Not too long ago, a law was approved that banned burning the American Flag within the United States. Half of this country is relieved that their flag will no longer be hurt. The other half is outraged and they belief their civil rights have once again been trampled on.

Before I go in-depth with my own opinion, what does everyone else think? Regardless if you're American that is... I know there are places on this planet that if you speak out against your government in even the slightest way, you are immediately silenced. The United States is one of only a few places where such a thing is allowed.

Does anyone see this as a step in the direction of America turning into such a country? Since President Bush's first term, there's been quite a take down on public protest. Is this just one more restriction being placed on the public?

Flag burning is widely seen as dishonoring the flag, but others see it as honoring what the flag stands for. What's the opinions here?

There are quite a few European countries where this is allowed at least... The prime minister of Norway is a spineless coward, so there!


I think that first of all, we can all agree that no laws is no good. We need some guidelines on what is acceptable behaviour, and I think most people agree on the majority of laws. There should be a law against driving like a madman - what people disagree on is the punishment. There should be a law against killing people - again what people disagree on is the punishment and it's methods. Feel free to disagree, as I only state what I believe to be true.

With this established, the next question is where to draw the line. Should we have laws against throwing garbage on the street? Burning the flag? Spitting on the sidewalk? Well, hard to say. Too many laws restrict people's freedom, while too few doesn't restrict it enough. In my opinion, as long as the law is logical, I am all for it. Should we throw garbage on the street? No! Should we burn our flag? No! Laws against that is fine. But laws against spitting on the street? I think we can manage without that. It is taking it too far, as spit on the street doesn't really do any harm.

I think most people agree that streets filled up with garbage is a bad thing. Regarding the flag, some might see burning it as some sort of tribute. But if you check around, I am fairly confident most people view is as a sign of disrespect, and thus it's fine with a law against it.

In general, I think we have too many rights these days. If I were in charge, you can be sure I would clench the streets of beggars, drunks and drug addicts. Retarded Norwegian laws state that you can't force people away from slowly destroying their lives. It's illegal to kill yourself, but doing it slowly with drugs is fine. Let's not worry about ALL the people around these - be that mothers, sons or brothers - because we have to look out for people's "rights". This whole thing disgusts me! If there are fairly clear evidence of you destroying your life (like being found on the street with a needle in your arm repeatedly), you should be forced into rehab. Then you should be held there until you're through, or die from old age or a damaged body.

The mere fact tthat you can say that gives me respect for the prime minister of Norway... Whoever HE is.

Flag burning? I don't see why not. The flag represents the country, and if you wanna protest peacefully, it's an obvious message to use.

I don't like the idea of people worshipping a flag to the point where they would ban you from setting fire to some cloth and dye. It's just a symbol. And if you don't have the freedom to mess with that which (at some point) was considered the symbol of freedom, I think that says a lot about what that flag represents...

I know there was a furore over this initially, but I thought it was legal for Americans to burn their flag? Wasn't there a Supreme Court decision or something?
I didn't know it had been made illegal again.
As BB says, it's just a symbol. People shouldn't get too fixated on it.

@Slaughter: There's no way you can FORCE someone into rehab, sadly. They have to want to quit, otherwise they will just pick up the habit again.

I'm not talking keeping them there for two weeks and sending them back to the people they wasted their lives with to begin with... But I'm at work now, so I have no time to get into it.

Some people want to destroy themselves, however unpleasant it may be. I don't think anyone has the right to decide what another human being should be doing, or interfere in what they have chosen to do, as long as it's not hurting others.
Ultimately, I think we're only responsible to ourselves for our actions.

Mmmm, keep in mind that drug addicts aren't only hurting themselves. And while people do have the right to make their own decisions, we don't tend to give that right to minors, on the basis that they lack the experience and mental complexity to understand what they're doing... But... Isn't a drug addict in a similar situation?

Drug addicts are usually adults, and usually capable of deciding their own fate. In my post above, I meant 'hurt' as in physical hurt, as there's nothing you can do to stop someone hurting another person emotionally/mentally. I realise that the sort of thing in my post above is an ideal, and that the real world forces us to put strictures on members of society, because we're not all nice people.
But drug addicts are just unfortunate. They're not weak, or mentally unbalanced. For most, life is just too shit to put up with straight.

There is a very high rate of unemployment in South Wales after the coal mines closed down. It is not easy to get work in a different area because employers want someone who lives locally and can start immediatly. Many young people have come to see life as being inherently futile, so they tend to turn to drug and alcohol abuse, which just makes things worse. I cannot see the situation getting better unless there is some pretty major economic restructuring.

On the other end of the scale, someone who used to work in the financial centre of London once told me that many young men who work there regularly take cocaine as a stimulant to cope with the stress of their jobs. It is a bit worrying when you are told that your country's economy is in the hands of a group of drug addicts.

I remember hearing about some research about the German governemnt, taking swabs of surfaces in their toilets. 80% had traces of cocaine on them! I think that's brilliant.

@BB: Well said! My thoughts exactly.

