens there

 

So X:EU

 

Soldier 1: Check corner there

Soldier 2: Back him up

 

Soldier 3: Check corner over there

Soldier 4: Climb that truck and be our guardian angel.

 

Soldier 5: Run to that bush.

Soldier 6: Go behind that truck.

 

See? Objectives.

 

I now focus on the tactics of how to breach each building without getting my squads killed.

 

Again - Objectives.

 

 

Here we are talking about two subtly different things.

 

Because we have 2 different games that it was stated from the beginning that they will not be similar.

 

The point being that X:EU has less strategy than U:EU.

 

Right - so I go with my Skyranger full - what strategy should I use hmmm - let's see shoot everything on sight.

 

In X:Eu in order to get a kill I need to plan my moves ahead, should I use this cover or that cover - what if there is alien that I don't see and he is in overwatch. Will I be flanked If I move there? Or If I flank him, will I be save from retaliation fire? Right no strategy involved.

 

See above: there is no argument that X:EU has simplified the mechanics.

 

Right see above too - very simple game that people even lose on EASY....

 

 

I don't see it, could you expand on your thoughts here?

 

In U:EU you just bulid some facilites and you didn't care. Here you are limited with resources, you rely on what you scavange. You need that satelite coverage but in order to do that you must build another satelite relay. The trick is - you don't have enough power. You question yourself:

 

A) Should I build that simple power generator or

B) Maybe I should invest little more and get that steam vent one floor below.

 

or other situation. You don't have enough engineers for something.

 

A) Should I build workshop to get new engineers?

B) Maybe I should build something else and get that engineers on next possible mission.

 

There is also dilema how to expand the base to use that adjacency bonus for certain buildings.

 

*blinks* Yeah, sure TFTD was broken, and we have things to fix that, but you're complaining about there being a research tree in U:EU?

 

I wouldn't say broken but different - slightly harder (though there was tech tree bugs that were ocasionally fixed by patches or comunity mods)

 

My point, which you seem to have misunderstood, was that in UFO:EU if I could somehow source the money - perhaps by selling of the hundreds of heavy plasma rifles that seemed to always accumulate

 

Making you totally independat of council, which was very strange that you could be disbanded even if you were the richest organisation in the world.

 

- I could build as many labs and hire as many scientists as I wished, regardless of what stage of game I was at, and by doing so have a seriously fast research department

 

So who is holding you back to build as many laboratories as you want ? Oh before you say money, there was a money problem in the original too. Until you researched that laser cannons.

 

In the new game I am much more limited in the extent to which I can choose to prioritise research as I largely have to rely on the few I get given each month.

 

You can build laboratories to get more scientist. But scientists here are less valuble than engineers. And to get decent research you don't need the horde of scientists. 30 is enough + if you go through the bonueses with alien interogation you should have research every few days.

 

I've finished my game with something close to 90 scientists.

 

Anyway, to restate my point lest I get off track: X-com EU has less strategic elements than UFO: EU, and I haven't seen anything sufficient to refute this.

 

Actually it's the other way round.

 

Also: Having completed the new game I found the ending to be kinda disappointing. Why wasn't my skyranger

shot out of the air? Did the aliens want it there? If so, why try to kill my squad? It doesn't make sense!

 

Because aliens wanted the "New One" to come to them so they could "persuade" him to join their forces.

They wanted to try to kill to make sure that it is their goal they are seeking. Strong Body and Strong mind.

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In X:Eu in order to get a kill I need to plan my moves ahead, should I use this cover or that cover - what if there is alien that I don't see and he is in overwatch. Will I be flanked If I move there? Or If I flank him, will I be save from retaliation fire? Right no strategy involved.

 

So just like the original then, but with super soldiers, weaker enemies and cover mechanics...

 

You can build laboratories to get more scientist. But scientists here are less valuble than engineers. And to get decent research you don't need the horde of scientists. 30 is enough + if you go through the bonueses with alien interogation you should have research every few days.

 

Building labs doesn't give you more scientists, best way to get them is building satellites and waiting for the council report. Not that you need them anyway, there's nothing much worth researching.

 

I'm not going to get bogged down in this topic. If you want to think that XCOM is a strategy game of the same calibre as the original then you do that but you couldn't be more wrong and the only person you're convincing is yourself...

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Building labs (and workshops) does give you more scientists (or engineers), at least is does on normal. Not checked in classic as I've not been able to build any.

 

There's little point debating with you veteran, seeing as you are so unwilling to listen to other people's points of view. I don't think you really understand what strategy means either, and to claim the new game is somehow less tactically astute as the original clearly shows you struggle with that concept too.

 

Considering you appear to hate every thing about this game I'm kind of surprised you're still playing it.

 

For what it is worth I do think panic management is a little unbalanced - it's a little bit too easy to increase it compared to decreasing it, certainly in classic. Some of that stems from the Random Number Generator god, which when he has decided he's going to kick you in the nuts, well he really kicks you in the nuts! He has a name in Blood bowl, he's called nuffle. Clearly his domain is spreading :-/

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Can't everyone just agree to disagree? Because I'm going to get annoyed with the next one of you who isn't polite to the rest.

 

Everyone has their own points of view. Everyone sees the world and this game in a slightly different way.

 

Deal with it, kiss and make up.

 

Whether it be the original or the new game it's just a game.

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*sighs* Alright Pete. We're sorry.

 

I think the problem is that we are connoisseurs in the xkcd sense - we'd have strong and differing opinions about images of some guy eating a sandwich given enough time. While both games are good they are good in different ways, and we get annoyed when people don't see that difference. But yes, agree to disagree.

 

On a lighter note:

Some of that stems from the Random Number Generator god, which when he has decided he's going to kick you in the nuts, well he really kicks you in the nuts! He has a name in Blood bowl, he's called nuffle. Clearly his domain is spreading :-/

*chuckle* Blood bowl! That takes me back. Hey, Sorbicol, do you reckon the dev's were Games Workshop fans? ;)

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but with super soldiers, weaker enemies

 

Super soilders - even colonel can panic, miss, be mind controled, be flanked and critted for 15 dmg. They are not immortal while in sadomaizer in original you could die from 1 hit or survive 100.

 

Weaker enemies - If they are weak - how come many strugle to not to lose soldiers ?

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Ah didn't mean to offend, I'm quite happy for other people to disagree with me ;)

 

Alan, Cyanide's PC version of Bloodbowl frequently gets criticised for seeming non random random number generation (you fail a pass at 95% while you opponent keeps completing 5% chance passes, that type of thing. A lot of people forget that Random number generation also means random distribution too, nothing wrong with hitting a bunch of 1s when the computer is rolling 6s, but it doesn't half make the game look like it's screwing you over!

 

It's the problem with RNG systems, most people don't really understand what they are all about.

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Sorbicol, I hadn't really noticed that, probably because when I was playing the PC version of Blood Bowl I was lost in nostalgia for the original table top version. I completely get what you were saying about random distributions though; I work with stats alot and know that you get clusters even in uniform random distributions. After all, the uniformity is talking about the generating distribution, not the arbitrary samples you take from it.

 

Despite that, I will now be blaming nuffle whenever shit happens while playing x-com... such as the unfortunately close pair of chryssalids which ate half my squad just now in my current ironman game. *grumble grumble* ;)

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Did you get the achievement ? If not there is more.

 

Yeah chryssalids on classic are just an utter nightmare. I just go trigger happy with my heavies now, any collateral damage can be happy they didn't become zombies

 

If you are afraid of Chrysalids then what you say about Sectopods ? If you let them fire they realy create havoc :D

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Sectopods have some fun attacks that I kept on forgetting about and getting lots of people badly injured on Normal. I don't fancy my chances on Classic.

 

The fact that there are multiple of them in the very last mission worries me for a Classic playthrough ;)

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Did you get the achievement ? If not there is more.

 

Silencer is right, if you got the Edison achievement then you researched everything, if not you missed some! For me I was one off as I needed to interrogate a floater and they simply stop coming later in the game! I'm trying again for that achievement in my easy game and going for the other one too that you get for taking one soldier on EVERY mission. It's taking quite some time as I have to be super careful with her but it's on easy so not too bad ;)

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Make sure you start in a different location mate as you need to win a game in each of the five for another achievement ;) For the fusion weapons you need to do a battleship mission which is easy enough by reloading your other game but floaters (in my experience) are gone for good now!
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Whee! Won the game in October on Classic.