@FA: If they wanted to destroy themselves, couldn't they just do the decent thing and jump off a cliff? Walking around our cities like zombies begging isn't a desire to destroy themselves, it's a scream for help. Quite a few of them were no more than kids when they got involved with the wrong people and ended up as addicts. Problem is that the "help" they receive now are two weeks of VOLUNTEER rehab and straight back to the old crew.

@AT: Yeah, the unemployment is probably one of many reasons people start. We don't really have an issue with this in Norway at present, but it's been a problem before.

I see your point, Slaughter, but sometimes it isn't about destroying themselves, sometimes it's about escapism, and it goes too far. What else can you do? Being an addict isn't a crime. Drugs aren't the issue, because if it was, alcohol would have been banned by now (approx 5,000 deaths in the UK alone). Drug abuse is just a symptom of the underlying problems.

Sure, there are many sides to this, but I am fairly confident that a more...aggressive rehab sort of program could do some good. And I sincerely believe that the ones that have gone "over the edge" should be treated the way BB mentioned - like minors.

We're supposed to be born free, aren't we? We're certainly not if someone can take away our rights, for whatever reason.

It is well known that a lot of drug addicts resort to crime to fund their addiction. The standard solution in Britain is to lock them up in prison for a few months. Trouble is, they are usually still drug addicts when they are released. I would like to see more rehab programmes in prisons.

It would cost money to do, but there would be a long term saving, both for the government and society, as reoffending rates would drop.

Just a thought: if a person does not have the right to mistreat his body with drugs, what about when a poor diet leads to obesity? I've got this vision of John Prescott being forced to go jogging at bayonet point

Exactly. What are we going to do, round up everyone from McDonalds and have them run to work every day?
Hey, not a bad idea actually...

I am undecided on what to do with drug addicts...

I once listened in on a conversation that involved this somewhere. Two people, debating the two extremes.

The first point was making all drugs perfectly legal and let people kill themselves, so long as they don't hurt anyone else. In doing so, crime syndicates and drug dealers no longer will make their money, as the black market for narcotics would no longer exist, and a bag of weed can be purchased at your local market. People could buy heroine and kill themselves if they pleased, thusly ridding our world of one more idiot.

The discussed end result was that anyone that chose to kill themself with drugs would have the right to, and would die as the rest of the more mature world would move on without them cluttering up our lives. Not only that, established drug networks, ranging from the schmoe that grows weed in his basement to powerful Drug Cartels, would lose business utterly and completely. Not only that... The money gained from selling the drugs alone would really do a number on American economy.

The second point was the complete opposite. Severely increase the punishment for drug use/possession and take a greater offensive when one is tested positive in a drug test. Also, rehab would force people to stay, much like a ward or prison. This is done in order to create a greater deterrant for drug crimes.

The result they discussed, was that more people would be inclined to find and/or use narcotic elements for fear of dire consequences. (40 years in prison was discussed by the guys I heard talking about it... Although I feel that's extreme.) The more severe deterent would make people too afraid to even look at a bag of weed. And the dealers that be would lose their profits at a steady rate.

I personally can see a greater logic in the former idea, to be honest. But at the same time, I feel that there just may be an incredible swell of death and addiction before people ever started to learn. The latter looks like an extremely slow process, not likely reaching some people, as most whom use drugs are not likely thinking of any consequences enough to be afraid of any...

Well, I was gonna make a final point after all this, but it seems that in recalling that memory there... I forgot it completely. >_<

All this talk about free. Society have decided that anyone can't go around doing anything for a good reason. We can't go around killing anyone we like, and I think most of us agree that is a good thing. Why should we be allowed to drug ourselves to death? I'd sooner allow suicide than that! And for the record, I'm not talking rounding up everyone that ever smoked pot. I'm talking picking up the ones that are "over the edge".

As for McUgly, that WOULD be a nice idea! Seriously though, I think there should be more gym in school. In fact, an ideal workplace the way I see it would start of every day with an hour of exercise. Not that the employers would want to spend money on that, but in quite a few businesses I think the gain in clear minds would be worth the expense of the gym. Realistically though, more gym in school. And from what I've seen in the telly, you UKers need to do something with the food you serve! Do you really feed your kids that junk, or have I only seen the extremes?

@SB: Legalizing drugs...look at alcohol, and the expenses society have with it, and you'll see just about how effective it would be.

Indeed, I've noticed that locations such as Italy, which has legalized alcohol completely, has statistically significantly less alcohol abuse and therefore much less drunken bums.

Usage would spike, and then decline. Look at Prohibition.

As for freedom, are we free to kill ourselves? Yes, we are. So we should be free to do anything short of that, logically.
Look at it this way. You can go out and drink. But alcohol is a poison. It kills brain cells and damages the liver. But it's legal. It's legal to drink so much, in fact, that you die.
Whereas illegal drugs (which thanks to the War on Drugs, are cheaper and a lot more pure), some of which don't damage you, or damage you a lot less than alcohol or nicotine, have this stigma associated with them, like being an alcoholic or smoking sixty a day is any less shameful than using cocaine or heroin.
If you shove people into rehab against their will, they'll resent the treatment, and they'll go right back to drugs as soon as they get out, surely?