 

Never saw a battleship all game, though. And just barely managed to scrape together a crack team of four colonels, a major and a captain for the final mission, the rest of my soldiers were squaddies or worse. :)

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Another old timer, checkin' in. =]

 

My final mission on first playthrough on Normal, had my crack team of Colonels: two Assaults with Alloy Cannons (Boomer from Germany and Cowboy from Scotland), two Snipers with Plasma Sniper Rifles (Deadbolt who's been Gollop'd, and Pharoh both from Germany), a Heavy with Heavy Plasma (Nuke... also from Germany. Gee, I didn't realise my top team was 2/3 German!) and a Support with Plasma Rifle (Stacks from South Africa). They stand in a tight formation just inside the corridor leading to the final room. I get Nuke to activate Inspiration to give everyone a Will boost, and then I send in Stacks as far in to the room as possible with Ghost activated. Cue unskippable and inaudible movie (I wonder if Uber Ethereal and Bane from Dark Knight Rises are buddies?). Massive WTF moment, as my support is now completely flanked. And at this point in time, all I know is that four new units have appeared behind him, given away by the purple puff of smoke one of which is an Elite who is standing right behind Stacks.

 

I Ghost and move my Assaults to the left and right wings to try and flank the enemy, having them dash as far as possible along the far walls before taking cover. Second WTF moment as the rest of the room is revealed, I now see there are two more Ethereals and another Elite Muton. I move Deadbolt forward to the left balcony so I can MC the Elite Muton standing in front of the left ramp next to Stacks (hehe, 136 Will makes short work of those puny Elites). I get Pharoh to Headshot the remaining Elite, ending my turn. To my amusement, Uber Ethereal floats on down from his balcony next to the MC'd Elite, as does the Ethereal on the right wing. Well, the amusement stopped when Uber tries to MC Deadbolt from all the way across the room... (now I think about it though, if I could MC the Elite, then Uber could MC me) but it fails! Haha, eat my 136 Will! At this point, I'm super glad I activated Inspire before entering the chamber. Now both remaining Ethereals do their Psi Phing and go on to kill the Elite. Well, no chip off my shoulder, that's one less enemy to take care of.

 

My turn starts, and Stacks is revealed. I get Nuke to shoot a rocket in the middle of the room to try and splash some damage, but I must have put the cursor on the wrong level or something since it looked like it went right in the middle of the Ethereals, but no damage is dealt to anyone. I put Boomer, who took the left flank, into Ghost mode, activate Run&Gun, and make a dash almost right next to the Ethereal still standing in the left wing (one tile away to protect him from splash damage on Ethereal's death). Double shot with Alloy cannon, +50% crit damage from Run&Gun and +100% crit chance with Ghost should make short work of the Ethreal, right? Damn damage reflect on first shot! Left side Ethereal is left with 5 HP. Similar move by Cowboy on the Ethereal on the right luckily takes him out. Pharoh snipes at the Ethereal on the left, which takes him out, before Double Tapping on Uber, who gets a nasty reflect back. Deadbolt takes two shots at Uber, the Headshot gets through but the remaining shot reflects back at her leaving Uber on 6 HP. Now left with one remaining unit with Action Points left, Stacks activates Ghost for the 100% crit chance, he turns around and runs up almost next to Uber. One shot is 76% chance of hitting, with 100% chance of crit. I pray, and hit the 1 key to tell Stacks to shoot with the last remaining Action Point... and the shot lands!

 

I tell you, while EU'12 is a lot more streamlined and simplified compared to the originals and seems very buggy (my overall sentiments are very similar to Vet and Alan), you still have the essence of the games. It's great, looking forward to my second play through on either Normal Ironman or Classic regular.

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So there's me whining about later missions and the final mission being a bit tricky on my first playthrough - I'm now playing on Classic, which is quite simply brutal, but I did read that the Blaster Launcher is available somewhere later in the game.

 

Obviously my first playthrough was a bit rushed, so I look forward to entering the final mission again at some point with the right tools for the job this time, instead of light plasma rifles and pea-shooters ;)

 

Has anyone gone into the final mission with a Blaster Launcher? Did it help?

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I did. If Heavy could fire rocket and move it would be useful. The range of rockets/blaster launcher is not that great. The damage of Blaster Launcher is 9 points If you would get that perk that increases damage I think you could do better but here you have a choice. Either 2 shots for 9 that in summary should be better than 1 shot that does 15 (I think). Your still best option is sniper with double tap and plasma sniper to the face of Uber Etheral. Or assaults with Run&Gun + Double Shot + Alloy Cannon to the face and of course Ghost Armour.
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